The Great Unification

[Rik]

Rik,
That was true but, I believe it is no longer the case in twin V.

I have lost interest in V twin personally but, when I looked I could find no restrictions in Extreme. The second mentioned production configurations.

Take the time to read and see if I am reading it correctly. I agree with you. Everyone should be free to pick in the top V twin class.

No disrespect to the "Extreme Racers" but those classes are more of a survival than a race and this class is by nature very small.

General wide acceptance has been greater in the smaller hp twin classes in the past but as you noted they have died off also. Every time the classes get going to fast the racers go away as it cost to much to purchase a new boat all the time to keep up but the racers have the option to step up of they feel like it. (I feel P1 Super sport might have made this same mistake but time will tell)

I feel people are more excited about the P1 style as one can find different hulls, different engines and different drive options all in one class in one series racing against each other. But when one manufacturer can control the class through the rules rather than through competition the class dies also.

 

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

The wording OSS close in their rules may be causing some confusion. It appears to me the OSS Extreme Power to weight class is very different than SBI V Extreme.

 

[Ratickle]

And I thought I was the only one having trouble figuring out the rules......:sifone:

 

[Pete B]

IMO, Saying OSS doesnt allow this or that is directing something at THAT organization,
there are 3 organization to choose from here, which this thread is about. hearing the excuse that OSS doesnt allow this or that is old. if you want to run arneson's drives hooked to weisman tranny's with sterling motors, pulled around by a dodge here in american no one is stopping anyone.

 

[Wahoo 214]

Do you mean SV in OSS or in general? I know 38' Fountians run real good with the Arnesons, but OSS keeps things Merc only

I was referring to the OPA SV which is modeled off of the orginal SV class with 525s and Bravos. We set it up that way to make older boats competitive and prevent the my wallet is bigger than yours syndrome.

Rik, how about sponsoring the 6 SV boats racing with bravo conversion kits? May be we can work something out with selling our Bravos. You could be sole provider.

 

[Ratickle]

Rik, how about sponsoring the 6 SV boats racing with bravo conversion kits? May be we can work something out with selling our Bravos. You could be sole provider.

That would be interesting.:sifone:

 

[Rik]

IMO, Saying OSS doesnt allow this or that is directing something at THAT organization,
there are 3 organization to choose from here, which this thread is about. hearing the excuse that OSS doesnt allow this or that is old. if you want to run arneson's drives hooked to weisman tranny's with sterling motors, pulled around by a dodge here in american no one is stopping anyone.

Really, so I could have raced LOTO last weekend with this package? I understand that while it is possible as you described to race (somewhere) I would not be welcome everywhere. And the point I and Pat (can I speak on your behalf for second Pat?) is that why should we be excluded from racing at any race on any given race day and not afforded the same rights as someone with a Mercury drive? :icon_bs:

I'd better shut up. I'm starting to sound like a minority wanting the American Dream:rofl::USA:

 

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

Don't know why not Bob Morgan raced a 4 blower motor cat. Although they didn't race in LOTO Cat 750 has a rudder boat. Last year in SBI Taboo ran arnesons.

It seems to me you may be getting hung up with the past. I personally would love to see the extreme guys racing more boats.

 

[Rik]

I was referring to the OPA SV which is modeled off of the orginal SV class with 525s and Bravos. We set it up that way to make older boats competitive and prevent the my wallet is bigger than yours syndrome.

Rik, how about sponsoring the 6 SV boats racing with bravo conversion kits? May be we can work something out with selling our Bravos. You could be sole provider.

I would be open to help, BUT I would not want to reverse the rules that have been used to keep Arneson out. I don't feel that there should be an exclusive rules to bar people from choosing what they want to use. Rather, if my product gave a competitive advantage, the service was good and others chose to go that way it would be a win win and no one would ***** about it.

That being said, I'd like six new customers as much as the next guy.:bigear:

 

[Rik]

Don't know why not Bob Morgan raced a 4 blower motor cat. Although they didn't race in LOTO Cat 750 has a rudder boat. Last year in SBI Taboo ran arnesons.

It seems to me you may be getting hung up with the past. I personally would love to see the extreme guys racing more boats.

No Jim, I understand we and everyone are allowed in "EXTREME" class. I am speaking of being allowed to be involved overall in racing, not just in the smaller classes or a particular series . Bill ran SBI b/c he had no other venues to race in. I'm sure he would have liked to be able to run in different series against different racers throughout the year like others could do if he had Merc drives.

I could care less of the past and only have a forward looking point of view as if people have a choice they can make it tomorrow. They cannot change or plan for yesterday.

 

[DPT MOTORSPORTS]

I was referring to the OPA SV which is modeled off of the orginal SV class with 525s and Bravos. We set it up that way to make older boats competitive and prevent the my wallet is bigger than yours syndrome.

Not trying to stir the pot but I was actually wondering to myself the other day about OPA's SV class. Are other drives not allowed or is it just that none have come to race as of yet? Just curious that's all because as numbers go it would make more sense to me to race OPA if someone were wanting to race SV.

 

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

Rik, I see and understand your point.

The best I can tell out of 20 some odd classes I believe there are only a few spec classes left in which you are not welcome. 850's, Cat light, SVL. Yes they are primarily OSS based but, they have run in all three series. Well not sure that is true for 850. Anyway there seems to be plenty of opportunity to me.

 

[Ratickle]

Not trying to stir the pot but I was actually wondering to myself the other day about OPA's SV class. Are other drives not allowed or is it just that none have come to race as of yet? Just curious that's all because as numbers go it would make more sense to me to race OPA if someone were wanting to race SV.

Other drives are not allowed.

One of the biggest problems in race boats is keeping costs down, and therefore competition at a high level. A number 6 boat, even though it is a Merc, will beat an identical Bravo boat every time because of its turning capabilities.

I have no idea about an Arneson in the same situation, but I suspect the same is true.

 

[Ratickle]

The only thing I can relate it to is allowing Formula 1 suspensions, chassis, and tires in NASCAR. Somewhere there have to be rules to keep the competition close. Otherwise the biggest wallet wins every time.

The problem everyone faces, what are those rules. And, can they be discussed and tweaked without everyone wanting to kill each other. Pat and Rik have valid points. However, you're never gonna see a Bravo in the turbine class......

 

[Ratickle]

One of the points that have to be made because of the past, Mercury put a very large chunk of money into Offshore racing to get many of the advantages they received rules wise. The same thing is true with things like Hoosier tires or Goodyear tires etc for their respective sports..........


I personally do not know what the answer is...

I do know, Offshore cannot afford to obsolete teams like they have in the past with rules changes that all of a sudden make almost every boat in a class obsolete because of a new technical improvement.

Once again, what if NASCAR all of a sudden allowed the latest Formula 1 technology?

 

[Rik]

Rik, I see and understand your point.

The best I can tell out of 20 some odd classes I believe there are only a few spec classes left in which you are not welcome. 850's, Cat light, SVL. Yes they are primarily OSS based but, they have run in all three series. Well not sure that is true for 850. Anyway there seems to be plenty of opportunity to me.

I agree. OSS just seems (in the past) a more promoted series than the others. Be that good or be that bad, I'm not involved either way. When people ask about race boats, they automatically see what is most popular and follow the leader so to speak and thus "when" one group has a lock it thwarts others attempts to enter other classes automatically. It's just the nature of the beast.

 

[Rik]

One of the points that have to be made because of the past, Mercury put a very large chunk of money into Offshore racing to get many of the advantages they received rules wise. The same thing is true with things like Hoosier tires or Goodyear tires etc for their respective sports..........


I personally do not know what the answer is...

I do know, Offshore cannot afford to obsolete teams like they have in the past with rules changes that all of a sudden make almost every boat in a class obsolete because of a new technical improvement.

Once again, what if NASCAR all of a sudden allowed the latest Formula 1 technology?

I'm talking outdrives here, (that last and offer lower cost of ownership) not computers, hulls and engines. Having a choice is not making it exclusive.

 

[Ratickle]

I'm talking outdrives here, (that last and offer lower cost of ownership) not computers, hulls and engines. Having a choice is not making it exclusive.

I understand that Rik. What I'm saying is Mercury spent an extremely large chunk of money in the past to get the advantage they enjoyed in the rules. It was not just drives, but complete propulsion packages.

Now, obviously they do not. But, if the rules are changed for a spec class and it makes a particular boat dominant, that also is not a good thing.

I've seen the demise of F1, F2, Supercat, etc. just because of that. It can't continue to be that way or there will never be an Offshore sport which can support race teams monetarily.

 

[Ratickle]

By the way. Has anyone driven identical boats except for Arnesons or Wisemans on one and Number 6's on the other????

Just curious.

 

[Wahoo 214]

Rik,
Our SV is Bravo only because it protects the value of our boats and assures equal boats and performance. The Bravos are also the weak link in the boats. Since Mercury has never showered OPA with $$$, I'm sure our class would listen to a plan that would move us to a more practical and economical drive.