Offshore Ginger
New member
Jeff , most likely that was a product that a lot of boat Co's used and it is like a bondo , made by and called Detriot Body Filler .
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Offshore Ginger
New member
Jeff it all depends on what you want to use . Jeff epoxy does not stank and no burring of the eye's and to me it is worth the extra cost because i like a resin that has a longer pot life and work time but in your case go with poly or Vinyl using 1708 . Jeff i would also do the lay different on the transom and that would be 2 layer's of (1708) glass , wood , glass ,wood , glass with more beef then the rest staggered because your layup is only as strong as the weakest link . Jeff i sent you a PM and feel free to call i will be more then happy to answer any other questions you might have ............. ArtieEpoxy it $100 more per 5 gallon than Viny Ester, is it worth the extra cost? I have heard you must be carful about what types of fillers and gels you use with epoxy. How much Cabisol will I need? The glass is thin, about 1/4". I figure on adding a few layers of glass (1708?), 3/4"ply, glass, 3/4"ply, then cover with 2 layers of glass. After running the numbers with 8' per sheet and 33" high, I may need more like 16 yards of the narrow size. Does this sound like it will get me the 2" depth? Now this is a topic that has been beat to death but is wood still the best option?
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insanity
New member
I used between 7-8 gallons of resin on my transom, Baja 240 (24 Outlaw) for reference. You'll use more than you think, that 1708 sucks it up. And you'll need to coat your wood a couple times before you put it in to keep it from sucking the resin out of the fiberglass when you sandwich it together.
jeffswav
New member
What type of resin did you use? It sounds like our transoms were made very similar. Mine had thin glass, 1/4" bondo, 5/8"ply, 3/8"ply, 5/8"ply, couple layers of glass.
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Offshore Ginger
New member
Jeff , Polyester is the most commonly used resin in the marine industry and this site may help give you a general idea on priceing and materials www.uscomposites.com
MOBILEMERCMAN
Founding Member / Competitor
That sounds like a lot to me.
I was taught to wet the 1708 out before placing it. It is quicker in the end and ensures it is wet properly. Remember there is no strength in resin you only want enough to wet it properly. Extra is only adding weight.
Like Ginger stated earlier the pot life on epoxy is longer. On a large repair it is easier to work especially if you are working alone. Nothing is worse than having a large area kicking before you are ready.
jeffswav
New member
Thanks for the link. I however found it on another post and have been looking at it for some time. I got your pm and email, I did not get in from a service call till 9:30 last night, 10:30 your time. I will give you a ring somtime. I am taking a closer look at the 635 epoxy resin, that seem to be popular for marine.
Offshore Ginger
New member
Jeff , just curious who makes 635 Epoxy Resin?
jeffswav
New member
http://uscomposites.com/epoxy.html Is this not what I should be looking at?
Offshore Ginger
New member
Traviss that avator makes you l@@k like such a dork :bump:. I prefer two types of Epoxy and one is made by Shell which skater uses and is my Epoxy of choice for all big job's because it has the longest work time out of any other Epoxy that i have ever used and cure time is 48 hr's so you do the math and second is West System because i grew up using it . :willy_nilly:I love the west system epoxy boysitss goooood stuff
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Offshore Ginger
New member
:bump:You would wish for the slow if you had to glass a very large area . ha ha haus young guys can't sit around and wait for that slow curing epoxy.. we gotta git R done
insanity
New member
I used vinylester on the transom, I've been using poly everywhere else (doing stringers/floor too). I only went with vinyl on the transom because it wasn't that much more expensive than poly but had somewhat better mechanical properties. I looked at it like this: My boat made it 20 years and it was made with the cheapest materials possible, if somebody would have taken a few minutes to seal up a few holes it would still be dry and I wouldn't be going through a total rebuild, so I figure using a decent poly and taking the time seal things up correctly will work out just find.
I think the original layup on mine from the factory went something like (outside to in) 3 layers of biax>3/8 inch of bedding goop> 5/8" ply > 3/8" ply > 5/8" ply > two layers of glass on the inside. After I got everything ground down, in the middle of the transom the glass was only about 1/8" thick. It was around a 1/4" on the sides/bottom due to glassing in the coring.
I don't do it for a living so take into conisideration waste from over-estimating the amount of resin needed for the first few layups, as well as what gets left on the cardboard from wetting the fabric out prior to laying it on the transom. I also added about 6 layers of 1708 prior to the actual wood to smooth/strengthen/level things out, none of which were over-saturated with resin. I left my wood with some wiggle room so I had about a 1/4-3/8 inch gap all the way around that I used resin/cabosil to fill in after things cured. I'd guesstimate my transom at about 28 sq. feet (just about a full sheet of plywood), from the people I talked to after the fact they said 7 was about average. Just throwing this out for reference to another diy guy going through the same thing I did this time last year
I was taking quite a few pictures as I was going along, the project kind of got shelved due to work but I'm getting back onto it now. PM me and I'll send you a link to my photobucket if you are interested.
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glassdave
Founding Member / Competitor
ya know we got a local guy that carries just about anything you'll need
Us Composites comes pretty close even with shipping its still usually pretty competitive. I love the west system epoxy boys
My thoughts on West System . . . . pretty good stuff but WAY over marketed and WAY to expensive for what it is. Dont let anyone ever fool you into thinking they have some secret formula thats superior to any of the others. I use several different epoxies and prefer us composites 635 and Plasco's 3212(made here in MI). A good friend of mine is in the biz of formulating epoxy for industrial coatings. Pretty much all the retailers buy bulk components from Dow or Shell and re package it.
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jeffswav
New member
So how did you do your layup. How many layers of glass did you use? I assume you used (2) 3/4" sheets of ply.I used vinylester on the transom, I've been using poly everywhere else (doing stringers/floor too). I only went with vinyl on the transom because it wasn't that much more expensive than poly but had somewhat better mechanical properties. I looked at it like this: My boat made it 20 years and it was made with the cheapest materials possible, if somebody would have taken a few minutes to seal up a few holes it would still be dry and I wouldn't be going through a total rebuild, so I figure using a decent poly and taking the time seal things up correctly will work out just find.
I think the original layup on mine from the factory went something like (outside to in) 3 layers of biax>3/8 inch of bedding goop> 5/8" ply > 3/8" ply > 5/8" ply > two layers of glass on the inside. After I got everything ground down, in the middle of the transom the glass was only about 1/8" thick. It was around a 1/4" on the sides/bottom due to glassing in the coring.
I don't do it for a living so take into conisideration waste from over-estimating the amount of resin needed for the first few layups, as well as what gets left on the cardboard from wetting the fabric out prior to laying it on the transom. I also added about 6 layers of 1708 prior to the actual wood to smooth/strengthen/level things out, none of which were over-saturated with resin. I left my wood with some wiggle room so I had about a 1/4-3/8 inch gap all the way around that I used resin/cabosil to fill in after things cured. I'd guesstimate my transom at about 28 sq. feet (just about a full sheet of plywood), from the people I talked to after the fact they said 7 was about average. Just throwing this out for reference to another diy guy going through the same thing I did this time last year
I was taking quite a few pictures as I was going along, the project kind of got shelved due to work but I'm getting back onto it now. PM me and I'll send you a link to my photobucket if you are interested.
Offshore Ginger
New member
Dave is right about two things one being that Dow and Shell are the two biggest producers of Epoxy and in fact West System is made at Midland Dow here in Mich along with Several others . I also have a friend who formulates epoxy here in Mich and dave is right nobody has the secret formula because it all is pretty much personal prefence these days because they all claim to have the best product out there no matter if it's Plasco's 3212 ,System Three ,West System , Mas Epoxies, ADTECH ,us composites 635 , Pro Set and the list goes on on and in my case i prefer Shell epoxy that Skater uses because of the pot life along with west system and will be trying Pro Set in the future after the first of the year which is a product made for west system & also made at Midland Dow .ya know we got a local guy that carries just about anything you'll need
My thoughts on West System . . . . pretty good stuff but WAY over marketed and WAY to expensive for what it is. Dont let anyone ever fool you into thinking they have some secret formula thats superior to any of the others. I use several different epoxies and prefer us composites 635 and Plasco's 3212(made here in MI). A good friend of mine is in the biz of formulating epoxy for industrial coatings. Pretty much all the retailers buy bulk components from Dow or Shell and re package it.
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insanity
New member
ya know we got a local guy that carries just about anything you'll need
I've gotten a few pails of resin local from big Brad, but if I need something on the weekend usually go up to Eastpointe Fiberglass in Detroit. Is there somebody else in the Toledo area that has a good inventory?
insanity
New member
Yeah I used two sheets of 3/4" Marine ply. I think the Arauco ply would work just as well and be a lot better than what Baja put in there in the first place but I still went with marine. The biggest thing that helped me was I spent a lot of time dry-fitting everything, so that when I had everything wet and ready to go, there would be minimal issues getting things together before something slipped or kicked off before I was ready. I had my 'jigs' ready, bolts ready, the whole shebang.
1) Mixed up some resin/cabosil to a paste. Spread it all over the transom then used a tile trowel to level it off. I used the pointy side with about 3/16" 'peaks' or so.
2) First sheet of plywood - Put a layer of 1.5 oz CSM on the side that was going to face the transom. I had already coved the plywood a couple times and let it cure to keep it from wicking from the mat. Put that piece in place and used shims around the bottom and sides to keep in place and pressed it into the cabosil.
3) Second sheet of plywood - Put a layer of 1.5 oz CSM between the first and second layer of plywood.
And that was it for that portion. Used my 'jigs' to apply pressure on everything and let it sit until the next time I could work on it (following weekend). One thing that really helped me was I used T-nuts on my clamping 2x4's on the inside, so that I could tighten the bolts from the outside and not need somebody on the inside holding the nuts. Helped out a lot since I was doing it by myself. I also just drilled through everything where I wanted to use a bolt because I already had a ton of holes to fix on the outside as it was, figured a few more wouldn't hurt.
After that filled in the gaps around the edges and alternately tabbed around the edges and layed full sheets of glass on the inside, I think I used three full layers of 1708 and another 3 layers of tabbing between the layers.
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