Socialism

[Ratickle]

Social Security is bankrupt, the news just came out that it may not last more than a couple of years.

Darren Gersh finds that due to slower projected payroll tax receipts combined with higher payments for early retirements and cost of living adjustments, “the era of large Social Security surpluses is over.” According to the Congressional Budget Office, the Social Security surplus will only be $16 billion this year, and only $3 billion next year. In total the recession will shave $150 billion off of the surplus over next three years.

Last year the trustees estimated that Social Security would have a negative cash flow by 2017. But analysts expect that number to move up significantly in this year’s trustees’ report.

We got a couple years.....:ack2::ack2:

 

[PARADOX]

I give you an example how health care and health ins. and doctors billngs sux.

I went to a doctor to have my shoulder checked. The nurse did some blood preasure testing etc.. a few more preliminary things and after an hour I saw the doctor for less then 5 minutes.. He said to me.. you right.. you need surgery..
Some weeks later I got the bill for $1,100 and I talked to the doc for less then 3 minutes.

After the surgery.. the insurance Co. refused to pay some of the bill becouse the doctor had "to manny personnel on staff".. it was not per approved protocols and personnel for the procedure. He had his nurse,, the anistigiologists... the assistant.. his girl friiend,, his sister in law,, his wife.. the good looking babe from next door.. and who knows who else.... padding the ins. bill.

Go figure...

 

[LaughingCat]

If you want an immediate drop in health care costs, then pass tort reform and limit the financial liability of health care providers, i.e. doctors and hospitals. If a patient can only sue for $10,000 then insurance premiums would be slashed and the saving would be passed on to the comsumers/patients.

Just my hopeful two-cents...

We did that in Florida during 2004 elections. unfortunately, the reform did not include a requirement for insurance co's to drop premiums. Premiums stayed high and have risen. Again, left their own devices, they justify sucking more from the doctors.

Doctors have been migrating from Florida in droves because of it.

 

[Ratickle]

I give you an example how health care and health ins. and doctors billngs sux.

I went to a doctor to have my shoulder checked. The nurse did some blood preasure testing etc.. a few more preliminary things and after an hour I saw the doctor for less then 5 minutes.. He said to me.. you right.. you need surgery..
Some weeks later I got the bill for $1,100 and I talked to the doc for less then 3 minutes.

After the surgery.. the insurance Co. refused to pay some of the bill becouse the doctor had "to manny personnel on staff".. it was not per approved protocols and personnel for the procedure. He had his nurse,, the anistigiologists... the assistant.. his girl friiend,, his sister in law,, his wife.. the good looking babe from next door.. and who knows who else.... padding the ins. bill.

Go figure...

At least she was good lookin.

 

[LaughingCat]

Cat, why do you think UHC will work. Is there any government entity that is not bankrupt or going? Is there any government entity that is efficient? Works? Is easy to deal with? Any redeeming social factor? Social Security is bankrupt, the news just came out that it may not last more than a couple of years. The post office system is broke. Fannie and Freddy and their directors and defenders caused most of this. Do I need to go on? Remember the last time you were at the Drivers License Bureau? Is that what you want for healthcare. Some low level bureaucrat making your HC decisions in the future? Why do you want me and everyone else that earns an honest living to pay for your healthcare? Someone has to pay for it. It ain't free.

I actualyl don't think it sould be the traditional style of UHC where government provides the service. I just think the pricing shouldbe regulated on all sides. Basically, commoditize the system. All participants can make more if they do more. So insurance co's sign people up on standard rates, doctors charge standardized amounts, malpractice is limited or non-existent. But the entire system flows through private businesses, but the 'free market pricing model' is not without regulation. I;m sorry if anyone wants to take that as socialism, but considering what it costs me, i think the current system completely sucks.

Now, I am not saying I have the right idea, but it is an idea. And unless the insurance industry wants to rapidly deploy a new program that makes things more affordable, I fear the government is going to come in with something radical and it might not be the best thing. But hoping insurance companies will find a way to save us money is as pointless as to win the lottery.

 

[LaughingCat]

I just sent you an email.

Hi. I'll cehck my email tonight. Hope it's an infomative read that will give me better clarity on the subject. Thanks,

 

[clayinaustin]

We did that in Florida during 2004 elections. unfortunately, the reform did not include a requirement for insurance co's to drop premiums. Premiums stayed high and have risen. Again, left their own devices, they justify sucking more from the doctors.

Doctors have been migrating from Florida in droves because of it.

I would bet that most of the insurance companies are nationwide while the law was only statewide. The multi-state insurance companies were trying to recover losses in other states by raising rates in FLA.

If you read my earlier post, I said we need national tort reform. If the liability is lowered nationwide, then rates will drop nationwide.

 

[Ratickle]

I would bet that most of the insurance companies are nationwide while the law was only statewide. The multi-state insurance companies were trying to recover losses in other states by raising rates in FLA.

If you read my earlier post, I said we need national tort reform. If the liability is lowered nationwide, then rates will drop nationwide.

In Michigan, if you sue for $2,000,000, and you are found 20% responsible, you owe $200,000, 10% 100,000 etc., and all the expenses associated with the suite.

We have tried several times to get it changed to less than 50% you pay nothing and the suer is responsible for your costs too, (tort reform). Voted down every time so far. Scare tactics big time.

 

[clayinaustin]

We have tried several times to get it changed to less than 50% you pay nothing and the suer is responsible for your costs too, (tort reform). Voted down every time so far. Scare tactics big time.

I said that earlier, too...

just try to get 500 trial lawyers turned U.S. Congressmen to pass that! It ain't gonna happen.

 

[rbhudelson]

I'm a group health insurance broker.

Universal Health Care can and does work. It works by limiting access. Most people think that is a draw back.

The sky rocketing cost of health insurance is as complicated as anything else going on these days. People are living a lot longer, we have more and more stress, we like to drink and smoke, eat too much, not exercise enough, don't follow doctors orders, don't take the meds that are prescribed, sue if anyone makes the simplest mistake, force the poor to use emergency rooms instead of urgent or PCP, young (healthy) folk don't take insurance, keep old people going and going, higher and higher technology, baby boomers aging and list goes on and on.

You try to implement HSA/HRA (consumer directed) and the older employee's (utilizers) pitch a fit. Stick with the 500 deductible and the younger people (healthy) won't pay ten bucks a month to be on the plan. Which in turn raises the cost on the older folks.

At some point it gets down to how much are we willing to spend to keep grandma, mom or son alive. It is not the routine doctor visits that are ship wrecking plans. Don't take your insulin and that leads to renal failure. But, you don't die - your cost just went up to 300k per year to keep alive. Don't take your high blood pressure meds as prescribed and you're gonna have a heart attack or stroke - but we can keep you alive. Joints wear out - not a problem - we can replace them (thank god; I had my right hip replaced) for $50k....

The point is there are no silver bullets.

 

[Ratickle]

I'm a group health insurance broker.

Universal Health Care can and does work. It works by limiting access. Most people think that is a draw back.

The sky rocketing cost of health insurance is as complicated as anything else going on these days. People are living a lot longer, we have more and more stress, we like to drink and smoke, eat too much, not exercise enough, don't follow doctors orders, don't take the meds that are prescribed, sue if anyone makes the simplest mistake, force the poor to use emergency rooms instead of urgent or PCP, young (healthy) folk don't take insurance, keep old people going and going, higher and higher technology, baby boomers aging and list goes on and on.

You try to implement HSA/HRA (consumer directed) and the older employee's (utilizers) pitch a fit. Stick with the 500 deductible and the younger people (healthy) won't pay ten bucks a month to be on the plan. Which in turn raises the cost on the older folks.

At some point it gets down to how much are we willing to spend to keep grandma, mom or son alive. It is not the routine doctor visits that are ship wrecking plans. Don't take your insulin and that leads to renal failure. But, you don't die - your cost just went up to 300k per year to keep alive. Don't take your high blood pressure meds as prescribed and you're gonna have a heart attack or stroke - but we can keep you alive. Joints wear out - not a problem - we can replace them (thank god; I had my right hip replaced) for $50k....

The point is there are no silver bullets.

In Oregon they have something similar to silver bullets......

 

[Chart]

There is very little consumerism in health care. The patient has little to no reason to shop as a consumer like they do for most every other purchase they make in their lives. Elective surgeries, like laser eye correction and boob jobs keep getting less expensive each year, just like other consumer items do when consumerism and capitalism is allowed to work. It does not happen overnight, but it does happen. Only when we mess with that formula do prices go up and stay up. Doesn't matter if it's health care procedures, or ink pens, or auto parts. Find an exception, and look into it, and you'll find the formula was messed with.

On employer provided health insurance: John McCain may have been onto something. Why should health insurance come through your job? That made sense somewhat when people went to work for one company for their entire career, but does not today. Too many details to work out here, but I'd like our nation to have a discussion on that. McCain did an awful job in the debates on this topic, just awful.

 

[Tommy Gun]

I would bet that most of the insurance companies are nationwide while the law was only statewide. The multi-state insurance companies were trying to recover losses in other states by raising rates in FLA.

If you read my earlier post, I said we need national tort reform. If the liability is lowered nationwide, then rates will drop nationwide.

Tort Reform will NEVER even be a consideration as long as the Dems control things...most Democrats are lawyers.

http://www.conservativetruth.org/article.php?id=516

 

[Ratickle]

Tort Reform will NEVER even be a consideration as long as the Dems control things...most Democrats are lawyers.

http://www.conservativetruth.org/article.php?id=516

Well written article. That's why it should be illegal for lawyers to be politicians.

 

[rbhudelson]

Well written article. That's why it should be illegal for lawyers to be politicians.

it is a well written article. And I like to lawyer bash as much as the next person but, to me, it's kind of like blaming guns for murder.

We, collectively, are the problem. Not lawyers, not democrats or republicans, not healthcare, not faith believers or atheists, not executives, not wall street. It is us. And as long as we allow this type of stupid chit to continue then we will need more and more lube to accommodate the longer and wider thing being shoved in our collective arses.

People for a long time have shut off their brains. It is easier to believe what your buddy-priest-rabbi-newscaster-internet-politician-neighbor says than to think things through for ourselves. If people don't want lawyers in office - it is really simple - don't elect them.

I've said this before, I'm not going to spend much time bellyaching about what is going on. It is more productive to try to figure out how to profit by it.

 

[catmando]

Cat, why do you think UHC will work. Is there any government entity that is not bankrupt or going? Is there any government entity that is efficient? Works? Is easy to deal with? Any redeeming social factor? Social Security is bankrupt, the news just came out that it may not last more than a couple of years. The post office system is broke. Fannie and Freddy and their directors and defenders caused most of this. Do I need to go on? Remember the last time you were at the Drivers License Bureau? Is that what you want for healthcare. Some low level bureaucrat making your HC decisions in the future? Why do you want me and everyone else that earns an honest living to pay for your healthcare? Someone has to pay for it. It ain't free.

Works for the military and Congress, why not the rest of us? America is the only industrialized nation without national health care for all. Obama should look at all their packages, choose the best of each and send it to Congress.

Social Security is not bankrupt.

Everybody pays into SS and everybody would pay into NHC(National Health Care). Good for people and good for business.

 

[BBB725]

Social Security is not bankrupt.

Hello? Anybody home?:biggrinjester:

 

[Ratickle]

Works for the military and Congress, why not the rest of us? America is the only industrialized nation without national health care for all. Obama should look at all their packages, choose the best of each and send it to Congress.

Social Security is not bankrupt.

Everybody pays into SS and everybody would pay into NHC(National Health Care). Good for people and good for business.

Not bankrupt yet, out of money next year.

For years, opponents of Social Security reform have told us that there is no need to rush into changing the program because, after all, Social Security is running a surplus today. Well, according to a new report by the Congressional Budget Office, not so much.

CBO reports that the Social Security surplus, originally expected to be $80-90 billion this year and next will shrink to $16 billion this year and just $3 billion next year (essentially a rounding error) as a result of the recession and rising unemployment. And those estimates may be far too optimistic. In February of this year, for example, Social Security actually ran a deficit—spending more than it took in through taxes and interest combined.

And, while CBO expects a return to modest surpluses after 2010, as the recession ends and unemployment falls, that is betting on the success of the unproven Obama economic program. If unemployment stays at current levels, Social Security will begin running permanent cash flow deficits in 2011 (eight years earlier than previously predicted).

 

[catmando]

Yeah looks like another problem for Obama to fix. I just hope that SOB Greenspan lost his ass in the crash.

http://themessthatgreenspanmade.blogspot.com/2009/03/so-much-for-social-security-surplus.html

 

[Ratickle]

Yeah looks like another problem for Obama to fix. I just hope that SOB Greenspan lost his ass in the crash.

http://themessthatgreenspanmade.blogspot.com/2009/03/so-much-for-social-security-surplus.html

It's kind of hard to blame Greenspan for a forced loan program mandated by Congressional Democrats. Even Clinton, who started it, said it got rediculously out of control.