The Great Unification

[Wahoo 214]

Plus I have to dump about $6000 in my Bravo's before spring :sifone:

 

[Ratickle]

Plus I have to dump about $6000 in my Bravo's before spring :sifone:

:rofl: . :rofl: . :rofl:

 

[SHARKEY-IMAGES]

Plus I have to dump about $6000 in my Bravo's before spring :sifone:

:ack2:

 

[Wazzup Racing]

Other drives are not allowed.

One of the biggest problems in race boats is keeping costs down, and therefore competition at a high level. A number 6 boat, even though it is a Merc, will beat an identical Bravo boat every time because of its turning capabilities.

I have no idea about an Arneson in the same situation, but I suspect the same is true.

I honestly feel if the #6 boats were limited to the same gear ratio as the bravos, the racing would be very close. When the first 40's were built with #6's we beat them. It wasn't until they explored gear ratio's that are not available to the bravos, that they became dominate. I would welcome a heads up race, with the same ratio's.

 

[Bilgerat]

:ack2:

Maybe you should try turning around the corners instead of drifting, its not a nissan.

 

[Ratickle]

I honestly feel if the #6 boats were limited to the same gear ratio as the bravos, the racing would be very close. When the first 40's were built with #6's we beat them. It wasn't until they explored gear ratio's that are not available to the bravos, that they became dominate. I would welcome a heads up race, with the same ratio's.

You and Jim should discuss it. I always understood that the 6 boats would take turns much faster without spinning out. If you are correct, seems as if a simple rules change fixes the issue and the class is open to more boats.

Any idea on the surface drives?

Abd a goofy sort of question maybe. Anyone know why the drive height is limited to 1 inch above the boat bottom on Bravo's in SBI but no limitations on 6's?

 

[Bilgerat]

By the way is a Max Machine Worx, "bravo" drive allowed in OPA SV class definition? Skeg and bullet etc. are different than your IMCO or Merc.?

 

[Ratickle]

Maybe you should try turning around the corners instead of drifting, its not a nissan.

Welcome.

And what's the fun in that??????

Have you been watching the Fast and Furious Offshore version?????:sifone:

 

[Wazzup Racing]

You and Jim should discuss it. I always understood that the 6 boats would take turns much faster without spinning out. If you are correct, seems as if a simple rules change fixes the issue and the class is open to more boats.

Any idea on the surface drives?

Abd a goofy sort of question maybe. Anyone know why the drive height is limited to 1 inch above the boat bottom on Bravo's in SBI but no limitations on 6's?

The 40 0n a #6 wants to dig the bow and spin. The 38 is faster in tight turns. The 40 needs wide sweeps, I think various race coarses would favor either boats.

 

[Rik]

I understand that Rik. What I'm saying is Mercury spent an extremely large chunk of money in the past to get the advantage they enjoyed in the rules. It was not just drives, but complete propulsion packages.

Now, obviously they do not. But, if the rules are changed for a spec class and it makes a particular boat dominant, that also is not a good thing.

I've seen the demise of F1, F2, Supercat, etc. just because of that. It can't continue to be that way or there will never be an Offshore sport which can support race teams monetarily.

The size of the chunk is debatable:cuss: since it started with a rumored back door agreement with APBA and was grandfathered into OSS but belive me, the racers paid it not Mercury. It was rumor'd to be $50K over 3 yrs but was only paid for two. Merc sat back and collected all the way.

The demise of those classes have several external factors. Saftey played a large role in F2 when the SV's were far safer and faster with the same power. Then the $$ of running Bravo's put a lot of F2 teams in a pinch just as it did SCL before they all switched as it was less expensive to race a 6 than a Bravo. It was less expensive to purchase a Merc 750/6 package than it was to purchase a 525/6 package.. Go figure.

Then the state of the economy

 

[Rik]

Rik,
Our SV is Bravo only because it protects the value of our boats and assures equal boats and performance. The Bravos are also the weak link in the boats. Since Mercury has never showered OPA with $$$, I'm sure our class would listen to a plan that would move us to a more practical and economical drive.

Talk to me.

 

[Sean Stinson]

Damn an educational debate is actually taking place let me mark calendar!!!! The time is coming!!!!!

 

[Ratickle]

The size of the chunk is debatable:cuss: since it started with a rumored back door agreement with APBA and was grandfathered into OSS but belive me, the racers paid it not Mercury. It was rumor'd to be $50K over 3 yrs but was only paid for two. Merc sat back and collected all the way.

The demise of those classes have several external factors. Saftey played a large role in F2 when the SV's were far safer and faster with the same power. Then the $$ of running Bravo's put a lot of F2 teams in a pinch just as it did SCL before they all switched as it was less expensive to race a 6 than a Bravo. It was less expensive to purchase a Merc 750/6 package than it was to purchase a 525/6 package.. Go figure.

Then the state of the economy

I would love to debate the demise of Supercat, F2, and F1. Those were premium classes that were growing by leaps and bounds but a few changes, not just one change granted, saw them disappear. You guys know most of it, I think I know some of it, but I am fearful the same thing will happen unless it is learned from and remembered......

 

[RACESDAD]

1 cat class 36 - 40
1 v class 35 42
above should have spec heads, intake, carbs,crank pistons, block, and ignition systems but built by anyone. this will allow contigentcy money from the manufacturers of above parts. It will allow tow money and a points championship pay out at the end of the season. just like drag racing. This would bring Jegs, Summit, and other part suppliers into the marine business.
1 outboard cat
1 single engine v
1 exibition class v or cat run what ya brung, any motor any hp any thing goes
let opa sbi and oss work together and have divisionals and all come together for a national circuit that will be televised.
too many classes for tv. we started in the divisional classes and ran our first race in 85 in a so called p class race.
this will work.
Input please

 

[Sean Stinson]

I would love to debate the demise of Supercat, F2, and F1. Those were premium classes that were growing by leaps and bounds but a few changes, not just one change granted, saw them disappear. You guys know most of it, I think I know some of it, but I am fearful the same thing will happen unless it is learned from and remembered......

What I think is that the divisional racing needs to come back....I also think there needs to be 1 (ONE) national circuit with 4-5 spec classes PERIOD....then by using Smitty's formula which is obviously working whether you love it or hate it, it is working, build the divisional class fleets and out of those build the national fleet!!!!! THEN most, if not all, boats have NO EXCUSE why they can't come out and join the fun!!!! Money will no longer be an excuse because it is extremely reasonable to race Smitty's Program....Boat doesn't fit a class doesn't work because it is bracket racing you race the GPS as well as the others in your field.....too far to travel doesn't work because divisional is area specific....

So I am waiting to hear what the next round of excuses will be!!!!!

Sean

 

[Ratickle]

Mike's would have 5 spec classes and 6 P classes?

Actually looks pretty close to being able to accomodate almost all current racers with minor changes instead of major.....

 

[RACESDAD]

now will THEY listen? that is the question. i have been in this sport since 1985. seen it all
i have raced in
d class
stock ( limited, very limited time)
b class
a class
modified
f-3
catlite
f-2 in donzi and fountain 2002- 2004
i am also in the entertainment business, and believe it or not offshore IS an Entertainment business. and that is how it must be run as.
i would gladly, as i have in the past work with anyone on this if they would just listen. the last is the hardest part

 

[Sean Stinson]

now will THEY listen? that is the question. i have been in this sport since 1985. seen it all
i have raced in
d class
stock ( limited, very limited time)
b class
a class
modified
f-3
catlite
f-2 in donzi and fountain 2002- 2004
i am also in the entertainment business, and believe it or not offshore IS an Entertainment business. and that is how it must be run as.
i would gladly, as i have in the past work with anyone on this if they would just listen. the last is the hardest part

I am all ears my friend!!!!!

 

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

Sounds good. Now get the owners to agree. The top V and Cat classes need to have a come to Jesus talk and agree.

Put all extremes together .

Cat out board, V single and P classes are in agreement.

 

[1waterboy1]

1 cat class 36 - 40
1 v class 35 42
above should have spec heads, intake, carbs,crank pistons, block, and ignition systems but built by anyone. this will allow contigentcy money from the manufacturers of above parts. It will allow tow money and a points championship pay out at the end of the season. just like drag racing. This would bring Jegs, Summit, and other part suppliers into the marine business.
1 outboard cat
1 single engine v
1 exibition class v or cat run what ya brung, any motor any hp any thing goes
let opa sbi and oss work together and have divisionals and all come together for a national circuit that will be televised.
too many classes for tv. we started in the divisional classes and ran our first race in 85 in a so called p class race.
this will work.
Input please

I think only two national classes(Cat and Vee; with specs like you have described) would be the best format.Two classes unique in appearance would be easy to understand and would work well for TV coverage as well.All marketing and promotion of the sport should be focused on these classes.Superboat,Xtreme or Unlimited classes should be phased out...they are too expensive and there have never been enough boats in classes over the years. They also overshadow the real racing going on in the other classes.One of the biggest serbacks in the sport happened when the Superboat class was developed in 1985.This diluted and eventually destoyed the very competitive Open class.

All other classes (spec and bracket);it does not really matter how many there are,could run the regional circuts...NE,SE,C & W.As Sean suggested,build up the regional circuts to cultivate racers for the premiere Cat and Vee classes.

Just my opinion.