Socialism

[clayinaustin]

yes, Cat. it was meant as a joke with a moral. not a real story.

 

[LaughingCat]

Let me add a tid bit of info, here.
I grew up in a communist country, not socialism, but close.
Everyone who worked for the goverment and for the "couse" just worked enough not to get in trouble. Large goverment owned farms did pourly with the crop yield. Many small private farmers... the poor, with their back yard and small ranch time properties worked their but off and the yield per acre was several times as the gov. owned land. My Dad, (and many others) were tabbling in the black market and made twice as much in half the time as with the gov job. The gov. looked the other way with the black market and the private enterpice ventures, since that actualy kept the country going bankcrupt.

Years and decades later.. the communism failed, and private enterprise is going strong. WE have to be very carefull here and not allow our left wing, radical, liberal azzholes taking the country with a system that's doomed to failure. I can guarrantfreeking to you, that even in hard times "ANYONE" want's to work.. they will find a job. Anyone wants hand outs.!?/ well... I have a 357 mag hollow point with their name on it

Let's just hope the businesses themselves don't beg their way into communistic socialism. Right now, it's up to teh government and well-educated people to fix the problem but avoid the socialistic route.

I believe at teh end of 4 years, Liberals will hate Obama more than Conservatives. I dont think he will take the wrong path in the long run. But I very well could be wrong.

 

[LaughingCat]

And as a business owner whose employees make less than $50k/yr, I welcome some kind of national HC system. If they want to tax my employees and me 3% more but give me a huge break on medical costs, I am all for it. And I will net more money to me.

Right now, a $50k employee with a family pays roughly 30% of his/her gross income to the health insurance premium and deductible. I dont give a God Damn about what the health care is like. That's way too much money going to insurance companies.

Besides, some of my staunch-Republican doctor clients are hoping for socialized medicine! No kidding, one said he'd rather 20-40% of all billing than 0% of most from the insurance company. They know they'll come out ahead.

I'm still thinking this through, but more money in my pocket is more money in my pocket. Period.

 

[clayinaustin]

I believe at the end of 4 years, Liberals will hate Obama more than Conservatives. I don't think he will take the wrong path in the long run. But I very well could be wrong.

I also believe that the far left will be very upset with Obama after fours years. While I believe that he has a liberal agenda, I also believe that he will govern more in the center than the far left.

 

[LaughingCat]

yes, Cat. it was meant as a joke with a moral. not a real story.

I love the joke. Just as good as the one about the liberal-minded college graduate who argued politics with her Republican father. She got A's and her friend got C's. He asked how the four years went.

She says she studied like made, got all A's but missed out on partying. Her friend partied and got Cs. Father says, let's call the school and have them average your two GPAs so you both get Bs. She yells, "no way, i worked too hard. that's not fair. She goofed off."

Father says, "welcome to teh Republican party."




I truly hope Socialism isn't coming.

 

[Ratickle]

Besides, some of my staunch-Republican doctor clients are hoping for socialized medicine! No kidding, one said he'd rather 20-40% of all billing than 0% of most from the insurance company. They know they'll come out ahead.

I'm still thinking this through, but more money in my pocket is more money in my pocket. Period.

Tell them to check how much they get paid, vs what they pay out, for any surgical procedures, xrays, etc. And then they will know what a national health care system will do to them.

Or PM Bob the Builder and ask him about how well National Health care works in Canada.

Keep investigating and thinking it through.

 

[2112]

And as a business owner whose employees make less than $50k/yr, I welcome some kind of national HC system. If they want to tax my employees and me 3% more but give me a huge break on medical costs, I am all for it. And I will net more money to me.

You honestly believe that increasing the size of the government by a third will only cost you 3%?:leaving:

One of the biggest factors in skyrocketing medical costs is the removal of the patient in the financial decisions. Third parties, (insurance and government) have been dictating what is being paid and have since LBJ and his great medicaid/medicare debacle.

3%? think more like a 30% increase in your current taxes.

PS; I am not a republican or democrat

 

[clayinaustin]

One of the biggest factors in skyrocketing medical costs is the removal of the patient in the financial decisions.

I believe that a major factor in the huge cost of medical care is the malpractice insurance premiums that doctors and hospitals have to pay. If Congress will pass tort reform and greatly limit the amount that a patient can sue a doctor/hospital for, then the cost of health care will drop.

But, just try to get 500 trial lawyers turned U.S. Congressmen to pass that! It ain't gonna happen. So, what does happen? Our taxes go up!

 

[LaughingCat]

Malpractice claims, admin expenses and everything else drives costs up. Doctors just want to cure people (and make good money) and people just want to be cured. Ambulance chaser, lobbyists and greedy insurance companies drove the expense up. Politicians are just the happy conduit to making everyone, except the patient and doctor richer.

However, I am looking into the malpractice aspect of univ HC. Government is not likely to allow people big lawsuits against doctors under the system, becasue government wil have to back it. But I really don't know much about this stuff.

And, I have many Canadian clients that maintain their Canadain citizenship SPECIFICALLY because of the national HC and reduced expnse on their lives. Also, major auto manufactureres have chosen to build plants in Canada becasue of the reduced labor costs associated with Univ HC. Just saying, if we are going to compete on a manufacturing level, we should look at way to reduce manufacturing costs. It's inevitable anyway.

 

[LaughingCat]

And an FYI for anyone who thinks I am towing the line for socialist thought:

I am an Independent, disgusted with the radical government growth and spending over the last 8 1/2 years, wasted wars overseas and current economic crisis brought on by too much deregulation. I also refuse to tow the stardard line of the Republican party. Government can be useful in some very specific areass where excess can lead to economic slowdown or downfall. One is health care.

Everyone needsit. If left to it's own devices, pharm co's and insurance co's will drive costs to a staggaring level (like they have done) which will cripple our ability to operate an effective economy nad be competitive manufacturing. Something has to be done.

 

[clayinaustin]

My biggest complaint against Univ HC, is the same complaint I have against any government program that takes money away from me and gives it to others. I do everything in my power to take responsibility for my own actions and finance my own life. If everyone were required to do this (i.e. no public aid for anyone), then the non-contributors to the system would die. Yep, I said it. They would die and we (the contributing members of society) would be rid of them!

Let the private organizations (i.e Churches, United Way, etc.) do their part, but leave the public sector (i.e. Federal and State governements) out of it.

I just hate the though of the Federal Governemnt taking tens of thousands of dollars out of my pocket to pay for a heart transplant for some who can't afford it. I would rather keep my hard earned money and let them die!

Just my jaded two-cents...

 

[clayinaustin]

If you want an immediate drop in health care costs, then pass tort reform and limit the financial liability of health care providers, i.e. doctors and hospitals. If a patient can only sue for $10,000 then insurance premiums would be slashed and the saving would be passed on to the comsumers/patients.

Just my hopeful two-cents...

 

[cuda]

Of course, but when everyone is begging the government for money, the government needs to have some revenues to keep going. If people would stop asking the government to provide thngs, like police, fire, streets, etc, we could stop paying taxes. I totally agree the government is too big, but everyone is asking them to fix expensive problems, so they are not going to give tax holidays.

Remember, this problem is systemic. It requires a repair of the system, then we can get back to our fiscally conservative ideological ways.

All the government has to do in my opinion, is build highways, and maintain a military. That's the federal government only. Everything else is non-essential fluff, or should be decided by the states and municipalities.

 

[wantingmore]

And as a business owner whose employees make less than $50k/yr, I welcome some kind of national HC system. If they want to tax my employees and me 3% more but give me a huge break on medical costs, I am all for it. And I will net more money to me.

Right now, a $50k employee with a family pays roughly 30% of his/her gross income to the health insurance premium and deductible. I dont give a God Damn about what the health care is like. That's way too much money going to insurance companies.

Besides, some of my staunch-Republican doctor clients are hoping for socialized medicine! No kidding, one said he'd rather 20-40% of all billing than 0% of most from the insurance company. They know they'll come out ahead.

I'm still thinking this through, but more money in my pocket is more money in my pocket. Period.

I just sent you an email.

 

[Dave]

Until Joe Public is able to pay off his debts to a manageable level the economy can not recover. Repaying your debts and increasing your savings is not an evil thing to do. It is the responsible thing to do. If you can not come up with 20% down for a home or 10% down for a new car, you can't afford them. Only the federal government seems to think it is sound business to give or loan money that has a high probability of never being repaid.

I am concerned that we may be living through the final few hundred pages of Atlas Shrugged. We are rapidly approaching the point where over 50% of the voters pay virtually no income taxes. When you have no skin in the game you have no incentive to bust your a$$ to stay in the game, you simply vote to have someone else take care of you or walk away from your debts.

And no, George W Bush was not a fiscal conservative.

 

[Ratickle]

I just hate the though of the Federal Governemnt taking tens of thousands of dollars out of my pocket to pay for a heart transplant for some who can't afford it. I would rather keep my hard earned money and let them die!

Somewhere along the way, someone decided that we, taxPAYERS should pick up the tab for everyone. Statiscally, 80% of all healthcare costs occur within the last 2 years of life. Someone should, like you said, just let them die, unless they can pay for it themselves.

 

[ChiefApache]

If this was true then why not let the private businesses and the people keep their money by not paying taxes for 3-6 months?

Or give those who are new in business (less than 5 years) a little help in obtaining a loan!:boxing_smiley:

 

[Ratickle]

If you want an immediate drop in health care costs, then pass tort reform and limit the financial liability of health care providers, i.e. doctors and hospitals. If a patient can only sue for $10,000 then insurance premiums would be slashed and the saving would be passed on to the comsumers/patients.

Just my hopeful two-cents...

My bro-in-law is a surgeon. His mal-practice insurance is over $300,000 per year. He's been sued twice and won both. Both times, even though he won, his insurance company had to pick up the entire tab. The new laws should be, if you are an attorney, you can't be a politician. If you don't PAY taxes, you can't vote.

 

[MarylandMark]

He's been sued twice and won both. Both times, even though he won, his insurance company had to pick up the entire tab.

For some reason it has always stuck in my head about the Anna Nicole Smith trial where the one dude pulled some BS lawyer crap. The Judge made him reimburse the other dude for his lawyer as well as the Gov't for their wasted time. LOVE that idea to stop the stupid lawsuits!

Healthcare? I worked hard enough to get a job that offers medical/dental/vision for life. Part of my compentation package. Why should I have to pay for others that can't do the same. If there is healthcare for all; I better get a raise

 

[gerritm]

Cat, why do you think UHC will work. Is there any government entity that is not bankrupt or going? Is there any government entity that is efficient? Works? Is easy to deal with? Any redeeming social factor? Social Security is bankrupt, the news just came out that it may not last more than a couple of years. The post office system is broke. Fannie and Freddy and their directors and defenders caused most of this. Do I need to go on? Remember the last time you were at the Drivers License Bureau? Is that what you want for healthcare. Some low level bureaucrat making your HC decisions in the future? Why do you want me and everyone else that earns an honest living to pay for your healthcare? Someone has to pay for it. It ain't free.