Freebenkramer.com?

[DAREDEVIL]

They jack convenience stores and beat/rob weaker people like kids and elderly. They break car windows and steal your stuff. They drag their families down with them, soaking from relatives that can't bear to see their spouses/children suffer.

Chris,

You hit it on the head with that post above. Drugs cost money, addicts need and like to get high, addicts can't hold a job very well, so where does this money come from? The answer is posted above. The emotional pain that the addicts cause family, friends, loved ones can not be measured in dollars.

Legalized heroin or coke/crack, never, that would be just f*cking stupid! Weed maybe, today's weed seems to be too high powered/potent. Keep in mind DUI or BUI still applies, drugs and or alcohol can lead to a conviction for driving under the influence, so the argument of having all these drugged-out people on the road is not totally accurate.

There are many long-term addicts out there, meaning addicts that have been around for twenty plus years, breaking the cycle of addiction is the key. Church, NA, AA, and counseling seems to be effective for some. The world would be a much better place when and if addicts get clean. A light goes on in inside the addict/alocoholic's head/mind, and until that light does, he or she will live in darkness/addiction. That light is the desire to change, regardless of how unfamilar and difficult it may be for the alcoholic/addict. When the pain is great enough that is when the addict/alcoholic is ripe for change. Sometimes that light does not get to go off, then death or jail is the next consequence.

Let's get back to the Ben Kramer saga, it is always interesting to hear the opinions of that case, and theory, and outcome.

PS -- if anyone on this board that has a loved one, friend, or whoever, that needs help for addiction, e-mail me, and I can help guide/refer you and the addict/alcoholic that wants help to the right places for treatment, even if they do not have healthcare. I don't mind helping people who actually want help (not court ordered, bucking the system help).

Stephen

Ok,,,since this thread is about Ben,,i thought we are talking about weed,,,not about crack or coke.

I agree on the rest.

 

[Smarty]

Ok,,,since this thread is about Ben,,i thought we are talking about weed,,,not about crack or coke.

I agree on the rest.

A drug is a drug, addiction does not discriminate. I was responding primarily to Chris's post, which I thought was excellent.

To address the weed issue you brought up: Smuggling coke, weed, heroin, doesn't matter what the drug is, it is still a crime.

 

[DAREDEVIL]

A drug is a drug, addiction does not discriminate. I was responding primarily to Chris's post, which I thought was excellent.

To address the weed issue you brought up: Smuggling coke, weed, heroin, doesn't matter what the drug is, it is still a crime.

I agree,,,what i ment is legalise it (the weed) and sell it thru the goverment,,use that money and help the USA !!!!!!

The goverment is burning the weed and that costs money ,,,how stupid is that.

Why is america 50 years behind with everything ???
Why do americans don't use there common sence ???
Why do we have more chiefs then indians???

To many questions ,,so little answers.:USA:

 

[Chris]

Actually, the thread was about releasing a top-echelon illegal drug importer, money launderer and convicted murderer from prison via a reduction in his mandatory life sentence.

The question yet answered? Why?

What has Ben Kramer done to deserve this act of charity? Has there been some expression of remorse? An act of contrition? Some life-changing experience that caused him to find a purpose in life that's led him to benefit his fallow man, if only in the confines of the prison?

Ben was no industry icon. All he did was finance a project he thought was "cool". He owned a toy. He showed up on race day and turned the wheel, then stuck around for the party. Bobby dragged more than a few guys that could foot the bill around a race course- quite successfully. Ben was just one.

 

[cashbrain]

To address the weed issue you brought up: Smuggling coke, weed, heroin, doesn't matter what the drug is, it is still a crime.

I don't think that is in contention...

 

[cashbrain]

Actually, the thread was about releasing a top-echelon illegal drug importer, money launderer and convicted murderer from prison via a reduction in his mandatory life sentence.

The question yet answered? Why?

What has Ben Kramer done to deserve this act of charity? Has there been some expression of remorse? An act of contrition? Some life-changing experience that caused him to find a purpose in life that's led him to benefit his fallow man, if only in the confines of the prison?

Ben was no industry icon. All he did was finance a project he thought was "cool". He owned a toy. He showed up on race day and turned the wheel, then stuck around for the party. Bobby dragged more than a few guys that could foot the bill around a race course- quite successfully. Ben was just one.

Bobby Young murdered Aronow and he was released from prison and then went back in for an unrelated drug possession charge,where he died.

 

[Chris]

I agree,,,what i ment is legalise it (the weed) and sell it thru the goverment,,use that money and help the USA !!!!!!

The goverment is burning the weed and that costs money ,,,how stupid is that.

:

One more time.

Drugs provide zero positive social benefit. (social, like societal, not an improvement to your social life).

Drugs are incontrovertably linked to the commission of both violent and non-violent crime.

Drugs ruin lives. They remove people from their reality. People in these positions need to remain in their reality and endeavor to remove themselves from whatever morass they're trapped in and find a life, not hide from one.

People steal and kill to get the money for drugs. That's bad for the rest of us.

Parents that use drugs typically doom their children to a life of drug use. And the cycle perpetuates.

The money collected wouldn't cover the postage on the government aid checks we'd be sending out to these people sitting around stoned all day. Drugs are a one-trick pony. They don't make you smarter. They don't make you more attractive. They make you feel better. And they make you feel better artificially. They stimulate the same chemical processes that your body naturally experiences from actual, real-world positive experiences. Like hitting a home run, crafting a sculpture, inventing a beneficial device and so on. What drugs do is give you that feeling without the effort. And when they wear off, you're left with a $hitty life where you've accomplished nothing. So then you have to pay for that experience you just had by feeling poorly- and having to face the fact that you really haven't done anything. So to make it go away, you get high again. But unless you stay high, that mean old reality keeps coming back. And the high becomes your normal and you need that warm feeling back again, so you move up the ladder to something else. Or you realize that one chemical is working, so there must be others that work too.

You want to be high? Take some dying kids and their parents for a boat ride next Saturday. Accomplish something. Sell that raceboat that's all about nothing other than your own personal pleasure and benefits no one other than yourself and get something that you can fit a half-dozen people in to. Then enjoy the smile you put on the face of a little girl that's lived her entire life with a massive birth defect, or a teenage by that's known he's going to die for a few years now, but also knows it's going to take a number of very painful years before the end comes. or the father that helps you lift that limp body into your boat that, despite being a man, knows he helpless to do anything for his own child.
Get high on that.

 

[Chris]

Bobby Young murdered Aronow and he was released from prison and then went back in for an unrelated drug possession charge,where he died.

Benjamin Barry Kramer was convicted and incarcerated for the crime after pleading no contest to the charge. The rest is unimportant.

 

[cashbrain]

Ben was not incarcerated for the murder..he was incarcerated for money laundering. Any of the other charges came later...and for a specific reason.

 

[Comanche3Six]

Greg Smith, Detective (Retired), Metro-Dade Police Department, Miami, Florida.
Lead investigator in the Aronow Case. Call him with your questions.

 

[Chris]

Ben is presently incarcerated for the murder. It's a matter of public record.

 

[MikeyFIN]

Yup, La Familia do it all the time and they just got busted... Largest organized drug cartel in history.... Off to the pokey they go!!:seeya:

Known is the Key word..
The Balkans as we speak control the English Spain and French drug cartels with harder than military discipline.

And some Drug runners are also backed by some regimes nowadays...
Thenagain some fight back.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4TCqcWkDM0

 

[cashbrain]

Have you read his case? Ben was NOT arrested or incarcerated for Aronow's murder. Bobby Young was.

 

[Chris]

Jack- this is a yes or no question...

Was Ben Kramer found guilty for the murder of Don Aronow?

 

[cashbrain]

Ben pleaded"no contest", so the answer is no.
Again, Bobby Young shot Aronow...and was arrested,convicted for the murder.
Ben was arrested for importing Marijuana and money laundering moving money thru Lichtenstein to the Bicycle Club in LA.

You seem to think that the entire case was about Aronow's murder and the No contest plea was not charged until Ben was in jail for almost 2 years.
I have read the case file...many times and sat with Ben. What people make summaries about is not substanitive.

 

[Chris]

Jack- you are wrong.

Ben plead no contest, was found guilty and sentenced. Back up a few pages and read about nolo pleas.

Don't confuse "convicted for the murder of..." and "...shot DA". Ben was convicted of the murder. In Florida, as in most states, paying another to murder someone is the exact same thing a shooting them yourself.

Ben Kramer chose to not dispute the facts presented in evidence that he was complicit in the execution murder of Don Aronow. He stood before a judge and openly declared "I do not dispute the facts presented to this court regarding my involvement in the murder of Don Aronow". He was subsequently found guilty and convicted.

 

[cashbrain]

Can you tell me why Ben would want to kill Aronow?

 

[cashbrain]

Jack- you are wrong.

Ben plead no contest, was found guilty and sentenced. Back up a few pages and read about nolo pleas.

Don't confuse "convicted for the murder of..." and "...shot DA". Ben was convicted of the murder. In Florida, as in most states, paying another to murder someone is the exact same thing a shooting them yourself.

Ben Kramer chose to not dispute the facts presented in evidence that he was complicit in the execution murder of Don Aronow. He stood before a judge and openly declared "I do not dispute the facts presented to this court regarding my involvement in the murder of Don Aronow". He was subsequently found guilty and convicted.

He had no choice....

 

[Smarty]

Go to Westlaw (it costs $$$) and look up the disposition of case. I can help you with that, I will no longer respresent criminals..

The plea is one thing, the indictment is really what he is accused of, and Ben Kramer and his attorney(s) have all the discovery (the evidence that the Prosecutor has available), if you had access to the discovery that would really fill in the blanks and tell whole side of the story/history from the State's perspective.

Will anyone know the whole story, never, just Ben Kramer, God, and the people he did business with regarding the the narcotic transactions. Alot of good and interesting posts in this thread, it seems to have touched a nerve.

 

[TCEd]

I consider Kramer an evil person that uses to his advantage anyone he's in contact with. I also find it odd that people attempt to rationalize his crimes by comparing them to other convicts/ex-convicts.
Drugs kill. Kramer probably is the root cause of many deaths other than Aranow.