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Freebenkramer.com?

cashbrain said:
He didn't have a choice and he didn't admit to anything...
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He had a choice, he entered into his plea, freely and voluntarily, not under duress or coercion, he was not under the influence of alcohol or drugs, and did so with the consent and advice of his attorney. Those words, or nearly identical words would be on the record at sentencing, that is standard stuff. I must disagree, he had a choice, goto trial or take the plea. All criminal cases fall into this slot, he is not an exception.
 
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cashbrain said:
Can you tell me why Ben would want to kill Aronow?
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A million dollars under the table Don got and never gave back when the deal went south of USA Racing Team.
Actually moraly he had no need to.
He sold the company which got into trouble because of BEN HIMSELF and Don offered to buy back at discount like so many times before.
Ben just couldn´t take it.
 
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According to what I've found, Ben was indited for smugglling marijuana and due to the amount (500K lbs) it carried a mandantory life-sentence without the possibility for parole. In addition was tried and convicted of money laundering ($60M) which carried a 20 yr sentence and plead no-contest to the association of Don's murder.

Someone correct me if I have it all wrong?

And even if I did have the opportunity to talk to Ben himself, I'm sure he would paint a rosey picture....he has too....I wouldn't expect any different.

Like was said above, we'll never know the whole story and the whole truth about Don's murder...
 
Fast forward in to the present..... Society has become more liberal in the setencing for marijuana smuggling so a lot of guys previously convicted are getting a "get out of jail free card" (thank the liberals for this).... Time has been served on the the money laundering charges (all stemmed from the drugs) and it sounds like he's trying to get the no-contest charges appealed/dismissed...

That's what I understand, did I miss anything?
 
Chris said:
Jack- you are wrong.

Ben plead no contest, was found guilty and sentenced. Back up a few pages and read about nolo pleas.

Don't confuse "convicted for the murder of..." and "...shot DA". Ben was convicted of the murder. In Florida, as in most states, paying another to murder someone is the exact same thing a shooting them yourself.

Ben Kramer chose to not dispute the facts presented in evidence that he was complicit in the execution murder of Don Aronow. He stood before a judge and openly declared "I do not dispute the facts presented to this court regarding my involvement in the murder of Don Aronow". He was subsequently found guilty and convicted.
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He sounds like quite a guy, probably misunderstood too.

I can't help but thinking what the repercussions would be in the boating world if he were released. My guess is, not favorable.

All he did was smuggle 500 thousand pounds of dope, set up an international organization for laundering the money, probably a few more nasty things, oh, and was instrumental in the murder of DA.

One has to wonder why the powerboat industry still has a stench to it in many circles. Freeing something like Ben Kramer would probably not help much.
 
VtSteve said:
One has to wonder why the powerboat industry still has a stench to it in many circles. Freeing something like Ben Kramer would probably not help much.
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Offtopic.

the boats themselves are obnoxius and not many women ( who in fact are the bosses in the house) do like powerboats for long.

Find me one that does and I´m darn willing to propose for real.
 
Chris said:
One more time.

Drugs provide zero positive social benefit. (social, like societal, not an improvement to your social life).

Drugs are incontrovertably linked to the commission of both violent and non-violent crime.

Drugs ruin lives. They remove people from their reality. People in these positions need to remain in their reality and endeavor to remove themselves from whatever morass they're trapped in and find a life, not hide from one.

People steal and kill to get the money for drugs. That's bad for the rest of us.

Parents that use drugs typically doom their children to a life of drug use. And the cycle perpetuates.

The money collected wouldn't cover the postage on the government aid checks we'd be sending out to these people sitting around stoned all day. Drugs are a one-trick pony. They don't make you smarter. They don't make you more attractive. They make you feel better. And they make you feel better artificially. They stimulate the same chemical processes that your body naturally experiences from actual, real-world positive experiences. Like hitting a home run, crafting a sculpture, inventing a beneficial device and so on. What drugs do is give you that feeling without the effort. And when they wear off, you're left with a $hitty life where you've accomplished nothing. So then you have to pay for that experience you just had by feeling poorly- and having to face the fact that you really haven't done anything. So to make it go away, you get high again. But unless you stay high, that mean old reality keeps coming back. And the high becomes your normal and you need that warm feeling back again, so you move up the ladder to something else. Or you realize that one chemical is working, so there must be others that work too.

You want to be high? Take some dying kids and their parents for a boat ride next Saturday. Accomplish something. Sell that raceboat that's all about nothing other than your own personal pleasure and benefits no one other than yourself and get something that you can fit a half-dozen people in to. Then enjoy the smile you put on the face of a little girl that's lived her entire life with a massive birth defect, or a teenage by that's known he's going to die for a few years now, but also knows it's going to take a number of very painful years before the end comes. or the father that helps you lift that limp body into your boat that, despite being a man, knows he helpless to do anything for his own child.
Get high on that.
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I don't get high,,,please don't miss read my post ,,i think it may be the way i write them ,,but i am not in to drugs at all !!!!!

Also ,,i have my heart in the right place and help sick and poor people all the time ,,,that is why i am not the richest either.
my brother was born in a wheelchair and i lived it all my life and still do.
Took all the wheelchair guys to country festivals in germany when i was there and hung out with them,,,took them to my bar's and party'd everything on me !!!!
Never asked for something back and enjoyed every bid of it...

So don't tell me what to do with my life ,,,,PLEASE



On the other hand,,,your posts and your avatar,,,i can see your full of hate and anger to every thing that u don't understand .

SORRY

:USA:
 
Chris.
Scotty is all 100% heart and Genuine. Believe me and no drugs.
Not even coffee.
But Red Bull and Grey Goose yes at least one or two a year from now on ;)
 
I was replying to Scott. If you look at the top of that post you'll see his comments quoted. How you find yourself in there, I don't know. I was responding to his continual advocacy of legalizing drugs- and using an economic argument to sell his position. I infer from his positions that drugs reperesent a victimless crime and that the magical solution is legalization.

You're goddamned right I despise the effects of drugs and those that profit from the pain and destruction they bring to our citizens. But that doesn't stem from any lack of understanding I may have. If you take a few minutes and actually read what I posted, you'll probably garner from what I wrote that I'm somewhat well-informed on the topic.
 
"On the other hand,,,your posts and your avatar,,,i can see your full of hate and anger to every thing that u don't understand"

Thats not accurate. You wouldn't go anywhere near words like that if you spent a day with the gentleman.

If for arguments sake your position was accepted, there wouldn't be much hate and anger; from what I've witnessed there is very little the man doesn't understand.
 
Seems it goes both ways...both get misunderstood.

Legalizing isn´t a solution in any way but thenagain.. the system would have more important issues to deal with and more manpower for it.
 
catastrophe said:
"On the other hand,,,your posts and your avatar,,,i can see your full of hate and anger to every thing that u don't understand"

Thats not accurate. You wouldn't go anywhere near words like that if you spent a day with the gentleman.

If for arguments sake your position was accepted, there wouldn't be much hate and anger; from what I've witnessed there is very little the man doesn't understand.
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OK OK,,,lets just cool it and be friends again .:USA:



What was this thread about ???
 
MikeyFIN said:
Offtopic.

the boats themselves are obnoxius and not many women ( who in fact are the bosses in the house) do like powerboats for long.

Find me one that does and I´m darn willing to propose for real.
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Easy there in don't know about Finland but in America the men run the house.:biggrinjester:
 
Just for the record my post a few pages ago was not for legalizing drugs.That I am against but if you put a bullet in every drug dealers head there would be more tomorrow.You need to stop the need it does seem to be happening though doesn't seem as bad as it was 20 years ago.
As for Ben really don't care what happens to this guy he is only idolized because he is in jail.If he was out imagine the threads then.
 
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