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Anyone taking odds on the auto industry bail-out?

MarylandMark said:
I'm torn-

I've been union labor for 15+ years. I signed on to this company because of the free medical, dental, vision, pension, pay, etc. When I retire I also expect free medical, dental, vision, pension. If they didn't offer that I would have gone to work some place else. I'm anti-union btw.

Union or no union- what is wrong with wanting a living wage? A wage you can actually live on- not one of the working poor. UAW getting $30 an hour is not the problem.

Start at the top:

Chief Executive Rick Wagoner's salary and other compensation rose 64 percent in 2007 to about $15.7 million.

Fritz Henderson, who was promoted to president and chief operating officer in March, received compensation of about $9.3 million in 2007, up from about $5.1 million in 2006.

Vice Chairman Bob Lutz's compensation rose to about $9 million in 2007, from about $5.1 million in 2006.

Ford Motor Co Chief Executive Alan Mulally had earned more than $22 million in 2007

Chrysler's Nardelli is only making $1 a year after he rolled out of Home Depot making $347M in 2007 in golden parachute and severance packages. They are called golden because the rest of us are getting pissed on.


ps- Honda has never had an unprofitable year. It has never had to lay off employees. Honda doesn't disclose executive pay in detail, but the sum of salaries and bonuses that Fukui shares with 36 board members, $13 million.
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The biggest problem is the guarantied pay, retired workers health care and job banks, when sale decline any company has to be able to reduce cost which the auto makers can't do. The jobs bank alone is costing over 2 billion a year.
 
Oh, and I'm with you on the 30MM plan as long as our cocktail costs are included. Friggin pork! And Cash bar wasn't serious. We could go at least TWO months on 100k at Blue :)
 
Audiofn said:
While it is easy to try and say that the guys on top should not be able to fly in a private plane and should not be able to have their "golden Parachutes" then how do you plan to entice a good guy in to a failing company? Do you think that Toyota, Honda.... pay thier exect small patato's? Of course not!

QUOTE]

Pay for performance; incentive pay; whatever you want to call it; we cannot afford to give bailout money to exec's who are the ones responsible for the situation in the first place, nor condone the unions position. They both need to give in order to make the companies vaible again. Until then no bailout; let'em go C11.

I mean what would you rather have, a fair paying job or no job. Of course that's a tough decision now that Barry's been elected. You'd probably be better off not working. :(
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You know - I just had a thought.

Where will Mercury get blocks from??? regardless of demand, it's crazy to think you may not be able to get a new GM block if this happens

crazy.
 
Dollabill said:
You know - I just had a thought.

Where will Mercury get blocks from??? regardless of demand, it's crazy to think you may not be able to get a new GM block if this happens

crazy.
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Aftermarket will become oem. You can already build a "GM" engine without actually getting a single part from GM. Somebody correct me if I am wrong. But I am pretty sure.
 
Chapter 11 Bankruptcy may help the big 3 survive, but it hurts every firm that supplies parts to them (and the second and third tier fims too). In 2005 Delphi declared chapter 11 and did not pay one vendor! The original goal was to break all of the unfavorable union contracts and then reorganize. Three years later and they are still in Chapter 11 and Delphi's vendors have yet to be paid. They owe my company a large chunk of change. If GM, Ford or Chrysler go Chapter 11, they will be able to cancel union contracts, but you will see a lot of small firms go under when the big 3 dont pay their bills. You wont see any of these firms getting bail outs either (I doub't it will even make the news).
 
Yes, you can def get other blocks (alum etc.) But what about the "production" boat engines? It will change the way everything gets serviced due to non-uniform parts etc.
 
You guys want to make this so complicated.....its the UAWs fault, Rick Wagoneer is too highly paid etc etc......bottom line......the cars arnt selling.......END of story!......if the big three were selling so many cars that the Toyota and Nissan plants were idle and closing down due to lack of orders youd pay Wagoneer 30 mil a year and love the guy.

Kock it off with all this BS.......the only REAL question is why arnt the cars selling????

I think this little I swear to god true story about sums it up.......my stepsons girlfriends parents have matching Trailblazers, his black, hers red........ok fine....but when they wanted a RELIABLE car for their darling, precious, defenceless little daughter (the girlfriend) to drive back and forth to University, a two hour drive one way sometimes in snowy, nasty weather and sometimes OMG! after dark!!....... what do you think they bought her?????........you guessed it, a Toyota Corolla........true story
 
B I G - 3 COME ON C E O s ASK FOR MONEY AND come on the company LEAR JET'S WHAT EVER HAPPEN TO DOWN SIZEING YOU D I C K H E A D S !!!!!
 
Tommy Gun said:
I mean what would you rather have, a fair paying job or no job. Of course that's a tough decision now that Barry's been elected. You'd probably be better off not working. :(
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+1 on both points!

Awaken said:
Chapter 11 Bankruptcy may help the big 3 survive, but it hurts every firm that supplies parts to them (and the second and third tier firms too).
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Exact reason I'm not a fan of C11. Sell the assets- even if just for scrap metal- and that 3 million figure affected drops drastically. They will have to move on to make some thing else for someone else but long term they most likely would be better off doing that anyway. 1.5M Big 3 cars were bought this year- if they weren't around someone else would have to fill that void. Why didn't someone that bought a Honda buy a Yugo? They aren't around anymore but they still needed a car; see void filled.

pullmytrigger said:
bottom line......the cars arnt selling
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Yep! This is the biggest reason I'm not a fan of saving them; they couldn't save themselves even with a bailout. It's been said many times before they made big bucks on the gas hogs, only made the econoboxes to meet CAFE- not sure if it is true or not but sounds about right.
 
some of you guys really think that it will only effect about 250 K people???

If Ford and GM go out of business and we close our plant along with the other automotive plants (Tier 1 and 2 suppliers) in the area, this town of 30,000 and surrendering area will be affected directlly.. its not the GM and Ford guys that get the pinch.....this will be a true domino effect on how it effects the economy. People who don't have jobs at the Tier 1, well we don't need that many people at Wal-Mart, Applebee's, or the local Car dealership...etc, etc. cut them down as well and then you even have more out of work.

A comment earlier by " Audiofn" was about the the textile industry drying up (you mean moving over sea's) well this industry employee's a hell of a lot more people and the domino effect will be much much greater. This will be a total depression... much worse than anything any of us know about by first hand.....

Watch this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72cHfOKoA1c&eurl
 
the GM pick up truck assembly plant 3 mi from my house, where several of my friends work even a year and a half ago ran 3 shifts 24 hours A DAY since like 1995!!!......now, that "golden" plant is down to one shift and slated to close!!!.....WOW!!!!...... why???.....lack of orders!!!!

I personally thank the oil speculators for driving the price of oil out of site out of pure GREED and killing the domestic truck market, the only profitable segment the big three had......doug
 
itilldo said:
some of you guys really think that it will only effect about 250 K people???

If Ford and GM go out of business and we close our plant along with the other automotive plants (Tier 1 and 2 suppliers) in the area, this town of 30,000 and surrendering area will be affected directlly.. its not the GM and Ford guys that get the pinch.....this will be a true domino effect on how it effects the economy. People who don't have jobs at the Tier 1, well we don't need that many people at Wal-Mart, Applebee's, or the local Car dealership...etc, etc. cut them down as well and then you even have more out of work.

A comment earlier by " Audiofn" was about the the textile industry drying up (you mean moving over sea's) well this industry employee's a hell of a lot more people and the domino effect will be much much greater. This will be a total depression... much worse than anything any of us know about by first hand.....

Watch this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72cHfOKoA1c&eurl
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I don't want anyone to see pain, but someone has to right now.

Here is the fundemental difference is this-

Why does your town get to survive?
Why do we have to look out for those people?
Why can't those people look out for themselves?
Why can't they relocate to where they can make a nice living?

It's a MUCH bigger picture
 
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