Anyone taking odds on the auto industry bail-out?

[pullmytrigger]

about sums what up?

what dont you get???

the big three's cars have a reputation for being P'sOS......you can buy a Toyota, drive it for 5 yrs and never lay a wrench on it, just reg maint......the resale values on the two brands says it all.

a westcoast guy posted awhile back on OSO about how his family owns a company that makes sensors for GM......he said GM will come and say they need a sensor that will do this and this and this......so they make it......then GM will come back and say "OK its good, we like it, but you need to cut your price per unit by 6 cents"......the only way they can do it is to make a cheaper (read unreliable) product...... he said they know the product is chitty as it goes out the door but thats what they paid for......you do that all over the car and you know what you get.

 

[itilldo]

Here's another troubling sign of the times...

this is a global issue... I talked to two buddies of mine who are both in the Teir 1 supplier base like myself, one in the UK and one in Germany just this morning about this topic and they are getting slow over there as well...in fact both stated that have each seen the work force being "trimmed" at their plant in the last several weeks. Keep in mind that these guys make car parts for Audi, Mercedes, Ford, GM, VW as well as others.

Keep in mind that this country is the place to sell cars and they will all, even Honda and Toyota, be hurting soon, some just will take a little longer to feel the pinch.

We have two competitive automotive suppliers in town here and they have had "fiscal issue's" and trimming people for the last several months but my plant is just starting to feel it today. In fact before me leaving work today, there was a plant wide meeting and the Hourly's were informed that they were going to be laying off 30 people prior to Christmas and don't look to come back until around the middle of Feb, maybe................

The Oil companies and the speculators really should be happy that they started all of this P h uckin mess

 

[itilldo]

I don't want anyone to see pain, but someone has to right now.

Here is the fundemental difference is this-

Why does your town get to survive?
Why do we have to look out for those people?
Why can't those people look out for themselves?
Why can't they relocate to where they can make a nice living?

It's a MUCH bigger picture

its not a matter of my town or other towns surviving per say...its surviving in the very basic's of needs, food and shelter.... If these people whom you say should tough it up and move on, to where to what....The number of people needing work will out weigh of what is available and what pay level will this be at, 8 bucks an hour? so too take a different job making the 8 or 10 bucks @ hr compared to the $16 they were making, now who / how are they going to make the difference in their diminished pay to accommodate that monthly house note? Make Meth or grow Pot and sell it to the City folks...


What I'm really trying to say is that this is not that cut and dry.


The main issue I really have is the bail out to AIG. This is not where that Government help should have gone too. Its better to keep people working than it is too worry about them loosing their house. You can find a place to sleep if your have a job even thou it might be a one bedroom apartment but if you don't have a job well you do what you have to do to survive......

 

[jayboat]

Yer right, it's not that cut and dry. I also think you are wrong to lay this on the oil companies and speculators, although they certainly helped speed up the inevitable.

Looking like it may be chap 11 for at least one of them. In an article I just read, the point was made that the auto cos are more than a little responsible for the position they find themselves in because they have FOUGHT congressional attempts to mandate better fuel mileage standards FOR YEARS.

Make your bed, lie in it.

 

[cigdaze]

It's not just the big 3 companies either. It's not just the plants. It's all the suppliers, support services, dealerships, maintenance and service, etc., etc. We're talking possibly millions of folks nationwide....Not to mention the 10s of millions of people with gm/ford/chrysler vehicles who will be left holding the bag. This will be the nail in the coffin signaling widespread depression. Something's got to be done. But costs must be trimmed, and that means folks going back to honest 8 hour shift, with reasonable pay.

It's the phucker working 3,75 hours a day making 45 bucks an hour turning a single bolt a few times a day that put them in this position.

 

[itilldo]

Yer right, it's not that cut and dry. I also think you are wrong to lay this on the oil companies and speculators, although they certainly helped speed up the inevitable.

Looking like it may be chap 11 for at least one of them. In an article I just read, the point was made that the auto cos are more than a little responsible for the position they find themselves in because they have FOUGHT congressional attempts to mandate better fuel mileage standards FOR YEARS.

Make your bed, lie in it.

I really did not mean that the oil Companies did this intentionally,, what was in my head and not being stated properly was that they continued to push the envelope as they should but the bubble burst. The rising fuel prices took monies away from people who were already in houses that they should not have had and then the miss payments because the displaced monies went to higher fuel costs, etc and here we are...

 

[DollaBill]

Doesn't look good for the car boys after watching testimony today. And the G4's didnt help. What a bunch of idiots.

 

[phragle]

well, dana just offered buy-outs to their engineers,(gm tech center) saying you can take it, if you don't we can't gaurantee your jobs will last long.... now if the automakers need to come up with new platforms, more streamlined mfg. and improve what they have now, aren't the engineers the very people you need??? and we wonder why the big 3 have problems....

 

[Spicy]

Watching the Nightly News right now, I think I heard this right GM stock at just over $2 a share it hasnt been that low since 1942.... Thats not good

 

[itilldo]

well, dana just offered buy-outs to their engineers,(gm tech center) saying you can take it, if you don't we can't gaurantee your jobs will last long.... now if the automakers need to come up with new platforms, more streamlined mfg. and improve what they have now, aren't the engineers the very people you need??? and we wonder why the big 3 have problems....

Dana plant down the road from us told their salaried folks Monday that they are cutting 15 % out of the front office and also informed them that the plant might be closing.... 200-300 people

Johnson Controls in Cadiz, Ky 22 miles form here is closing in the next month 500-600 people out of work.

 

[jayboat]

I really did not mean that the oil Companies did this intentionally,, what was in my head and not being stated properly was that they continued to push the envelope as they should but the bubble burst. The rising fuel prices took monies away from people who were already in houses that they should not have had and then the miss payments because the displaced monies went to higher fuel costs, etc and here we are...

All true... and just one piece of the puzzle.

One thing for sure- there is some pain coming.

 

[Von Bongo]

OK, how many jobs lost in the financial services in the last 12 months. Citi alone 77,000 jobs. NY City 165,0000 how many builders, realtors, mortgage brokers throughout the country.

Now lets say GM fails why are all the suppliers going down? If 12 million cars are the demand in the next 12 months SOMEONE has to build those cars, parts have to come from somewhere, they just don't magically appear. Does Honda and Toyota have the excess capacity, if not they have to hire more workers, former GM workers and suppliers to build them.

All the CEOs expect the a recovery in 8 months, mid 2009. Ain't happening, even if the market levels, people have lost generational wealth. Last thing on their mind is going out and buying a car from a company that just had to be bailed out.

Face it, it's over for GM for sure in it's current form. Chrysler too, maybe Ford can survive because they at least can pick up some market share and can get by without the bailout til 2010.

Having said that I think they will loan them money and in 6 months we'll be talkin about it again and Obama will throw more good money after bad.

 

[DollaBill]

I dont think there will be a 12 million vehicle/yr demand for 10 years. Maybe 6-8. EVERYONE is slowing down. "My truck is fine. I'll hang on to it 1 more year even though I get a new one every 3 years".

The american pysche has been altered forever. At least until everything is fine and then those kids grow up to be the phuking idiots that run wall street and Detroit. Kinda sound like the 30's to the 1980's and now here we are. Coincidence? hmmm

 

[pullmytrigger]

It's the phucker working 3,75 hours a day making 45 bucks an hour turning a single bolt a few times a day that put them in this position.

Sorry - that stereotypical worker left in the 70s......for the last 20 yrs a guy on the line works 50 seconds out of a minute.....8 hrs a day......no air conditioning......wanna trade places??.....after every job you have to hit a button on a keyboard thats linked directly to detroit to signal youve done your job....you cant keep up, you'll get a chittyer job like standing and working over your head underneath the car for 50 sec every minute......they have to force the guys to take overtime.....nobody wants it....too tired at the end of 8hrs......my buddies say when they first started (20 yrs ago) you could work in an area for a year or two and get a "good" job, maybe work up the line and get 10 or 15min to yourself, none of that for years.....now "they all suck".......a guys retires he is never replaced......everyone around him gets more work

 

[DollaBill]

Sorry - that stereotypical worker left in the 70s......for the last 20 yrs a guy on the line works 50 seconds out of a minute.....8 hrs a day......no air conditioning......wanna trade places??.....after every job you have to hit a button on a keyboard thats linked directly to detroit to signal youve done your job....you cant keep up, you'll get a chittyer job like standing and working over your head underneath the car for 50 sec every minute......they have to force the guys to take overtime.....nobody wants it....too tired at the end of 8hrs......my buddies say when they first started (20 yrs ago) you could work in an area for a year or two and get a "good" job, maybe work up the line and get 10 or 15min to yourself, none of that for years.....now "they all suck".......a guys retires he is never replaced......everyone around him gets more work

You mean.......................................


A JOB?

 

[pullmytrigger]

How hard would it be to divert $25b out of $700b to help our auto industry? Yes make them dangle with strings attached(fuel-efficient vehicles and suchlike) but to kill a whole industry and leave it to Japan?? Unthinkable.

GM makes lots of fuel efficient vehicals......the cobalt and aveo are as good as almost anything in pure mpg......too bad nobody buys them.....whens the last time you saw an aveo compared to a Honda.


Lack of SALES are killing the big 3

 

[pullmytrigger]

You mean.......................................


A JOB?

just stating the the facts is all.....they get a bum rap....where I am now I wouldnt trade places with them.......how about you???

 

[DollaBill]

It's not a matter of trading places with them. I'm not trying to break you balls either bro.

I didn't go to college and lived on a can of coca cola and 2 cupcakes for lunch everyday for over a year when I moved out at 18. You get what you bargain for, not what you deserve.

 

[Ratickle]

Congress bailed out the fat cat financiers and not the auto industry that employs 3,000,000 people??? What sense does that make??

None what so ever. They shouldn't have. But, it's the wall street guys and the bankers that gave them the most money, not the blue collar worker guys.

 

[Expensive Date]

I am not a fan of bailouts but if I was in position of power I would

LOAN them each 5 billion

Make every new car that gets over 25mpg eligible for a 60% tax deduction over three years

Use part of the stimulus package to make money available for low interest new car loans with a 660 score.

If you like these ideas vote
Sharkey/Palin 2012