Birth of a Race Boat

[phragle]

DAMN,,,,,i did not know that smart people live here !!!!!:rofl::sifone::USA:

so cigdaze is bilingual, he speaks English and Engineer. I had a roommate once that was an engineer... took a while to really understand him...

he would tell me things like "you need to increase the resistance to deflection at the upper end of the velocity spectrum in your enertial comphensation device" which I immediatly undertood to mean " my racebikes shocks need more high speed dampening"

 

[DAREDEVIL]

so cigdaze is bilingual, he speaks English and Engineer. I had a roommate once that was an engineer... took a while to really understand him...

he would tell me things like "you need to increase the resistance to deflection at the upper end of the velocity spectrum in your enertial comphensation device" which I immediatly undertood to mean " my racebikes shocks need more high speed dampening"

:rofl::driving::rofl::driving::rofl:

 

[Airpacker]

what I want to know is if I paint an OL black and park it in the sun, does it "post cure" any more than when it was autoclaved?

 

[Chris]

Aviation grade epoxies cure to their fullest at approximately 275 - 325*F.

.

There are some new boatbuilding-specific epoxies out there now that are curing under 120. They can be done without an oven- by using insulating blankets.

 

[cigdaze]

There are some new boatbuilding-specific epoxies out there now that are curing under 120. They can be done without an oven- by using insulating blankets.

Oh, absolutely. Heck, even room temp will suffice often times, but the most exquisite and strongest of the formulations will require the higher temps. It all comes down to your budget and strength to weight requirements. Interestingly enough, most will undergo some sort of post-cure long after initial cure when temperatures are re-elevated. Momentarily, strength will nosedive, but will after wards increase further.

 

[Sean H]

what I want to know is if I paint an OL black and park it in the sun, does it "post cure" any more than when it was autoclaved?

nobody is autoclaving an entire offshore boat..... and yes, some companies post cure boats out in the parking lot in the florida sun.

 

[skaterdave]

There are some new boatbuilding-specific epoxies out there now that are curing under 120. They can be done without an oven- by using insulating blankets.

almost all epoxys cure at room temp. its a matter of gaining there ultimate strenght by post curing them. also its not the epoxy that dictates the oven temp, its the core thats in the laminate. most foam cores can only by heated to around 150-160 before running into trouble. thats why most of the post curing is between 140-160 range. this is also why some builders of hi-performance boat, like racing sailboats (americas' cup) are going back to Balsa and other high temp cores to be able to post cure above 200 degrees for improved strenght.

next say your epoxy boat wasn't post cured and built in michigan, and then you buy it and bring it to florida where you live. this boat will "get soft", basically the laminate will soften or move around to the relative temp of the existing conditions, unless it was post cured above the temp climate that it lives in. for instance take a high end epoxy boat and bring it down to florida and you can see the laminate and the bulkheads "printing" threw paint. i've always noticed it worse at florida races than say northern races. and this is especially true on non-gelcoated surfaces, where the laminate has been faired and painted instead of having gelcoat. basically having a thin skin thickness compared a boat that was gelcoated and backing up the gelcoat with a few layers of resin rich chop mat. which also would add alot of weight. some boats you can tell the different laminates, cloth, bi-ax glass ( 45 x 45 pattern) printing thru the paint. this is typically more appearent on darker color boats.

also, most of the epoxys explain there curing times and cycles. most epoxys want to be post cured but also say that if they sit in mold for 30 days that this would also work. they normally cure within 24 hrs as a working time. the 30 day method becomes a problem when the 30 days is in mich during the winter compared to 30 days in florida during the summer.

plus theres all different kinds of hardners that affect this situtation

 

[Chris]

What I'm referring to is post-cure at those temps with comparable results in strength that were previously achieved with higher temps in oven curing.

 

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

I have noticed the print through on boats years after they are built painted, traveled to hot climates and painted again. I believe based on what I have seen there is more to it than curing. Maybe the materials expand and contract with temp and the thin skins allow it to be seen it.

 

[Geronimo36]

I will have some more boat photo's up in the morning, they guys are busy sanding, but these will have to do for now.

Looks like the 510's are coming along.

 

[shifter]

nobody is autoclaving an entire offshore boat..... and yes, some companies post cure boats out in the parking lot in the florida sun.

platinum's 41 vee is completely autoclaved.

pat W

 

[Sean H]

cool, put up a pic of the autoclave.

 

[animalhouse]

platinum's 41 vee is completely autoclaved.

pat W

I would like to see that autoclave, a true autoclave of that size would cost millions. We use an oven, which is what I suspect that they are using as well.

 

[OldSchool]

I would like to see that autoclave, a true autoclave of that size would cost millions. We use an oven, which is what I suspect that they are using as well.

That's got to be one big azz oven!!!!:biggrinjester:

 

[Davidmnc]

That's got to be one big azz oven!!!!:biggrinjester:

Can you imagine the biscuits you could back in the some*****! :biggrinjester:

 

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

platinum's 41 vee is completely autoclaved.

pat W

Aren't Platinums built by Skater? Has that changed?

 

[Geronimo36]

Can you imagine the biscuits you could bake in the some*****! :biggrinjester:

Dayum, you could put Tasty Cakes outta business and build boats at the same time!:26::rofl:

 

[Geronimo36]

Aren't Fountains built by Skater? Has that changed?

sorry man, had too!! :rofl::seeya:

 

[Powerabout]

A mate of mine did an epoxy cat and with divinycel foam.
He laid up a couple of composite test panels and put thermocouples into them, painted the surface of some of them from white to black.
All but the white panel, when left in the sun raised the foam temp very close to where the foam cant hack it.

I have noticed some of the racing 'A' class beach catamarns in our club with dark covers have print through and the ones with light covers do not you can see where the contour foam panels little squares have shrunk.
Clearly the issue is more pronounced as there is only a very thin glass layer over the foam on these boats.
So your core getting to dangerous temp is very common, unless the builder used expensive foam.
Or use Nomex or aluminium cores?
(So what happens when you glass doesnt deform but the foam has still shrunk inside???)

PS yacht builders have autoclaves that will take over 100ft boats as they build them from pre preg as they also do with the masts which are over 150' long.
1987 Steinlager NZ 80' race yacht was built in an autoclave first large yacht to be done like this I think...powerboats are a bit behind.
Very rich guys throw big money at yachts, most to be binned after a year or so as no longer competitive.
A years racing budget makes the hull cost only a small part...

 

[DAREDEVIL]

That's got to be one big azz oven!!!!:biggrinjester:

PIZZA !!!!!!!!!!!!!!:sifone: