Thinking about a shotgun

[Tony]

A lot of good avise here as usuall. Im going to throw in a few tidbits in response to some of the comments that were made in the thread.

1. Security systems and motion lights can solve problems you may never knew existed.

2. Dont buy a gun for defense purposes unless you have completely thought through taking another human life in its entirety.

3. Staggered loads (shot/bucksot/slug) in a shotgun = premeditated murder

4. Handloads in any defense firearm = premeditated murder

5. Unless you work in law enforcement pistol grips on shotguns are nothing more than a novelty, go ahead, try and argue....

6. Any firearm that looks like it belongs in a SWAT locker (lasers/lights/folding stocks/pistol grips/heat shields...ect...ect....will be viewed by a prosecutor, jury, and far as anyone else is concerned judge, as premeditated murder.

We all have ideas about what works and what looks cool but at the end of the day if you find yourself in a defense shooting you will be faced with a judge, jury, and prosecutor who will absolutly not see things your way.

 

[Audiofn]

So..... with all this talk about what some gun can do or can not....anyone here pull the trigger and offed someone legit in the act?
High-Tide

I am sure that anyone that did have to do this would never want to talke about it. It would change your life for ever.

 

[Never Enuff]

I don't mean to hijack this thread but can either Tony or Chris please give me the specific case citation on the question of premeditated murder ref: staggered rounds being loaded in a shotgun? A PM would be fine
Thanks,
Jay

 

[Tony]

I don't mean to hijack this thread but can either Tony or Chris please give me the specific case citation on the question of premeditated murder ref: staggered rounds being loaded in a shotgun? A PM would be fine
Thanks,
Jay

I dont know of a specific case offhand, I may be able to find one after a few days of homework. The question is, does the liberal gun hating crowd ever cease to amaze you with their rediculous mentality? Seccondly is anyone here willing to wager a possible prison term on it?

 

[Buoy]

So..... with all this talk about what some gun can do or can not....anyone here pull the trigger and offed someone legit in the act?
High-Tide

Woah,Woah, Woah...
Man, if someone did, I don't want to hear about it, and I'm sure any decent human wouldn't want to talk about it.
I think War-time is different, but that is a heavy weight to wear knowing that you took the life of another man. No matter the circumstance, I don't imagine it feels good.

I started this thread because about 10 years ago I bought a 9mm because I wanted something for home protection.
Didn't really know alot about it. Since then, I've done a bit more reading and research. The idea of having a shotgun that simply the racking sound would scare someone off appeals to me. Also the thought that I may be moving to a rural area that has wild critters, and I want to be able to protect my wife and dog's (the dogs are both wimps that just bark alot, and hide).
I don't ever want to kill someone.
I recall making a mistake in my life several yrs ago that got me in a little trouble - nothing too serious, but I viewed it as a problem. I called my Uncle, and said
"Man, I phucked up" he said "did you kill somebody"?, I said "no", he said " OK, then it's not that bad. I couldn't live with myself if I knew I killed someone".
I couldn't live with myself if I killed someone by making a mistake either.
If I am protecting my home and family, I might be able to forgive myself.
The whole idea is to have something for intimidation and never have to use it, or to protect my dogs - which aren't smart enough to protect themselves.
Getting into different loading techniques is WAY over my head.
Fold away stocks and "cool looking" guns is above me.
I like the idea of the 18" barrel, and a simple design - I don't need a pretty gun, I don't need fancy coatings...
I don't plan on having it in a gun case as a trophy.
It's a tool. One that I hope I would never need to use.

 

[Chris]

I don't mean to hijack this thread but can either Tony or Chris please give me the specific case citation on the question of premeditated murder ref: staggered rounds being loaded in a shotgun? A PM would be fine
Thanks,
Jay

There was a recent case reviewed in a law enforcement trade magazine where an officer involved in a fatal shooting was prosecuted. One of the prosecution's prime pieces of evidence against the officer was his own handloaded ammunition. In this particular instance, the officer exited his cruiser to apprehend a fleeing felon that had gotten his vehicke stuck in mud. When the officer approached the vehicle, the suspect attempted to extricate it and the vehicle slid sideways, knocking the officer over. The suspect then attempted to run the officer over whereupon he fired on the suspect.

Believe it or not, law enforcement officers are held to the same standards as an individual when a lethal use of force is used. In this case, an idealistic prosecutor set off on their own personal crusade. The rationale they put forth about the handloads was that the standard ammunition wasn't lethal enough for that officer and was indicative of that officer's desire to kill someone.

Virtually all departments require officially-issued ammo as a result of this case- and others.

 

[Buoy]

Not to make light of this topic at all, but, Chris, is the law enforcement trade magazine bathroom reading for you like the rest of us read Playboy?
No wonder I'm not as smart...

 

[Never Enuff]

[

"Believe it or not, law enforcement officers are held to the same standards as an individual when a lethal use of force is used."

This has been the case for years, in my experience.


"Virtually all departments require officially-issued ammo as a result of this case- and others."


There are many reasons for this policy, this case and/or similar cases may help support the foundation for these policies.

 

[Chris]

Not to make light of this topic at all, but, Chris, is the law enforcement trade magazine bathroom reading for you like the rest of us read Playboy?
No wonder I'm not as smart...

I'm sort of a dork.

 

[phragle]

So..... with all this talk about what some gun can do or can not....anyone here pull the trigger and offed someone legit in the act?
High-Tide

no, but I have dealt with the mess created several times. it's not pretty, it's not hollywood, it's real.

 

[Ted]

The one good thing to remember while reading all this is that when John Lott did his research he found that literally MILLIONS of crimes have been prevented simply by the victim having a firearm. If you read the NRA mag they usually come up with 3-4 stories a month where a person shoots and kills an assailant/intruder. But there are thousands of cases where someone racks a shotgun or cycles a semi auto and the bad guy(s) flee for their lives.

 

[bulletbob]

Get that shotgun. I have a rem. 1100 with 18" barrel and mag. ext. I have decades of experience (competive) with shotguns and handguns. The pump is just about idiot proof. It will pop those pigs in the desert and they are generally fun to shoot and eat. My ex loved the 870 pump. She was 5'4" and 120# and handled the weapon like a pro. She enjoyed it. Like someone stated the weapon is just a tool. I have NEVER aimed a weapon at someone I wasn't intending to shoot. Hopefully you will never have to use it. But, practice like you will. Have some plan for you and your wife and practice this. Such as evac to one safe room and contact the cops immediately. Best of luck with your purchase. The gun shows are a great place to find a weapon. Bob

 

[planetwarmer]

So, are my motion detecting cameras with mounted machine guns showing my intent to kill?

 

[Buoy]

The one good thing to remember while reading all this is that when John Lott did his research he found that literally MILLIONS of crimes have been prevented simply by the victim having a firearm. If you read the NRA mag they usually come up with 3-4 stories a month where a person shoots and kills an assailant/intruder. But there are thousands of cases where someone racks a shotgun or cycles a semi auto and the bad guy(s) flee for their lives.

Exactly the reason I'd like to have one.

 

[Never Enuff]

Ted,
The problem being--what about the ones that don't flee for their lives. If you just bought the gun to frighten people away and you have no intention of ever shooting anyone, I think what you will find is that they will take your gun away from you and shot you with your own gun! Many many people are killed with their own gun--including a suprisingly high number of Police Officers. In the early days the rule of thumb used to be when buying a vest--buy the one that will stop a bullet fired from your own gun. I would never advise someone to buy a gun with the sole purpose of scaring someone away. Many other better suggestions have been made--get a dog, get more lights, get an alarm etc etc. just don't get a gun you are not willing to fire if need be.
Jay

 

[Never Enuff]

Yes--and you will surely go to jail. There is an old, old case that talks about "trap guns" and their use, which is illegal.
(Hopefully your question was asked in jest?????)
Jay

 

[planetwarmer]

Yes--and you will surely go to jail. There is an old, old case that talks about "trap guns" and their use, which is illegal.
(Hopefully your question was asked in jest?????)
Jay

I was just being really really funny.

I actually have 2 dogs (1 big and 1 small), an alarm, motion detector lights, a Remington 870 HD, and 8 years of urban combat training and experience. I would say the most valuable out of all of that is the Jack Russel Terrier. Nothing gets past that thing!:gnorsi:

I recommend the Remington 870 HD. What I always say to anyone who asks me what they should get for personal protection is; "It doesn't matter what you get, 9mm or a 12 gauge. Get something that you will enjoy shooting and shoot it alot. With good gun handling skills and proper shot placement, it wont matter the caliber". The chances of you actually using it for defending your life are extremely slim. If you did open fire on someone, do to the low light and adrenaline you probably wont hit the person anyway. The loud bangs and basketball size flames will most likely cause your would be attacker to flee.

Buy something cool, shoot it for fun, get good with it, and keep it handy.

OR just get some machine gun cameras and forget about the whole thing.

 

[Madpoodle]

I kinda like sunny Fla and our Castle Doctrine laws...

 

[phragle]

So, are my motion detecting cameras with mounted machine guns showing my intent to kill?

anybody remember the guy in the news a few years ago? had a liquor store in fl (I think) theives kept breaking in thru the roof access, so he rigged up a piece of chainlink fence under the access and electrified it, came in one morning, found crispy crook and was hit with manslaughter charges.

 

[itilldo]

anybody remember the guy in the news a few years ago? had a liquor store in fl (I think) theives kept breaking in thru the roof access, so he rigged up a piece of chainlink fence under the access and electrified it, came in one morning, found crispy crook and was hit with manslaughter charges.

maybe but being charged with and convicted is two different things