30' Cat Question

[T2x]

If a well known successful builder offered a new 30' Cat powered by twin Mercury Racing outboards and marketeed it for $89,900 would it sell?

We did it for less...but of course that was in 1982 dollars .

There is no doubt that it would "sell" at some point. The issue is two fold IMHO:

1. You are at least 18-24 months away, best case, from a real market for anything like this, given the current shambles in the economy, the plethora of reasonably current used and new hulls up for auction, with more coming every day, and the general belief among consumers that prices will continue to drop so why buy anything?

2. Following Rik's math, I believe he left out the cost of a reasonable interior, fuel tanks and plumbing, and trim rams for the steering. On the other hand his bare hull weight estimate is at least 1000 lbs too heavy, so perhaps that's a wash. The real point here is he also left out plug and mold development and amortization, rigging and ownership of a demo hull, advertizing, and business start up costs and salaries for at least a year, rent, utilities, travel expenses, etc, which is where every builder gets tied up in his underwear. There is basically no credit or investment interest in something like this at present.

Good idea, Bad timing... IMHO.

T2x

 

[MarylandMark]

an open cc maybe w/ 200's for a fast bay fishing boat.

http://www.jaguarmarine.com/35openfish.htm

but smaller and make that 300's please

 

[Maritime_eng]

http://www.jaguarmarine.com/35openfish.htm

but smaller and make that 300's please

There is a big price break being offered by mercury right now on the 250XS. That is why the price would be as low as it is. 300XS's would be much higher priced and only net you 3 to 5 mph.

 

[Rik]

We did it for less...but of course that was in 1982 dollars .

There is no doubt that it would "sell" at some point. The issue is two fold IMHO:

1. You are at least 18-24 months away, best case, from a real market for anything like this, given the current shambles in the economy, the plethora of reasonably current used and new hulls up for auction, with more coming every day, and the general belief among consumers that prices will continue to drop so why buy anything?

2. Following Rik's math, I believe he left out the cost of a reasonable interior, fuel tanks and plumbing, and trim rams for the steering. On the other hand his bare hull weight estimate is at least 1000 lbs too heavy, so perhaps that's a wash. The real point here is he also left out plug and mold development and amortization, rigging and ownership of a demo hull, advertizing, and business start up costs and salaries for at least a year, rent, utilities, travel expenses, etc, which is where every builder gets tied up in his underwear. There is basically no credit or investment interest in something like this at present.

Good idea, Bad timing... IMHO.

T2x

He said they were already an established builder. So therefore the tooling cost is mute for the pricing model. I was just looking at fixed cost, ignoring the variable such as business overhead, and the all the other stuff we pay in an attempt to see if it was viable to pop these out of an existing set of molds.

I also based the weight on the fact that a 30' Skater has a bare hull weight in Epoxy and Balsa is 2900 lbs. Add something for the Polyester and plywood and use a multiplier. (Unless they make a potato chip boat) so it’s a give and take figure.

The engine price I felt was high so as to include steering and tie bar. Forgot the fuel tanks (someone get a quote from IMCO)

Now, a monthly $1,500.00 ad in three magazines, a boat show that with transportation and hotels will run about 20K minimum for two boats with meals (NO BIG BAR TABS) depending upon where they are in the world and how many they can do. So fix cost raise to $4,500.00 in advertising, three boat shows a year adds another 60K, so that’s $54K they have to have in profits just to get a buzz going. Or they have to sell 3 boats just to cover these costs before they can eat. Hell, I forgot the web site banners.. SORRY SOS!! OSO + PBM + SOS will cost them another 25K for the year for top placement banners. So make that 3.5 boats per year to the cause. Sounds like covering the yearly Union Dues doesn’t it.

On the flip side, I see this all the time. Well Skater gets X for their boats so I should be able to get X minus a small bit as my boat is the same size and just as good as I splashed their boat from a buddy of mine.

I will leave out the company names but minus the splashing comment their pricing model fits this and for a lot of them exceeds Skaters pricing.

Point is, it cost $ to just make the boat. Add in the real cost plus the overhead of shop rent (60K/yr min) Business Insurance 5-10K/yr (based upon small sales figures) Utilities15-20K/yr Phone/fax/email 6K/yr shop office supplies 2-3k/yr Website design & Hosting 5k/yr Fire/Smoke/Security Alarm Permits 1K/yr Labor 2K/WK(100K/yr) for shop plus office girls with fake boobs that sit and txt all day and chat with their family/friends instead of answering your business calls and thus loose prospective customers. Then add shop tools, air compressors, and all the necessary stuff needed if it was a start up and OMG.

This adds 11.5 boats to the cause plus the 3.5 boats needed to cover the other b.s. so plan on giving 15 boats/yr just to be in business and the guy is still living off his family while being a big time boat manf.

Who wants to be in the boat business?

 

[Ratickle]

plus office girls with fake boobs that sit and txt all day and chat with their family/friends instead of answering your business calls and thus loose prospective customers.

Is that a huge expense, or worth it??????:sifone:

 

[Suicideblonde]

Sorry...but the jag cc is butt ugly

 

[SKATIN]

Sorry...but the jag cc is butt ugly

I like the Hull and top speed but the T-Top needs help.

 

[Chris]

He said they were already an established builder. So therefore the tooling cost is mute for the pricing model. I was just looking at fixed cost, ignoring the variable such as business overhead, and the all the other stuff we pay in an attempt to see if it was viable to pop these out of an existing set of molds.

I also based the weight on the fact that a 30' Skater has a bare hull weight in Epoxy and Balsa is 2900 lbs. Add something for the Polyester and plywood and use a multiplier. (Unless they make a potato chip boat) so it’s a give and take figure.

The engine price I felt was high so as to include steering and tie bar. Forgot the fuel tanks (someone get a quote from IMCO)

Now, a monthly $1,500.00 ad in three magazines, a boat show that with transportation and hotels will run about 20K minimum for two boats with meals (NO BIG BAR TABS) depending upon where they are in the world and how many they can do. So fix cost raise to $4,500.00 in advertising, three boat shows a year adds another 60K, so that’s $54K they have to have in profits just to get a buzz going. Or they have to sell 3 boats just to cover these costs before they can eat. Hell, I forgot the web site banners.. SORRY SOS!! OSO + PBM + SOS will cost them another 25K for the year for top placement banners. So make that 3.5 boats per year to the cause. Sounds like covering the yearly Union Dues doesn’t it.

On the flip side, I see this all the time. Well Skater gets X for their boats so I should be able to get X minus a small bit as my boat is the same size and just as good as I splashed their boat from a buddy of mine.

I will leave out the company names but minus the splashing comment their pricing model fits this and for a lot of them exceeds Skaters pricing.

Point is, it cost $ to just make the boat. Add in the real cost plus the overhead of shop rent (60K/yr min) Business Insurance 5-10K/yr (based upon small sales figures) Utilities15-20K/yr Phone/fax/email 6K/yr shop office supplies 2-3k/yr Website design & Hosting 5k/yr Fire/Smoke/Security Alarm Permits 1K/yr Labor 2K/WK(100K/yr) for shop plus office girls with fake boobs that sit and txt all day and chat with their family/friends instead of answering your business calls and thus loose prospective customers. Then add shop tools, air compressors, and all the necessary stuff needed if it was a start up and OMG.

This adds 11.5 boats to the cause plus the 3.5 boats needed to cover the other b.s. so plan on giving 15 boats/yr just to be in business and the guy is still living off his family while being a big time boat manf.

Who wants to be in the boat business?

Jeez, Rik, you make it sound so easy

Like a wise man once told me, mountains look alot smaller from the ground than they do when you're standing on the top.

 

[Rik]

Jeez, Rik, you make it sound so easy

Like a wise man once told me, mountains look a lot smaller from the ground than they do when you're standing on the top.

Hey, I get it all the time. "why do things cost so much, I could do it a fraction of that cost"

Jump in with both feet!:rofl:

 

[Offshoredrillin]

Hey, I get it all the time. "why do things cost so much, I could do it a fraction of that cost"

Crap, if I had a penny for every time I heard that I would be retired, and I'm only 45....

 

[Rik]

Hey, if this company can build and sell them for $89,900.00 each then more power to them. There is an ass for every seat they say (before our economy crashed at least)

Can they viably do it for that price? I would not want to but if the economic conditions were to change, the resources come more in line with reality (which according to some Mercury has begun to see the light for their sins) then possibly someone can make a profit and fill a need at the same time. Especially if the resin and glass prices were to drop as the price of oil does.

I think everyone wants a deal and as the wealthy say "if it's not a deal you don't need it" so to the original answer is yes.

 

[bluellama]

If a well known successful builder offered a new 30' Cat powered by twin Mercury Racing outboards and marketeed it for $89,900 would it sell?

Buddy00, is that you ??

 

[Suicideblonde]

Chris - you have pretty good thoughts - what is your background?

Seems to me the cost of building the boat is the manufacture's issue - the question is can we insure it and we will be able to pay for it?

 

[Suicideblonde]

BTW -Profit is always relative........

 

[JupiterSunsation]

Buddy00, is that you ??

Nah, Buddy/Jim Darr/Wiggler would be pitching a 40 Cat with custom power that has lifetime warranty, free gas, new truck and trailer for $49,999......

This guy is legitimate and could make this deal a reality..........

 

[Team Tsunami]

If anyone could do it this company could.......so I say why not try!!

 

[RollWithIt]

If they can do it... I say go for it. I would be interested in looking at a new 30 foot cat for the price of someones used issues.

 

[Chris]

Chris - you have pretty good thoughts - what is your background?

Seems to me the cost of building the boat is the manufacture's issue - the question is can we insure it and we will be able to pay for it?

Consultant by trade.

 

[MarylandMark]

300XS's would be much higher priced and only net you 3 to 5 mph.

"Only"- we are boaters right? People buy new boats to gain 5MPH :biggrinjester:

Chris - you have pretty good thoughts - what is your background?

:spam: Them just jokes!

Sorry...but the jag cc is butt ugly

But it goes 90! Sharp edges vs "todays" look. They cost a pretty penny as well- forget the # but thought it was close to $300K

 

[Bobcat]

I love the jag cc, needs a radar arch over the t-top though ! it is 37 feet I think