Question - how do we get boats under 30ft to participate in poker runs?

[Expensive Date]

I am never intimidated by bigger boats and have even run in the offshore group with them.I usually do this run but am sitting out this year just really busy not because my boat might be a little smaller.Here is a picture of me running with the big boys

 

[FULL FORCE]

I think water conditions play a part around here anyway. Saturday afternoon around sandusky and the islands you are going to get pounded in anything under 36'. Sure there are small smaller stout boats that you can run but they will be flying alot and falling into holes and the usual wives/GF's will be screaming bloody murder. Those of you have have run around here know what I am talking about.

Very true Tom....

 

[Magic Medicine]

We are doing the same thing up here with our club.
First you have to have a 55mph club.
You have to start in 2 waves with slow first so they can see something all day.
And most importantly you have to stress to your current members with any speed of boat to welcome them and make them feel included.

Especially the HEADLINERS

I agree with this. Water conditions also keep me on the dock in my old 28'. Now if you start me in the back of the pack now I have run on chit water conditions plus all the boat wakes. I like the idea of starting the slower boats first. Remember the rules of the road, state that the boat that is being overtaken has the right away. I think some people don't even know this law, with this applied the responcibiltiy is put on the faster boat group. Another thing is the smaller boat crowd might not have budgeted the money that is takes to do a poker run.

 

[Caincando1]

Good read! I guess we are blessed because the water and conditions of the Mississippi River give us the perfect place for big and small boats. We’re probably divided 50/50 over and under 30 ft. Our lunch stop has always worked out no matter how we did it. We’ve done it where the boats are all spread out before lunch and everyone still made it. We where there for probably 2 hours so the slow boats had plenty of time to catch up even after a long run from the last card stop. What we’ve done now is we are going to lunch earlier and running a pace boat from the start to lunch. The pace boat runs at about 45 mph so just about everyone can keep up. Now we’ve shortened the course and we have a stop about every 10 miles or so. This again gives everyone time to catch up. We do our grand prix start after lunch and we start the fast boats first. But again it’s only 12 miles to the next stop which again lets everyone catch up so everyone feels like they are part of the group. We also tend to “hang out” at card stops, even the on water ones. I guess that’s the way we started doing in 8 years ago and people just follow along. It’s not a rule and not everyone hangs out. But most do and they like the feel of having all the boats together. We also make all of the card stops optional that way people don’t feel obligated to drive unsafely to get to a card stop. We just require that everyone attend the drivers meeting and that’s it. We’ve had small boat opt out of going to stops because of conditions and we’ve had big boat opt out of going to stops because they didn’t want to get to close to other boats. So it works great for everyone. I kind of wrote a hodge podge of thoughts there. I hope some of that made sense.

 

[Geronimo36]

Dave,

I think what you did with the Waverunners is on par for what you can do with a "black jack" type of run. If the run is catered towards the smaller boats you can rope them in and show them how much of a good time you produce, then they'll want to join more runs. In turn they'll also aspire to own and buy bigger boats. It could be a win/win for everyone!

Another point. Running in a small boat with the bigger boats, even in a slow class on inland waters, they're going to get beat up with all the cross wakes. This used to happen when I ran poker runs in my old Panther and that was 30'... I hated the starts cause we were getting tossed around and beat up and had to motor thru to get out ahead of the sloppy water. Once the drama was over the rest of the run was great.

My Scarab only ran low/mid 70's and I had great times at all the poker runs and fun runs that I attended, even though most of the hardware I was running with were much bigger. In fact, I used to make jokes that my boat was cheaper than one of their engines.

One thing that used ot annoy the crap out of me was there was more hospitality and preferential treatment given to the big guns and a lot of the big guns would snub you off on the docks when they saw I had an 86' Scarab... They seemed unapproachable and didn't care much to make your aquaintance unless you had a top dollar rig. Regardless, I personally didn't go to a run to impress anyone or to buddy up with the big guys, I went to have fun with my friends.

The last poker run I was at, the guy parked next to me was asking how fast I was going to run. I told him we were going to run 60 mph... He seeemed dissapointed... Later on that evening I opened up the hatch and he saw the blower engines and then told me; "I'm going to feel really bad passing you at 75 mph tomorrow".. well, he blew an engine that day...

Anyway, lots of ego's with fast boats so if you show the little guys that you're all about having a good time and run what ya brung then I think you'll be golden and I think you're well on your way with that!!!

PS, I know of at least one guy at my marina who will be riding on the same boat I'm going to be on Saturday that didn't enter the run cause he felt it was too small. Me personally, I have no excuse other than my buddy is giving me a free ride this Saturday!

Love ya man, see ya Saturday!

Frank

 

[Big Time]

I have a 29 Fountain and just recently did the NYC Poker Run. I was the only single engine boat the did the run (if I recall correctly). I'm also probably one of the younger guys there at 28 yrs old. It can be intimidating showing up in a smaller boat when you have 800k + boats a few docks spaces over but I don't let that bother me. But I can also see how the intimidation factor would keep some people away, especially because the starts can get a little tricky getting tossed around in a smaller boat.

Things that keep me away are price, and conditions (among other things). I know my boat can't handle the rough like a Cig., so that will keep me away from the big offshore runs. I'm a fairly outgoing person, so I like to go up to the bigger guys and shoot the $hit with them, but I don't think everyone in a smaller boat does that. If you're one of the bigger guys, go talk to the guy in the 25 baja and strike up a conversation. Most likely you started out in something like that anyways so you probably already have something in common!

 

[cashbrain]

PS, I know of at least one guy at my marina who will be riding on the same boat I'm going to be on Saturday that didn't enter the run cause he felt it was too small. Me personally, I have no excuse other than my buddy is giving me a free ride this Saturday!

Love ya man, see ya Saturday!

Frank

Frank,

It was nice to talk to you...
One of the things that I did when I started COPS in Chicago was to have a group of boaters..it didn't make a difference what size the boats were and we did fun runs. No one was left out and everyone had fun. Of course,that changed to a Poker Run with huge power and the alot of the smaller or older boats just sat on the sidelines or didn't bother going.
As far as I'm concerned, we are all boaters and just because you have a smaller boat doesn't mean you should not be able to participate. I just think alot of these guys get intimidated(it's hard not to) and dismiss participating.
That is not in the sprit of what this sport is all about...but, that's just my opinion...what do I know:driving:

 

[Maritime_eng]

This is a great thread and I think everyone has valid points. Here are a couple things to consider.

Most people with boats 30ft and under are doing everything they can to afford their boat and just put gas in it every weekend. Now if they try and do a poker run the cost of this event (Travel, hotels, fuel, taking off work, ect.) makes it hard for them to afford to go out the the rest of the month. The people with the big boats can afford to go everyone of the big events.

Now on the other hand some of the smaller boats are owned by younger people (under 30yrs old), myself included, and get the cold shoulder when trying to sign up for some events.
Amanda (my fiance) and I have tried to sign up for a few of the FPC events and we get the door shut in our face from the organizers when we ask for information becasue we are not the big dogs of the sport.

So we just gave up trying to enter the FPC poker runs and do fun runs with the Fort Myers Offshore group, Atleast here we feel like we belong and they are a heck out alot of fun........

 

[DaveP]

Once again - I appreciate all of the feedback and insight. It will give us something to toss around over the winter.

In the new Powerboat Mag, Matt Trulio did a 5 page spread on our AC Event. I hope all of you will read it. Matt says "We get it" as in the commaraderie we have and the DE-Emphasis on speed and all the B.S. that goes along with it.

But as they say - percecption is reality and if smaller boaters are intimidated by the $500k boats, the key to our future success is how to we break down that perception?

I saw a 22' Scarab exactly like I used to have last weekend. I would have loved to meet the guy at the dock and asked him how he liked it? Because when I had mine 17yrs ago - I LOVED MINE!!

 

[Indy]

Most people with boats 30ft and under are doing everything they can to afford their boat and just put gas in it every weekend. Now if they try and do a poker run the cost of this event (Travel, hotels, fuel, taking off work, ect.) makes it hard for them to afford to go out the the rest of the month. The people with the big boats can afford to go everyone of the big events.

He's got some good points here.

 

[cashbrain]

Again,just my opinion, but I think their is two tiers in Offshore
The big guys and everyone else. The focus should be on the sport as a whole.
I guarantee the guys in the smaller or older boats are having just as much fun and they have a huge sense of pride because they most likely work on the boats themselves.
Probably what will happen if you de-empahsize speed and concentrate on the sport aspect,it will dis-infranchise the bigger guys. Someone needs to remind them that they too started with smaller boats.
The Chicago guys went straight for the big power Poker Runs,I dug in and said it would be fine, but what about everyone else? We need to focus on the group as a whole. Of course, that didn't happen.
A suggestion...do more social functions and let these guys get to know each other personally. The difference in boats will not be as much of a factor and the owners not quite so intimidating then....just my opinion

 

[Shanghied Again]

He's got some good points here.

Yes times are hard, but when I started Poker Runs 10 years ago, I was just starting my way back, I had a Donzi 22ZX and met Dave at the Radar shoot out, I was hooked and haven't missed a run since. I was not Intimated at all, I actually loved it and everyone was great. Now the boat club is more like a family to me and some of the best friends anyone can ask for. I feel if the smaller boat guys would just try it once, they would fall in love with it. The $199 Run is short and I am pretty sure they will use the same amount of gas during a weekend. Some of the smaller 22-28 foot boats I see every weekend running. Plus when you way in the breakfast, dinner and the great time. $199 is a small amount for a Poker Run. Dave maybe a page on the web site for guys that started with smaller boats would help.

 

[Maritime_eng]

The $199 Run is short and I am pretty sure they will use the same amount of gas during a weekend. Some of the smaller 22-28 foot boats I see every weekend running. Plus when you way in the breakfast, dinner and the great time. $199 is a small amount for a Poker Run. Dave maybe a page on the web site for guys that started with smaller boats would help.

I think this sounds like a great run. And $199 seems like a bargin compared to some of the runs out there where it can cost $600 to $800 for a crew of 4. If I was in the area I would do this run in a heart beat. I would love to see some of these types of runs come back to boating. When poker runs started this is the type of event that was held, just some boating enthusists getting together to have fun. Now it is all about who is the fastest, who spent the most money and all the rest of the BS.

 

[ar15meister]

I just did my first poker run this weekend in a 28 Pantera race boat. We had alot of fun.

I also had the opportunity to run a big Nortech and a big Cigarette and I realized that my boat is way more fun to drive in 2-4footers in my opinion.

All three boats ran about the same speed (80-85mph) but the Pantera with the two man setup was just way too much fun.

No offense to the guys with the big boats. I love them and I often wish I owned one when the wind gets blowing on the great lakes.

I also think that some of the big lakes are intimidating because of the rough water. Lake Ontario can get pretty horrible on a bad day in any sized boat and it makes it no fun. You beat up your boat and your equipment and for a guy like me at age 25 and just starting out I dont mind breaking **** but I also dont go out looking for trouble.

I think the smaller boat guys like to run with smaller boats so they feel the rush of racing and running with guys in their own speed. More small boats will = more small boats.

I know I settled one score this past weekend with a guy who had been talking about how fast his single engine boat was.......and I loved every minute of it---so did he. We were safe and running wide open on a nice day in a good 2 ft chop on a beautiful northern Ontario lake. Whats more fun than that!

 

[Geronimo36]

This is a great thread and I think everyone has valid points. Here are a couple things to consider.

Most people with boats 30ft and under are doing everything they can to afford their boat and just put gas in it every weekend. Now if they try and do a poker run the cost of this event (Travel, hotels, fuel, taking off work, ect.) makes it hard for them to afford to go out the the rest of the month. The people with the big boats can afford to go everyone of the big events.

Now on the other hand some of the smaller boats are owned by younger people (under 30yrs old), myself included, and get the cold shoulder when trying to sign up for some events.

I hear ya Maritime! I got my Panther when I was 21 yrs old in the 1990's and I was only making $14 hr as a boat mechanic. Back then, paying $150 @ $1.5+ gallon for fuel was a lot for me to spend for a weekend of boating. Add in the cost of a poker run and there was no way I could swing. I started on the the sidelines at the poker runs for the first couple years becasue I didn't have the $500 necessary to enter... As the years progressed so did my income and I began joining the runs. In some cases my buddies, who had been on the sidelines with me, split the fee and we entered together and ran in my boat......

I'm with cashbrain on the social idea of boating and boat clubs. Having fun with your friends is what this boating stuff is all about!!! At one time my local group would have something like 7-10 boats making fun-runs almost every weekend and we had some great times!!! Then everyone grew up and got better jobs and bigger boats. Some got the poker run bug and bought 100 mph boats and started going to all the poker runs... Unfortunately most of them have sold the boats or got burned out, some still exist.

One thing is for sure, we rarely go on fun-runs with 7-10 boats anymore and that's something I miss.

 

[Airpacker]

So we just gave up trying to enter the FPC poker runs and do fun runs with the Fort Myers Offshore group, Atleast here we feel like we belong and they are a heck out alot of fun........

You know Bob is one of ours right? I am sure that he used a tip or two from the years of the PBCC when he set out to create FMO.
I could fit my boat IN Bob's boat but that never stopped him from boating with me

 

[Airpacker]

Again,just my opinion, but I think their is two tiers in Offshore
The big guys and everyone else.

Maybe its a border thing but up here, you will most often find the "Big Guys" sitting on the dock after a run drinkin beer and swappin lies with the "Small Guys".
Sure, we have had an over stuffed ego or two come along BUT, they just don't last in our group.
Catastrophe is a prime example of one of our Big Guys. Alec has been there, done that in the poker run scene. He is a great player in the SPORT and really loves the boating and social aspects. Its obvious to anyone who meets him. His neighbour BoogeyBoy ( Dwight) is exactly the same. These guys can drive whatever boat the want, where ever and when ever they want but you still find them hanging out slurping a frosty with the likes of me. I'm the guy who does all his own wrenching because it is the only way I can afford to play in this sport. My boat is small ( 25ft), I only have one motor but its mine and I take pride in it. I have never heard one of the "Big Guys" here run it or me down because my deck is shorter than theirs or my wallet is skinnier than theirs. Heck, Alec even let me drive his boat when mine was down for repower.

Like I said back on my earlier post. You want to have smaller boats at the runs, you need to make the owners feel welcome, respected and just as important as the guy in the 50 foot, million dollar plus rig. You want to keep them coming back, just make sure that any "Biggus Dickus, look at my boat, I am so much more important than you" types don't get shown the same welcome and respect. Its really that simple.

Our next club run in a couple weeks will have 40 to 50 boats with everything from a 50 turbine cat to 21 foot ski boats running. Now that makes for a great BOATING event.

 

[DaveP]

One funny quote about the Biggus Dickus, look at my boat" comment.

This year, Bob Teague came to our Atlantic City Poker Run and at the end of the day he turned to one of our Directors and said..."hey there no jerks or azzholes here?"

The Director turned to him and said...."ehhhhh we weeded out all of the Jerk Offs about 5 years ago!"

LOL

 

[Maritime_eng]

You know Bob is one of ours right? I am sure that he used a tip or two from the years of the PBCC when he set out to create FMO.
I could fit my boat IN Bob's boat but that never stopped him from boating with me

Yep, Bob is a great guy and is one of the nicest and most careing individuals I have meet in boating. Looking forward to the up comming FMO season!

 

[GENERAL LEE]

The last poker run I was at, the guy parked next to me was asking how fast I was going to run. I told him we were going to run 60 mph... He seeemed dissapointed...

Later on that evening I opened up the hatch and he saw the blower engines and then told me; "I'm going to feel really bad passing you at 75 mph tomorrow".. well, he blew an engine that day...


Frank

What a LOSER.

THOSE, are the tools that need to find something else to do with their time, because they make the rest of us that like everyones' stuff look like asses. There's zero reason to say something like that. I bet he had the slowest of all of the self proclaimed "Big Dog" boats, to have felt like he needed to go pick on you guys. I'm glad he blew his pile of chit motor.

WHY do people act like that? I know for a fact that when it gets down to it, NO ONE gives a damn how much you paid for your boat, how fast it is, or how cool you think you are....NO ONE. If someone isn't approachable at all, or treats people like that regularly, you can rest assured no one even wants their money, OR their POS boat at their event, because they make others not want to attend.

A lot of the time however, the intimidation factor is self induced for many of the people with smaller boats. No matter how nice I am to some folks, they still continue to say, "well, I can't compete with you guys, so I'm not entering". I try like hell to discourage anyone from feeling that way, but sometimes it's just impossible.

The ONLY thing that gets annoying, is when some of the people that are new to the poker run scene, or SOME of the smaller boat guys, insist on asking some pretty personal questions while they are checking out your ride:

"what do you spend on gas"
"How much did you pay for it"
"What do you do for a living, aka: How much money do you make"


I think those questions are none of anyone's business, and tacky as hell to ask. That said, some of the ones that ask them, get upset and call you an ass behind your back for not answering those questions. They tell all of their other friends, and THEN comes the "we get shrugged/snobbed off by the big boat guys, so we're not going". That's not fair at all, but it happens all the time unfortunately. Just because someone doesn't want to give you their W2 and life story, doesn't in any way mean they are snobbing you off, so get over it and sign up for the damn run! :sifone: