Where to purchase crate motors?

[Uncle Dave]

I am not arguing with you, I just want to get to the bottom of this. Just stating some of my own experiences. You are the first one to engage me on this subject matter to any degree. I have posed the question many times over the years with no real response.:USA:

It always kind of bugged me when someone stated that you can't be a automotive builder and a marine builder.
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My experience mirrors 2112's. IF you build an engine for endurance racing it will hold up in a boat.

The old drag race guy that built the 406 for my boat built it like an endurance racer. This guy put together a nasty small block that has lasted a decade enduring tons of punishment and has been about as reliable as an anvil.

For sure cam selection and exhaust are critical, but the marine engine has a few bennies the auto environment doesnt - like an unlimited supply of cold water to cool the oil, fuel and engine.

The guy also had decades of experience building engines, used great parts and didn't take shortcuts with the machining. He side bolted the block etc.

All that to say I think the poster Sunsation can get it done with crate engines built right, but I dont think the poster can get 2 for 15K, with all the needed accessories. I also think a set of take out big block is a better choice in the long run.

UD

 

[TCEd]

I am not arguing with you, I just want to get to the bottom of this. Just stating some of my own experiences. You are the first one to engage me on this subject matter to any degree. I have posed the question many times over the years with no real response.:USA:

It always kind of bugged me when someone stated that you can't be a automotive builder and a marine builder.
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I would think a GOOD builder could build a marine, automotive or lawnmower engine. Finding that builder may be a problem.
ed

 

[2112]

I do a large amount of my own assembly. I specify exactly what I want from the machinist although I have moved to having a retired NASCAR engine builder completely do my cylinder heads so that they can have nuts on geometry. I also have moved to Bob Madera cams for my next pair of motors as my old cams, which make great power, beat up on the valvetrain.

As a side note. I do have 180 degree coolant temps and I just replaced pistons with .010" piston to wall. Two issues I had was too much blow-by as I mentioned and skirts that scraped the bottoms of the bores at 6400 plus. The bore bottoms are chamfered too. After much deliberation we decided the looseness was a contributing factor. My new Eliminator blocks have .500" longer bores which will resolve it. (4.5" stroke and 6.800 rods BTW)
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[2112]

There was a thread years ago on how to marinize the Z572 GM crate motors and the big issue of that thread was loosening the valve guides.
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[Geronimo36]

My experience mirrors 2112's. IF you build an engine for endurance racing it will hold up in a boat.

more like enduro engines.....

Looks like a lot of us are on the same page, I said that in my previous post.

 

[h2oMag]

WOW you guy's are awesome right to work for me thanks SOS! I wish your leader was that good:rofl: The boat is a 32' Sunsation with no power! I want to go for some small blocks to save fuel and weight. I was wanting (crate motors) just because turn key brand new power. But now you have got me thinking that I can have someone build motors and buy headers for those motors. I was hoping not to go over $15,000.00 for the pair. I live in St. Clair Shores, MI. Thanks again I looked at used and you never know what you are getting, I am not good with engines I just want to turn the key and cruise:driving:

Try Len at Millennyum Marine here in Chesterfield Twp Mi. [586/725-6981] Len just built 3 big blocks for a 43' Cary my brother is restoring.

 

[Expensive Date]

Even though that's a 6.3L engine, it's really a stroked 5.7L small block. Do you have the 6.2L Horizon's?

No 6.2 raw water.

 

[Trim'd Up]

I believe on mild engines, building it to standard "car spec" is fine. There is no difference in the base merc engines vs what's in a Chevy truck. Hell, I have dropped junk yard motors in ski boats, just to get through the summer, that have lasted YEARS with no problems. I think when you start pushing much past 1 hp/ci you better have things right. I think valve train is much more important than clearances anyway, within reason of course.

 

[Geronimo36]

I believe on mild engines, building it to standard "car spec" is fine. There is no difference in the base merc engines vs what's in a Chevy truck. Hell, I have dropped junk yard motors in ski boats, just to get through the summer, that have lasted YEARS with no problems. I think when you start pushing much past 1 hp/ci you better have things right. I think valve train is much more important than clearances anyway, within reason of course.

that's pretty much true! Merc's tolerances up to the HP465 are fairly standard. Once you get to the HP500 they change.

 

[Geronimo36]

No 6.2 raw water.

Tim,

I'd have to check, you might be able to use the intake/injectors and computer etc. but I'm sure the computer would need to be re-mapped.

I'd have to check more into it because I haven't done it or heard about it.

Frank

 

[FULL FORCE]

.003 isn't too tight for a BBC, you can even go .0025 but no tighter than that. #5 should be more though (0035 - .004). Rods should be .0025 - .0035.

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I run my mains at .003, #5 at .0035 and rods at .028 with coated bearings, but use HV pumps with those clearances, a few guys told me standard was ok and I burned up mains 2 times last season, now I use HV pumps with pressure bumped, I have 76 cold each engine and 40-45 at idle after a run, I have had no issues since.

 

[FULL FORCE]

I did have a friend use 2 ZZ502's from Summit in the past, put marine cams in and even used the regular exhaust valves for one season, no issues, he put 450hrs on the shortblocks with no problems till he burned a piston from other issues..

 

[Geronimo36]

I run my mains at .003, #5 at .0035 and rods at .028 with coated bearings, but use HV pumps with those clearances, a few guys told me standard was ok and I burned up mains 2 times last season, now I use HV pumps with pressure bumped, I have 76 cold each engine and 40-45 at idle after a run, I have had no issues since.

I've never tried the coated bearings, how do you like them? How do they show wear after say 200 hrs? Mikes280 on boatfreaks and a few others speak highly of them! I'm doing a re-fresh this winter so I might try. I always use HV pumps as well. I run 70-75 psi hot and 40-50 lbs @ idle hot.

For a number of years I subbed out my engine work but now that money is tight I'll be doing my own stuff again! Not lookin forward to it but ya do what ya gotta do for the love of the sport! I guess my wife will have to live with the smell of engine in the garage this winter! :leaving:

 

[FULL FORCE]

I've never tried the coated bearings, how do you like them? How do they show wear after say 200 hrs? Mikes280 on boatfreaks and a few others speak highly of them! I'm doing a re-fresh this winter so I might try. I always use HV pumps as well. I run 70-75 psi hot and 40-50 lbs @ idle hot.

For a number of years I subbed out my engine work but now that money is tight I'll be doing my own stuff again! Not lookin forward to it but ya do what ya gotta do for the love of the sport! I guess my wife will have to live with the smell of engine in the garage this winter! :leaving:

I have loved the coated bearings on my car engines, I have to pull one of my boat engines apart this winter due to breaking a valve, I will post how the bearings look, usually they look new when coming out, what I like is if you run low on oil for any reason or get water in oil, the coated bearings by some time and don't wipe nearly as fast as a regular bearing so you don't ruin crank journals.

I will never build another engine without them!

Keep in mind, the coated bearings make clearances tighter so machine accordingly!! I check every single clearance before assembly, not plastigauge. My buddy shims the oil pumps for me to keep pressure up with looser clearances..

 

[fund razor]

I have loved the coated bearings on my car engines, I have to pull one of my boat engines apart this winter due to breaking a valve, I will post how the bearings look, usually they look new when coming out, what I like is if you run low on oil for any reason or get water in oil, the coated bearings by some time and don't wipe nearly as fast as a regular bearing so you don't ruin crank journals.

I will never build another engine without them!

Keep in mind, the coated bearings make clearances tighter so machine accordingly!! I check every single clearance before assembly, not plastigauge. My buddy shims the oil pumps for me to keep pressure up with looser clearances..

Might as well stop building them without Inconels?

 

[FULL FORCE]

Might as well stop building them without Inconels?

Yea.... I know, I was playing with fire and lost, budget got tight last year... oopsie...

 

[fund razor]

Yea.... I know, I was playing with fire and lost, budget got tight last year... oopsie...

That's ok... I had Inconels but no boating... so really... you had a better season.

 

[FULL FORCE]

That's ok... I had Inconels but no boating... so really... you had a better season.

Kinda, ended chitty... cracked cylinder wall and hole in piston, I will sleeve it though, I ran the last boat with stainless valves and never had an issue, thought I had more time.. oh well!!

 

[Mrhorsepower1]

In a lot of cases yes.. it's not 1:1.

Run tight bearing clearances in a boat, chances are it wont last long.

An engine builder who can build a good car engine can also build a good boat engine so long as they are educated on the differences, proper clearances and what to look out for. I'm sure they can do just as well... It's not rocket science, it's just knowing the differences. another example is copper head gaskets...the car guys love em in blown or turbo'ed apps but in the marine environment they leak water... I've seen it and learned the hard way... Only good copper head gasket in the marine environment has graphite inserts around the water passages and those are custom.. Car guys also like to run tight ring clearances and in a boat you'll have butting of the rings cause they run more load and generate more heat. Unfortunately a lot of car guys don't know the differences and that's why I urge most to stay away....

I wouldn't take a Porche to a Chevy guy.


PS, a lot of car guys were turned marine guys... Richie Zul is a good example... I believe Gellner is the same..

Thanks Frank!..........by the way........I had 23 1-3 finishes in Porsche road race circuit this summer!........I can make ANYTHING run and win!

 

[Mrhorsepower1]

Also check out www.ahdra.com Pro Fuel nitro harley. We are number 2 with Chris Streeter I build for.