Freebenkramer.com?

[Geronimo36]

.If he was out imagine the threads then.

Good point!!! then maybe some of the folks who support him can go into business with him and conduct themselves the same way he did, if they don't do it already....:leaving:

 

[MikeyFIN]

you mean get busted

 

[Expensive Date]

Good point!!! then maybe some of the folks who support him can go into business with him and conduct themselves the same way he did, if they don't do it already....:leaving:

Ben and Freds Marine parts.

 

[Smarty]

Ben and Freds Marine parts.

Now that is funny sh*t, good one!:sifone:

 

[cashbrain]

He had a choice, he entered into his plea, freely and voluntarily, not under duress or coercion, he was not under the influence of alcohol or drugs, and did so with the consent and advice of his attorney. Those words, or nearly identical words would be on the record at sentencing, that is standard stuff. I must disagree, he had a choice, goto trial or take the plea. All criminal cases fall into this slot, he is not an exception.

Unfortunately,I don't agree with you... Ben had been in solitary confinement for 60 days and they threw this on the table or he would go back in and stay there.
While I don't condone Ben's actions and what he did, clearly he has not been treated the same as others in his position.
Keep in mind that RICO had just been enacted and it probably didn't help that he tried to escape.

The federal goverment wanted the others involved,rightfully so...Ben would not bend and that is why he is still there,why they threw the Aronow case against him.
What I also find interesting is so many people know so much about this and there are very few people who have sat and talked to him...I did and I have a better understanding of the situation.

No one answered my question..why would Ben have wanted Aronow dead?

 

[Smarty]

Unfortunately,I don't agree with you... Ben had been in solitary confinement for 60 days and they threw this on the table or he would go back in and stay there.

The federal goverment wanted the others involved,rightfully so...Ben would not bend and that is why he is still there,why they threw the Aronow case against him.

What I also find interesting is so many people know so much about this and there are very few people who have sat and talked to him...I did and I have a better understanding of the situation.

No one answered my question..why would Ben have wanted Aronow dead?[/I]

I cannot answer that question, why Kramer wanted Aronow dead. I met Don Aronow when I was eight years old in 1974 and never saw or spoke with him again (irrelevant to this thread). I am not here to dispute the facts of the case, I just cannot accept that he did not have a choice, that is just inaccurate.

You may have an excellent recollection of the facts, but from a legal standpoint, he took a deal, and was not held at gunpoint to do so or the Judge would not have accepted the deal. That is how it works. I do this for a living, I have represented a murderer, drug dealer(s), and recently interviewed an accused child molester so I kinda know what I am talking when it comes to plea bargaining, and sentencing. I am a negoatiator, I get deals done.

Now as far as what Ben Kramer did, I was not there, I do not know all the facts, and I will not comment on what I do not know. If I take this new job I will have access to the dispostion of this case and all the recorded proceedings of the case, and I will get back to you then with what the legal research shows on what really happened procedurally, not factually.

I am getting out of the lawyer field and I am going back into sales (hopefully, I will know this week whether I start in this new career). At the end of each day I ask myself, "did I make the world a better place today, or did I help make the world a worse place to live?" That explains the change of profession (plus I will get paid more money).

I would love to talk with you in person and learn more about this case. I love Apache Powerboats, and whether Ben Kramer stays in jail or not, that will not affect my opinion of Apache boats.

PS - typically I am indifferent or apathetic when I see these threads, but it is raining here in NJ, not much sports on TV that i care for (Penn State just started), so here I am reading this thread today, and it has been entertaining. I am sure you guys will have six more pages of post before I get back online. I have date to get ready for so I gotta go!!

 

[Offshoredrillin]

Unfortunately,I don't agree with you... Ben had been in solitary confinement for 60 days and they threw this on the table or he would go back in and stay there.
While I don't condone Ben's actions and what he did, clearly he has not been treated the same as others in his position.
Keep in mind that RICO had just been enacted and it probably didn't help that he tried to escape.

The federal goverment wanted the others involved,rightfully so...Ben would not bend and that is why he is still there,why they threw the Aronow case against him.
What I also find interesting is so many people know so much about this and there are very few people who have sat and talked to him...I did and I have a better understanding of the situation.

No one answered my question..why would Ben have wanted Aronow dead?

So you plead to not be by yourself? sorry doesnt work that way. if you didnt do it you didnt do it. If he was being treated unfairly then his attorney should have addressed that issue with the court. But, a criminal is a criminal. I don't feel sorry for any of them.

 

[MikeyFIN]

well I have been in the thought that his attorney did in fact address the fact.

 

[cashbrain]

If any of us spent 60 days in solitary confinement with the threat of it being the rest of your life, I'm pretty sure you would agree to almost anything.
He agreed,but, clearly there was no option.
We can sit here and make judgement calls all day,but, I was there and I can tell you..it isn't pretty. Ben was brought into the room in shackles. and was escorted to the bathroom.
It is a horrific way to live...far worse than any of us can imagine

 

[Smarty]

If any of us spent 60 days in solitary confinement with the threat of it being the rest of your life, I'm pretty sure you would agree to almost anything.
He agreed,but, clearly there was no option.
We can sit here and make judgement calls all day,but, I was there and I can tell you..it isn't pretty. Ben was brought into the room in shackles. and was escorted to the bathroom.
It is a horrific way to live...far worse than any of us can imagine

You are absolutely correct, it is a terrible way to live (confinement). I hate going to the jails to interview the inmates. And I do understand and appreciate what you mean when you talk about the shackles and such. I have alot of gratitude for the blessings that God has bestowed upon me. I will pray for Ben Kramer, and I mean that; it is all I can do. May God have mercy on him.

 

[DAREDEVIL]

You are absolutely correct, it is a terrible way to live (confinement). I hate going to the jails to interview the inmates. And I do understand and appreciate what you mean when you talk about the shackles and such. I have alot of gratitude for the blessings that God has bestowed upon me. I will pray for Ben Kramer, and I mean that; it is all I can do. May God have mercy on him.

AMEN !!!!

PS.: Smarty,,i think u would be the right attn to get him out !!!!!!
maybe cashbrain and u should talk private and see what is going on ?!

 

[Smarty]

AMEN !!!!

PS.: Smarty,,i think u would be the right attn to get him out !!!!!!
maybe cashbrain and u should talk private and see what is going on ?!

I am not an appeals guy, but thank you for kind words. I am an in-person (face to face) in court attorney; not a paper work, not a motion or legal brief attorney, I hate that. I am glorified salesman with a license to practice law.

Getting back to help Ben Kramer, we all are redeemable in the eyes of God. I have to work on my on salvation first. I didn't mean to bring church to this this thread, but when I do help others it helps me feel good about what I do for a living. If I can help one addict or alcoholic change their ways, that is huge. Or, if I can help a drug dealer learn a trade, HVAC, electrical, or whatever, and become a productive member of society then that is even better. It is time to give back, service to others.

 

[cashbrain]

You are absolutely correct, it is a terrible way to live (confinement). I hate going to the jails to interview the inmates. And I do understand and appreciate what you mean when you talk about the shackles and such. I have alot of gratitude for the blessings that God has bestowed upon me. I will pray for Ben Kramer, and I mean that; it is all I can do. May God have mercy on him.

Very poignant post...
Where Ben is incarcerated is where they put Timothy McVeigh to death.
It is an incredible experience just to go there. Other than Ben's immediate family, only Magnum Mark,Lucy, and myself are on his visitation list.
These men are treated like animals..when I was sitting with Ben, he pointed out some of the criminals that were there...a guy that was sitting behind us cut up three guys in a drug deal..it is very disturbing.

I am a believer that the Feds made Ben an example and that is why is still there...
others that have done far worse are free now, including Bobby Young.

The answer is that Ben had no motivation to see Aronow dead..
Ben was on 188th at Fort Apache when Don was leaving Bobby S at Apache.
The story is substantially more complex, and Ben and Don..while rivals, had a great deal of respect for each other.(prolly get alot of chit for that one)

Smarty..you are stand up guy..thanks for your posts and I would be happy to talk anytime

 

[cashbrain]

Getting back to help Ben Kramer, we all are redeemable in the eyes of God. I have to work on my on salvation first. I didn't mean to bring church to this this thread, but when I do help others it helps me feel good about what I do for a living. If I can help one addict or alcoholic change their ways, that is huge. Or, if I can help a drug dealer learn a trade, HVAC, electrical, or whatever, and become a productive member of society then that is even better. It is time to give back, service to others.

We are of the same mind..I am working on several programs such as these now...

 

[Smarty]

We are of the same mind..I am working on several programs such as these now...

That is what I am talking about...good for you. Regardless of what Ben Kramer may or may not have did the fact that you are his friend, and have stuck by him says alot as to loyalty (and possibly forgiveness without judgment) and this is an example of the type of guy that you are, I do admire that character quality (loyalty and forgiveness) I will e-mail you this week. I am glad that we have meeting of the minds on common ground.

 

[Offshoredrillin]

Ben was brought into the room in shackles. and was escorted to the bathroom.
It is a horrific way to live...far worse than any of us can imagine

again, what part of jail is supposed to be all comfy and cozy? I do understand what you are saying but ya know what its called jail for a reason, to punish criminals, and as a deterrent to people that are thinking of committing crimes. Why is there a club fed, so high dollar criminals can serve their time in comforts, bring back Alcatraz and devils island..Kramer can be the modern day Papillon, we as a society are too leniant.

when I was sitting with Ben, he pointed out some of the criminals that were there...a guy that was sitting behind us cut up three guys in a drug deal..it is very disturbing.

Yes it is disturbing, but I wonder if he saw the irony in seeing the murderer, someone had to import the drugs for him to be involved in the deal that proliferated the murder...viscous cycle isnt it? Kramer knew the chances of getting caught but went ahead and did the crime...

 

[phragle]

if yo commit a crime, you go to jail. not boyscout camp.. reality and tv sitcoms are a very different thing.

 

[MikeyFIN]

We are of the same mind..I am working on several programs such as these now...

offtopic.
I took care of Juveniles in a program letting them work in my shop or train with them but the program got cancelled many moons ago.
Some of them are doing fine and work, got a family etc some are still bad but everyone greets me while I bump into them and changes at least few words.
I felt I was good for something at least.

And Yes Ben was made as an example probably because of his flashy lifestyle.

Seems the Envy isn´t a Finnish thing afterall...
As there´s a saying envy goes before getting randy over here...

 

[MikeyFIN]

Yes it is disturbing, but I wonder if he saw the irony in seeing the murderer, someone had to import the drugs for him to be involved in the deal that proliferated the murder...viscous cycle isnt it? Kramer knew the chances of getting caught but went ahead and did the crime...

The answer is that Ben had no motivation to see Aronow dead..
Ben was on 188th at Fort Apache when Don was leaving Bobby S at Apache.
The story is substantially more complex, and Ben and Don..while rivals, had a great deal of respect for each other.(prolly get alot of chit for that one)

guess you forgot this Cashbrain wrote...

I mean If you think of it it makes sense...and it´s the only fact in this case which isn´t based on assumptions.


I also got misled by the message board wiseguys before and gotta say follow your gut instinct based on real facts.
Cashbrains told it like this and somebody else also From Bens visitor list exactly the same on different forums.

 

[Geronimo36]

Just remember, you are the company you keep. Whether or not it's the same it is the perception.

Applaud you for your efforts, good luck guys... If he gets out hopefully he wont continue like in his past...

signing off!!