The Great Unification

[DAREDEVIL]

Very well could be... ???

Trent, Has anything changed since this deal was done ?

You were in Panama City in 2007. It appeared I was the only Professional Photographer that was in the air that day hired by a team. Possibly the only or one of the few that was there covering that race. The only SBI race I would have covered for the season and had no immediate plans of returning unless I was needed.

I wanted to make sure I was to do everything right especially with JC's reputation. SBI wanted me to pay $1,000 to shoot the event, they wanted all copyrights of my images signed over to them, copies of my images, and wanted me to sign a contract in which to this day was never received.
Because as I was hired by a team they allowed me to shoot, being as they did not have a contract with them at the race site... and as long as I did not make my images available for sale. Regardless, I could have done whatever I wanted with those images but chose not to be bothered by the BS.

I have heard of the lawsuit threat given to another photographer who was covering the Key West race for OSS but if that was not bad enough, I also was told about a lawsuit filed against a magazine that had a shot of the World Trades Center taken during an SBI event on the Hudson River. The magazine sold posters as a fund raiser after 91101 for the NY Firemen Widows. Raised somewhere around $35,000 for the charity and it is my understanding SBI sued for those funds being it was shot during their event. To my knowledge, the courts ruled in favor of the magazine because the image was shot in an open public venue...
Simply put as I quote one photographer, "If you can see it you can shoot it" as long as there is no expectancy of privacy.

So my question stands. Has anything changed?

With the TV and CBS and all of the multi million dollar sponsors of a 12 boat fleet, will they now welcome photographers to their sites to provide them the PRESS and MEDIA Exposure that they are all desperately seeking ?

One more question before I drop below the surface....

With all of the sponsors, and of course the photography from FFV, where have all their names and links gone to on the SBI website? If it wasn't for the watermark left behind on the photos, no one would know who shot them or where to go to buy them?
I always thought FFV had a logo and link on the SBI site?

Perhaps all of the media is now owned by CBS?

That might be a breathe of fresh air.

I don't know who ownes the rights...but i can assure u,,that i have seen change ....OH YEA....and i can also assure u that everybody will see that sooner or later...then again,,i don't know why everybody keeps bringing up the boatcount??????
Sbi has more reg. boats then anybody else,,,,if they don't show...what does that have to do with SBI ?????
I don't get it.
If u like burger king better next sunday then MC donalds ,,,is that mc donalds fault ??? just because u like it that day ???
mmmmmmhhhhhhhh
If i had more money ,,,i would race everywhere,,just like i had planned ,,but it did not work out with a BIG sponsor and all i hear is the check is in the mail,,,,so no money ,,no go .
And thats the case for most of the teams,,,,but i do think that this is getting to be a big thing,,,so i spend my last dime doing what i do ....if i am more broke then i am now ,,,i will join the bashing group and be one of u instead of trying to get involved and REALLY make a diffrents !!!!:biggrinjester:

Also ,,,why don't u come to sarasota and ask all this to the people that are in charge ,,,that way u would get straight answers and then u know whats going on .

HOPE TO SEE YOU THERE !!!!!!

 

[SHARKEY-IMAGES]

I don't know who ownes the rights...but i can assure u,,that i have seen change ....OH YEA....and i can also assure u that everybody will see that sooner or later...then again,,i don't know why everybody keeps bringing up the boatcount??????
Sbi has more reg. boats and anybody else,,,,if they don't show...what does that have to do with SBI ?????
I don't get it.
If u like burger king better next sunday then MC donalds ,,,is that mc donalds fault ??? just because u like it that day ???
mmmmmmhhhhhhhh
If i had more money ,,,i would race everywhere,,just like i had planned ,,but it did not work out with a BIG sponsor and all i hear is the check is in the mail,,,,so no money ,,no go .
And thats the case for most of the teams,,,,but i do think that this is getting to be a big thing,,,so i spend my last dime doing what i do ....if i am more broke then i am now ,,,i will join the bashing group and be one of u instead of trying to get involved and REALLY make a diffrents !!!!:biggrinjester:

Also ,,,why don't u come to sarasota and ask all this to the people that are in charge ,,,that way u would get straight answers and then u know whats going on .

HOPE TO SEE YOU THERE !!!!!!

The copyright owner is the photographer that hits the trigger from the moment the image is produced.

"Sbi has more reg. boats and anybody else,,,"You obviously know the only reason for this is that Key West gets attendance from at least 4 different racing organizations and being as it is considered the 1st event of the 2009 season, that number will always artificially inflate the numbers in attendance at any of the future races throughout the SBI season.

In comparison, OPA held it's 1st race with 38 boats in attendance, even more were registered for the event, but some circumstances kept boats home. Prime example: Augie and the Delicate Sound of Thunder. (Health reasons)

Until I see there is (REAL) change in how the media is treated by the SBI organization, it is unlikely I will cover their event unless of course I am hired to.

Sarasota conflicts with another event that I will be covering that weekend in which it is just a few minutes drive. As a freelancer, I need to keep the expenses low and hope to make more than breaking even.

There are already enough people in the Sarasota area that will give the event plenty of coverage. They surely do not need me and I do not need the air flights or hotel expenses.

Best of luck!

 

[audacity]

after hours of taking we got him to 9k!

 

[SHARKEY-IMAGES]

after hours of taking we got him to 9k!

After an incident with a towing company, I can remember OPA worked out a group rate for all of the racers and it just came out of the registrations. This was the year they raced in Ortley Beach which is a good 8 miles to the closest inlet. Everyone was already signed up for the season whether they knew it or not...:sifone:

 

[DAREDEVIL]

The copyright owner is the photographer that hits the trigger from the moment the image is produced.

"Sbi has more reg. boats and anybody else,,,"You obviously know the only reason for this is that Key West gets attendance from at least 4 different racing organizations and being as it is considered the 1st event of the 2009 season, that number will always artificially inflate the numbers in attendance at any of the future races throughout the SBI season.

In comparison, OPA held it's 1st race with 38 boats in attendance, even more were registered for the event, but some circumstances kept boats home. Prime example: Augie and the Delicate Sound of Thunder. (Health reasons)

Until I see there is (REAL) change in how the media is treated by the SBI organization, it is unlikely I will cover their event unless of course I am hired to.

Sarasota conflicts with another event that I will be covering that weekend in which it is just a few minutes drive. As a freelancer, I need to keep the expenses low and hope to make more than breaking even.

There are already enough people in the Sarasota area that will give the event plenty of coverage. They surely do not need me and I do not need the air flights or hotel expenses.

Best of luck!

OK ,,about the rights.........lets say i rent a park for a concert / rock festival....open to public ,,,for a fund raiser or whatever,,,,do u think i would allow any body to take pictures and try to make money from the rock band i have to pay ????????

I don't think so ,,and i think its my right not to do so !!!???

Just quessing here,,but do u think that just because u have a camera that gives u the right to shoot what ever u like ?

No bashing ,,,just curious !!

 

[DAREDEVIL]

Also on the boatcount,,,,,if they can do it for KW ,,,why don't they do it on the other sites ?????? wouldn't that help the sport ???........and the funny thing is they paid the equipment fee already for the yaer ????? then they go back ( some ) and start BS about SBI ????? TOOOOOOO FUNNY !!!

To be ownest with u ,,if i where JC,,i would tell them next time in KW,,,sorry your not welcome and just have 15-20 boats all year steddy ,,lets see where the others would go ???? after a while i tell u SBI will still be and the others be gone ,,,not that i want to see that happen ,,i think OPA does a great job ,,but how long will that system work with no money ????
We have racers that cant race because of no money allthough they would run a business with payouts and not asking anything to enter the business ,,,,makes allot of sense to me ?? mmmmhhhh.

What ever,,,i just should stay out of politics any ways,,,since nothing makes sense if u look at it from 2 difrent ways,,,all i see,,is it will change to the better,,,i di see improvment allready ,,for me and my team ,,,so lets see.

Also ,,what makes u think that any body needs u to cover an event ???? are u better then others ????
Are u the only one ???? if u dont do it ,,somebody else will ,,,who cares as long as it works.......although i like your pictures ,,,but since when do photographers make rules ????
Did u ever try that in nascar ???? maybe u wnat them to do a lap in reverse so u can get a better shoot ???
Go try it ,,let me know how it worked for ya .LOL

C-YA !!!

 

[F1-00 Racing]

Tim,

To answer your question directed to me, I must say that yes I have seen changes. The changes I have seen are directly beneficial to the race teams. In past years when it came to sponsors, I had to fight tooth and nail to get in the door with a potential sponsor. Now, I have no problem getting my foot in the door and commencing negotiations. Will anything come out of them, who knows, as Bruce has said "Time will tell" but at least I'm at the table now. I have even had a few companies contact me. To date that has only happened once in my 9 year involvement in offshore. A definite change in my eyes.

As far as the media(photographers) are concerned, I dont know. I will however call JC tomorrow and find out where your contract is and the reasons why you havent recieved it to date. My number is 321-508-3077 if you want to give me a call Monday-Tues to do a follow-up.


Trent

 

[Wardey]

Bighting my toungue (spel) RRRRRRRRrrrrrrrrrr.....I'm getting a fn headache !!!!I love all you guys !!! Let's race !!! Dave

 

[Chris]

So far, this has been a stimulating, productive thread that has brought some good discussion out. I'm appreciative of the fact that several of the significant players in the history of offshore have come here and shared their first-hand experiences. However, this needs to either continue to be a polite and factual exchange or the thread will be closed.

 

[cigdaze]

Guys! Enough. Quit the name-calling and personal attack nonsense, or this thread will be closed. Let's get back on track and stick to the topic. Thank you.

 

[SHARKEY-IMAGES]

Also on the boatcount,,,,,if they can do it for KW ,,,why don't they do it on the other sites ?????? wouldn't that help the sport ???........and the funny thing is they paid the equipment fee already for the yaer ????? then they go back ( some ) and start BS about SBI ????? TOOOOOOO FUNNY !!!

To be ownest with u ,,if i where JC,,i would tell them next time in KW,,,sorry your not welcome and just have 15-20 boats all year steddy ,,lets see where the others would go ???? after a while i tell u SBI will still be and the others be gone ,,,not that i want to see that happen ,,i think OPA does a great job ,,but how long will that system work with no money ????
We have racers that cant race because of no money allthough they would run a business with payouts and not asking anything to enter the business ,,,,makes allot of sense to me ?? mmmmhhhh.

What ever,,,i just should stay out of politics any ways,,,since nothing makes sense if u look at it from 2 difrent ways,,,all i see,,is it will change to the better,,,i di see improvment allready ,,for me and my team ,,,so lets see.

Also ,,what makes u think that any body needs u to cover an event ???? are u better then others ????
Are u the only one ???? if u dont do it ,,somebody else will ,,,who cares as long as it works.......although i like your pictures ,,,but since when do photographers make rules ????
Did u ever try that in nascar ???? maybe u wnat them to do a lap in reverse so u can get a better shoot ???
Go try it ,,let me know how it worked for ya .LOL

C-YA !!!

1st off you are not comparing apples to apples. Renting a portion of enclosed area of a park, NASCAR arena you are purchasing a ticket to enter the arena or stadium. There are rules that you are agreeing upon when you purchase a ticket.

If I am out in open water it is a different story. Having a camera I can shoot anything in public where privacy is not expected. Remember, you are probably being photographed many times everyday if you leave your house. Cameras are on traffic lights and in many public areas. Great example is web cams. Yes people are making money off those images shot in the open public where some people pay to see that access to the websites. Let's not forget how many people viewed the Key West race via web cam in Mallory Square.

I will not get into all of the photography rights and guidelines which by the way I do not make up, our Government handles most of that.

You think JC would tell them all not to come to Key West? In past arguments everyone said he needed to make all his money up front in Key West to get him through the winter months and fund the other races. If he had a 12 boat count at the Worlds he would be done.

You do not think the more media coverage the better for your events???

Of course no one needs me to shoot their event. But if you were getting free publicity for your event, why then chase me away?

Bottom line, if SBI wanted (at the time) to promote the sport and their sponsors, they would not chase the media away.

I had chosen not to cover Key West not based on boat count but the actual racing. Where did the days of 8o mile racing go ? Races of 30 miles or less ??? Please. See how long the the Daytona 500 would last if they only ran 3 laps...:sifone:

I will continue to shoot where needed. Now that publications call upon me to do so. SBI just is not my 1st choice for geographical reasons and unless like I said, as long as they do not want me to sign over all my full rights to "MY COPYRIGHTED IMAGES" and pay a huge fee that I cannot recover.

Hopefully all that has changed for the better of the sport of offshore.

 

[SHARKEY-IMAGES]

Tim,

To answer your question directed to me, I must say that yes I have seen changes. The changes I have seen are directly beneficial to the race teams. In past years when it came to sponsors, I had to fight tooth and nail to get in the door with a potential sponsor. Now, I have no problem getting my foot in the door and commencing negotiations. Will anything come out of them, who knows, as Bruce has said "Time will tell" but at least I'm at the table now. I have even had a few companies contact me. To date that has only happened once in my 9 year involvement in offshore. A definite change in my eyes.

As far as the media(photographers) are concerned, I dont know. I will however call JC tomorrow and find out where your contract is and the reasons why you havent recieved it to date. My number is 321-508-3077 if you want to give me a call Monday-Tues to do a follow-up.


Trent

That sounds like a positive move Trent. I wish you the best.

No need for the contract now. It is water under the bridge. When I asked their main photographer (at the time) had he signed anything he said no, he just supplied JC with images or video when asked for it.

Don't bother wasting your time on something of the past.
Move forward and hopefully everything will work out for you!

Best of luck.

 

[SHARKEY-IMAGES]

Guys! Enough. Quit the name-calling and personal attack nonsense, or this thread will be closed. Let's get back on track and stick to the topic. Thank you.

What was the topic again ???? :biggrinjester: :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

 

[SHARKEY-IMAGES]

Bighting my toungue (spel) RRRRRRRRrrrrrrrrrr.....I'm getting a fn headache !!!!I love all you guys !!! Let's race !!! Dave

I hear ya Dave !

Once the sport gets over the speed bump, maybe it will all come together....

Until then, "IT IS WHAT IT IS".... or what the people involved make it to be...

 

[fund razor]

I will not get into all of the photography rights and guidelines

There is more? :biggrinjester:

 

[SHARKEY-IMAGES]

There is more? :biggrinjester:

HAHAHA......:rofl::rofl::rofl:

Digital Millenium Act I don't think I could finish reading in my lifetime.... :sifone: Then again I was never much of a reader. I am more of a Picture person.... :biggrinjester:

 

[Pete B]

Why is it the racer's should all come support one oragnization, when racers from that particular organization dont cross the line and race with others??

All this talk of greatness for the sport, can someone explain to me the best TV coverage of any type of boat racing, that has become mainstream??? Even the unlimited's really dont get the airtime they deserve and it is a awesome display of racing!

 

[SHARKEY-IMAGES]

Why is it the racer's should all come support one oragnization, when racers from that particular organization dont cross the line and race with others??

Maybe because they don't want to pay the $500 fines..... :ack2:

 

[Pete B]

Maybe because they don't want to pay the $500 fines..... :ack2:

$500 fine for what?? coverting with the enemy?? Treason??? That's why besides Sarasota, and KW most stayaway.

 

[SHARKEY-IMAGES]

$500 fine for what?? coverting with the enemy?? Treason??? That's why besides Sarasota, and KW most stayaway.

That's my understanding.
I was also informed that was one of the reasons for a team that was boasting about coming to Ocean City and then did not to show...
Things that make you go hmmmmm ??? :ack2: