The Great Unification

[Ratickle]

Factory class had stepped hulls in F1 and F2 in its first year, As the stakes went up the racers pushed harder. It became clear corners were an area where an advantage could be made and boats began to spin more frequently as racers pushed it in the corners.

It is amazing how many races went off safe but people die with full safety cells also.
Steve

If the motor had stayed the 500 carbed, and weight stayed at an increased level, would some, and I know not all, of the issues been eliminated?

 

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

The boat was a an ill handling boat as homologated. The strakes were added without written permission and the boat ran quite well. The guys who played by the rules were less than amused.
Steve

What are you talking about? The first year it showed up in Key West. Never tested. That boat was awesome. It only needed a faster helm and someone who could drive it.

 

[Steve Miklos]

What are you talking about? The first year it showed up in Key West. Never tested. That boat was awesome. It only needed a faster helm and someone who could drive it.

The strakes were added to the boat after Key West. This is well documented ask Chris at Skater
Steve

 

[Steve Miklos]

If the motor had stayed the 500 carbed, and weight stayed at an increased level, would some, and I know not all, of the issues been eliminated?

Clearly parity and cost would. The speeds would be lower but the corners are just that corners. As we made the courses more fan friendly (inshore shorter laps)the number of corners per race race increased and guys cornered faster. Jim Poplin worked hard on designe courses with decreasing radius corners and increasing radius corners to make as many lines as possible in each corner.
Steve

 

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

So the boat got homologated before it was ever raced? That seems fair.

I can't argue what happened in '02.

 

[Steve Miklos]

So the boat got homologated before it was ever raced? That seems fair.

I can't argue what happened in '02.

Boats were supposed to be homolgated prior to competition but again they showed up with no homologation for KW (Pat Patel drove). They (I believe you were in the boat with Welling) raced in 2003 and added the strakes after several races. This is very well documented and came to a head in Milwaukee. I still do not believe they have built 5 identical hulls yet.
Steve

 

[Fever Mike]

Some boats were going 90mph with 500's in '98.

My take is different then some others. The motors were advancing and boat manufactures were willing to make changes. So it went from 500's to EFI's to 525's in a short time and from Factory side by side to Canopied staggered race boats during a 4 or 5 year period. A lot of grow during a time of rapid changes.

The Kilo in F1 back in 98 was 81 and change. Miklos can correct me on this since he owned the kilo back then. F2 boat kilo was upper 80's??? Race speeds were much slower though.

 

[Steve Miklos]

The Kilo in F1 back in 98 was 81 and change. Miklos can correct me on this since he owned the kilo back then. F2 boat kilo was upper 80's??? Race speeds were much slower though.

81.67 MPH F1 Corsa f2 was about 92 Sutphen 30

 

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

Boats were supposed to be homolgated prior to competition but again they showed up with no homologation for KW (Pat Patel drove). They (I believe you were in the boat with Welling) raced in 2003 and added the strakes after several races. This is very well documented and came to a head in Milwaukee. I still do not believe they have built 5 identical hulls yet.
Steve

Welling and Hendrickson ran it in '03. I first got in the boat in KW '03 to test. I insisted the boat needed a faster helm. I ran it the '04 season. It was fast and handled great.

The Kilo in F1 back in 98 was 81 and change. Miklos can correct me on this since he owned the kilo back then. F2 boat kilo was upper 80's??? Race speeds were much slower though.

I don't remember the previous Kilo in F2 , but my trophy from Sarasota '01 says 89.280. The boat set it 400 lbs heavy. After the wet foam around the tanks was removed its speed increased twice to 93 something.

 

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

Boats were supposed to be homolgated prior to competition but again they showed up with no homologation for KW (Pat Patel drove). They (I believe you were in the boat with Welling) raced in 2003 and added the strakes after several races. This is very well documented and came to a head in Milwaukee. I still do not believe they have built 5 identical hulls yet.
Steve

The boat was drawn on paper and built. It was to compete against existing Vs some of which were highly refined and changed over the years. I can not say whether the strakes needed to be changed or it just needed a faster helm form the beginning. It was Peters first V and out of the box {even with one strake change as you say } was superior to other hulls.

After driving very fast Fountains I believe that Skater, power for power can outrun any V on the Planet. We ran with extra weight through most of the season and other boats still couldn't keep up.

I think it was unrealistic to expect boat manufacture to not try to improve their hulls or to pay your Homologation fees on every hull. Maybe that played a part in the demise of the LLC. I can only guess.

 

[Ratickle]

The boat was drawn on paper and built. It was to compete against existing Vs some of which were highly refined and changed over the years. I can not say whether the strakes needed to be changed or it just needed a faster helm form the beginning. It was Peters first V and out of the box {even with one strake change as you say } was superior to other hulls.

After driving very fast Fountains I believe that Skater, power for power can outrun any V on the Planet. We ran with extra weight through most of the season and other boats still couldn't keep up.

I think it was unrealistic to expect boat manufacture to not try to improve their hulls or to pay your Homologation fees on every hull. Maybe that played a part in the demise of the LLC. I can only guess.

Off topic some, but;

How was the speed and ride in rougher water?

 

[Mike A.]

Mike, I was right in the middle of F2 and SV from 98 to 2001. SV was changing motors and weights on a regular basis. I agree you preserved some F2 equipment value, but SV changed frequently for a while. Its still changing.

I can't believe the Super V with 525 and 6's didn't last. Cat light in that configuration is still hanging. When I look at those two classes I think they are perfect. Fast enough and very dependable. It seems that those two and outboard cat just aren't cool enough to get the wealth guys attention. They should be the premiere classes.

I find it hard to stay enthusiastic after all these years.

Jim,

The SV classes did change alot for years prior to 2002. Ask anyone involved in blower boat SV class and they will tell you I wanted to get rid of that class and switch to the same engine SC's were going to use in 2000. I was overruled. We stayed with the blowers one more year until finally, at the Fountain race, when Nigel won because essentially he could row faster than the only other boat still on the course. It was embarrassing and the end. In 2002 we switched to the 525 Bravo package and the class grew for two solid years, produced exciting races, and multiple winners. Then that Todd guy (forgot his name) joined the boycott, OSS was formed, the rules were corrupted and splat, that was the end.

The Factory classes died because we kept switching engines to suit Mercury. The boats got too fast, but also, the SV and SVL boats became a more viable option because mainstream manufacturers like Donzi began building boats based on their production boats, for roughly the same price. Had the boycott not occurred we had estimated that there would have been 15 - 20SV's and 10-15 SVL's for a long time especially since we had GM support.

 

[Wahoo 214]

This is very interesting stuff, thanks for info. What was the big difference to the Skater bottom that increase speed so much?

 

[Mike A.]

Thing is manufactures and engine builders had their own agendas. Boats and motors were going to evolve.

Another thing that happened over and over again is the truly prepared teams got penalized in the name of parody. Rules get written, boats get built to the letter of the rule, it does well and the rule changes.

Jim,

You have the scenario right but the time frame wrong. The LLC created rules to prevent that precise scenario and it worked. OSS reimplemented the old rulemaking framework, and employed the same people who were in charge of the rules prior to the LLC. Suddenly, SC's started going 160 instead of 125-130, the 850 class was created to suit Mercury, no more homologation led to the manufacturers changing their designs from boat to boat, old boats became obsolete, costs skyrocketed and bam, fleets went from consistently in the 80's to now in the teens. The boycotters and their followers were warned and now it is what it is.

 

[Mike A.]

If the motor had stayed the 500 carbed, and weight stayed at an increased level, would some, and I know not all, of the issues been eliminated?

Bottomline is that we never should have left the carb motor.

 

[Mike A.]

Welling and Hendrickson ran it in '03. I first got in the boat in KW '03 to test. I insisted the boat needed a faster helm. I ran it the '04 season. It was fast and handled great.



I don't remember the previous Kilo in F2 , but my trophy from Sarasota '01 says 89.280. The boat set it 400 lbs heavy. After the wet foam around the tanks was removed its speed increased twice to 93 something.

Jim,

Your recollection again is of a different time frame. The Skater showed up in 2002 KW and was an ill-handling dog. It raced and won several events in 2003, however, the team made some unauthorized changes and were penalized accordingly. APBA did not run KW in 2003 and the LLC was gone in 2004 so I have no idea what happened then, but Miklos' version of events is spot on accurate.

 

[Ratickle]

Jim,

Your recollection again is of a different time frame. The Skater showed up in 2002 KW and was an ill-handling dog. It raced and won several events in 2003, however, the team made some unauthorized changes and were penalized accordingly. APBA did not run KW in 2003 and the LLC was gone in 2004 so I have no idea what happened then, but Miklos' version of events is spot on accurate.

I don't know about the handling or changes, but the 2002 is correct.


"Yes it is true!!!!
This is the New Skater V Bottom owned and throttled by Pat Patel and driven by Paul Whittier. This new Team and Boat will be racing this year in the 2002 APBA World Championships November 18-24 in Key West, Florida."
__________________
DPT MOTORSPORTS LLC
OFFICIAL MEMBER OF THE SDT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Mike A.]

I think it was unrealistic to expect boat manufacture to not try to improve their hulls or to pay your Homologation fees on every hull. Maybe that played a part in the demise of the LLC. I can only guess.

You are right, it was unrealistic to expect certain manufacturers to pay the homologation fees and obey the rules which were responsible for growing their businesses with more customers.

As for the demise of the LLC, let me say this again so that everyone is clear on what really happened: The boycott caused the LLC members to throw their hands up and say there was no way to make money and no one had the stomach to spend their own money any longer under that reality. The founders of the Boycott Super Series, have slithered away leaving some well intentioned people holding the bag and now racing is down to fleets in the teens except for OPA which is executing the precisely correct model correctly.

 

[Coach]

OK Unification Interests, heres a cause to rally behind!

Here's where we need to show up guys and gals out-there! Sunny Isle's is in peril! Let's get our boat count notice in there and get behind Brad and Larry 100% with whatever we can!

Coach

 

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

Jim,

Your recollection again is of a different time frame. The Skater showed up in 2002 KW and was an ill-handling dog. It raced and won several events in 2003, however, the team made some unauthorized changes and were penalized accordingly. APBA did not run KW in 2003 and the LLC was gone in 2004 so I have no idea what happened then, but Miklos' version of events is spot on accurate.

Mike I sat out '02. I cannot comment. I understood the boat showed up in KW '02 untested. It showed. I also sat out early '03. I did Pittsburg, Orange Beach and KW. My time frame is not off. I don't know the details of what changes were made and don't care at this point. You penalized a new boat design for improving it. Good job. Same old story a boat does well penalize it. Can you accept any fault in the matter of the boycott? Or was it everybody else's fault?

I was one of your supporters until '01.

It has been a long time since the boycott. I hope you can move past it soon. Times have changed, things are different, and it is time to look ahead.