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- Thread starter Pete B
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2TR
Competitor
I'm probably worse............
I am not tired of repeating facts....... I am tired of seeing the same things done year after year.
New big money guy shows up, fawning hangers on follow him, rules are thrown out, new classes are created around his toys. He gets insulted by being confined to one group and throws his support behind (or starts)another (OPT, SBR, SBI). His boats grow in size and power until he exceeds every existing speed and safety limit and raises the spending bar across the entire sport. This goes on until his accountants figure out he has nothing to show for x years of playtime and he moves on to buying a soccer team in Romania.
Meanwhile the "little guys" feel left out and "unable to compete" so they lobby for new, more user friendly classes, form a "local group" (NPBA,USPBA, USORA) win races against no competition and immediately feel like they are worthy of a Fortune 500 sponsor and National TV coverage. This goes on until their wives figure out thay have nothing to show for x years of playtime and they move on to losing money betting on 6 football games a week.
Meanwhile, beginners come into the sport with varied size budgets and invariably wind up getting bad advice, making poor choices from a mind numbing array of "Options", and find themselves with a boat they can barely (or can't) handle and never learn what actual racing feels or looks like. This goes on until they get stuck with Sean Stinson's bar taband they move on to an internet addiction based on forums like these, wherein they brag about their knowledge and experience.
.
Now.........
Consider that every medium to big budget guy can afford (and handle) a Super Cat Lite. If they all bought one, you would have an affordable, predictable entry class, great racing, a great entertainment product, a single set of effective safety standards in a controllable speed envelope, and a legitimate reason for someone to sponsor you and get behind your team.
And.......
Consider that every "little guy" can afford (and handle) an SVL. If they all bought one, you would have an affordable, predictable entry class, great racing, a great entertainment product, a single set of effective safety standards in a controllable speed envelope, and a legitimate reason for someone to sponsor you and get behind your team.
Finally......
Consider that every beginner can afford an S.O.B. (Single Out Board). There are great examples racing in Europe at present. If they all bought one, you would have an affordable, predictable entry class, great racing, a great entertainment product, a single set of effective safety standards in a controllable speed envelope, and the ability to step up into a future class with a legitimate reason for someone to sponsor you and get behind your team.
Some things to think about.
T2x
That to me has been the most intelligent, well thought out post (and spot on) that I have read in this thread.
BlackJack58
New member
The Formula Four Stroke Series over in the UK is a great example of a successful program like this. Two classes (21' and 28' Cougar hulls) single outboard - and they have TV, too; BBC Channel 4, and they're also distributed and syndicated via other networks. It's not perfect, but it's pretty damn exciting...
Watch the video w/ this article - it's almost like NASCAR on the water:
http://tinyurl.com/cme97y
Ratickle
Founding Member / Super Moderator
I think they need bumpers.....
XtremeRacing
Competitor
That looks like some fun racing. I agree there r to many classes in the US. I think slowly you will see some of the classes going away. SBI is looking at that now and the board will be voting on some of the classes very soon.
Excellent post.I'm probably worse............
I am not tired of repeating facts....... I am tired of seeing the same things done year after year.
New big money guy shows up, fawning hangers on follow him, rules are thrown out, new classes are created around his toys. He gets insulted by being confined to one group and throws his support behind (or starts)another (OPT, SBR, SBI). His boats grow in size and power until he exceeds every existing speed and safety limit and raises the spending bar across the entire sport. This goes on until his accountants figure out he has nothing to show for x years of playtime and he moves on to buying a soccer team in Romania.
Meanwhile the "little guys" feel left out and "unable to compete" so they lobby for new, more user friendly classes, form a "local group" (NPBA,USPBA, USORA) win races against no competition and immediately feel like they are worthy of a Fortune 500 sponsor and National TV coverage. This goes on until their wives figure out thay have nothing to show for x years of playtime and they move on to losing money betting on 6 football games a week.
Meanwhile, beginners come into the sport with varied size budgets and invariably wind up getting bad advice, making poor choices from a mind numbing array of "Options", and find themselves with a boat they can barely (or can't) handle and never learn what actual racing feels or looks like. This goes on until they get stuck with Sean Stinson's bar tab
.
Now.........
Consider that every medium to big budget guy can afford (and handle) a Super Cat Lite. If they all bought one, you would have an affordable, predictable entry class, great racing, a great entertainment product, a single set of effective safety standards in a controllable speed envelope, and a legitimate reason for someone to sponsor you and get behind your team.
And.......
Consider that every "little guy" can afford (and handle) an SVL. If they all bought one, you would have an affordable, predictable entry class, great racing, a great entertainment product, a single set of effective safety standards in a controllable speed envelope, and a legitimate reason for someone to sponsor you and get behind your team.
Finally......
Consider that every beginner can afford an S.O.B. (Single Out Board). There are great examples racing in Europe at present. If they all bought one, you would have an affordable, predictable entry class, great racing, a great entertainment product, a single set of effective safety standards in a controllable speed envelope, and the ability to step up into a future class with a legitimate reason for someone to sponsor you and get behind your team.
Some things to think about.
T2x
XtremeRacing
Competitor
I'll let you know if i get any more info. on what classses will be dropped.
Sean Stinson
Founding Member/Contributor
Here-in lies the problem...You get a guy that has a ton of cash but doesn't win then whines I am pulling my donuts if you dont give me my own class...
I think the classes need to be as follows
1) Turbine Class
2) Open Class
3) Factory Class
4) Outboard Class
5) Sportsman Class
3 & 4 could probably be merged depending on rules and tech
Now you have the arguement about vee's and cats....Simple bring back an old course that has all the water conditions that have to be navigated....
Remember 7x Champ came out with an old Apache resin bucket as a lot of people want to call them and kicked the cats asses....
Next thing the tech rules need to be adhered to strictly and if you don't win....Well you might try working on your set-up....
If you get caught cheating you get stepped up to the next class!!!
I have a whole bunch more....
Hell you can even have a 2 race format at each event....
Now I am starting to tip my hand!!!!!
I think the classes need to be as follows
1) Turbine Class
2) Open Class
3) Factory Class
4) Outboard Class
5) Sportsman Class
3 & 4 could probably be merged depending on rules and tech
Now you have the arguement about vee's and cats....Simple bring back an old course that has all the water conditions that have to be navigated....
Remember 7x Champ came out with an old Apache resin bucket as a lot of people want to call them and kicked the cats asses....
Next thing the tech rules need to be adhered to strictly and if you don't win....Well you might try working on your set-up....
If you get caught cheating you get stepped up to the next class!!!
I have a whole bunch more....
Hell you can even have a 2 race format at each event....
Now I am starting to tip my hand!!!!!
BlackJack58
New member
I actually like the look of those Formula Four-Stroke Cougar 28's, too - the cockpit cover in the back comes off to access rear seating, if you want to cruise with more than two people...between races, of course. 
XtremeRacing
Competitor
Sean,
I think you have to look at one class at a time, and remove them as you go. It Won't happen over nite but a move in the right direction.
SBI is looking @ pulling the SVL class right now and a hard look at classes that would fit with others.
SS/SCL/750-850 classes for the Cats works now.
SV Unlimited / SV Extreme classes are growing.
Sean Stinson
Founding Member/Contributor
I agree with you that it won't happen over night and that you have to look at each class individually!
I dont agree with the fact that you need so many sub classes with in what should be a main class.....what I mean a 750 class & an 850 class I dont agree with it dilutes the classes and confuses the spectator!!!!! IMHO
The sportsman classes....could use the GPS rules...although I might not agree with bracket racing it seems to be working and has a following!!!!
Ryan Beckley
Charter Member / Competitor
I just spent some time with Gavin Parsonage who won A LOT in the "GREAT" Cougar Honda class. The economy has killed most of that racing too. Did you know that with the big HONDA name behind it, all the TV you speak of, 20+ boats at a race.......THERE WAS NO PRIZE MONEY!!!!!
Sean H
Charter Member
4 classes; entry cat, higher cat, entry vee, higher vee
Superstock (outboard cat with any twin 300 HP outboard setup, already like OSS and Xcat)
SuperCat (Class 1 style, 790 HP/8800 lbs or 900 HP/10,500 restrictors/dyno)
SVL (any 525 HP sealed/dyno'd package)
SV (power/weight like P1 Evo)
Older hulls are allowed to race with allowances to race at the current pace (weight/power/gear etc).
Whatever ends up being the biggest field is your last race on Sunday afternoon. Have another 4 open/bracket/modified classes on Saturday race in a similiar fashion. 2 races with 2 classes each on 2 days would be a good show and easy to follow for the fans. You could even do the heat racing format easily with the reduction in classes. Practice in the mornings, races in the afternoon.
Aligning all the orgs classes together (and class1, xcat and p1 in Europe) should be the first step to promote teams racing in other orgs and against each other. Unification is a moot point if when they all get together there is 25 classes racing. Everybody would know that no matter where they wanted to race, the same classes would be there.
Superstock (outboard cat with any twin 300 HP outboard setup, already like OSS and Xcat)
SuperCat (Class 1 style, 790 HP/8800 lbs or 900 HP/10,500 restrictors/dyno)
SVL (any 525 HP sealed/dyno'd package)
SV (power/weight like P1 Evo)
Older hulls are allowed to race with allowances to race at the current pace (weight/power/gear etc).
Whatever ends up being the biggest field is your last race on Sunday afternoon. Have another 4 open/bracket/modified classes on Saturday race in a similiar fashion. 2 races with 2 classes each on 2 days would be a good show and easy to follow for the fans. You could even do the heat racing format easily with the reduction in classes. Practice in the mornings, races in the afternoon.
Aligning all the orgs classes together (and class1, xcat and p1 in Europe) should be the first step to promote teams racing in other orgs and against each other. Unification is a moot point if when they all get together there is 25 classes racing. Everybody would know that no matter where they wanted to race, the same classes would be there.
Sean Stinson
Founding Member/Contributor
Something like that!!!!
Ratickle
Founding Member / Super Moderator
I may disagree in the short term. And, it hasn't been tried. If all the orgs ran at one race. And they had trophies/prizes for every class, and the similar speed boats ran together, it would make a heck of a show for TV and you could make further decisions from there. Think auto racing where there are a ton of cars on the track for a road race but a heck of a lot of classes.
3 or 4 races, 25 to 30 boats in each race, similar speeds together, etc.
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