Preacher prays for you and your debts.....

And then there is this cut and paste that I laziliy grabbed from elsewhere:

Acting on public complaints, Republican Sen. Charles Grassley of the Senate Finance Committee has launched an investigation into alleged financial wrongdoing involving six high-profile televangelists, all of whom run "non-profit" organizations...

Creflo Dollar, pastor of World Changers Church International, is among those under investigation. He has several Rolls Royces, private jets, a million-dollar home in Atlanta and a $2.5 million Manhattan apartment.

Best-selling author and televangelist Joyce Meyer also is under investigation. Her office headquarters, with its 158,000-square-foot, three-story building and furniture estimated at $5.7 million, was built for $20 million in 2001. Since 1999, Meyer's ministry has reported spending at least $4 million on five homes for Meyer and her four children.

Among the items under Senate investigation are a $23,000 "commode with marble top," a $30,000 conference table and an $11,219 French clock, all purchased for Meyer's ministry headquarters.

Meyer seems unapologetic about her accumulated wealth: "If you stay in your faith, you are going to get paid. I am living now in my reward."

Although Paul and Jan Crouch, founders of Trinity Broadcasting Network, are not under investigation by the committee, they epitomize what it means to wallow in materialism. With a combined annual salary of more than $700,000, the Crouches are among the highest paid in any of the major religious non-profit organizations. Since launching TBN in 1973, they have raised millions through telethons and appearances of popular personalities like Dollar.

TBN raises more than $120 million a year from its viewers, telling them they are "robbing God" if they are not giving to the network. Many of TBN's financial statements have not been made public, so it is difficult to ascertain exactly how the donations are being spent.

However, the Los Angeles Times reported that TBN owns 30 homes across the country, including a couple of mansions in Newport Beach and a Texas ranch home, which they make available to the Crouches.

As Crouch sums up his philosophy: "If my heart really, honestly desires a nice Cadillac ... would there be something terribly wrong with me saying, 'Lord, it is the desire of my heart to have a nice car ... and I'll use it for Your glory'? I think I could do that and in time, as I walked in obedience with God, I believe I'd have it."
 
Creflo Dollar, pastor of World Changers Church International, is among those under investigation. He has several Rolls Royces, private jets, a million-dollar home in Atlanta and a $2.5 million Manhattan apartment.


Meyer seems unapologetic about her accumulated wealth: "If you stay in your faith, you are going to get paid. I am living now in my reward."

Although Paul and Jan Crouch, founders of Trinity Broadcasting Network, are not under investigation by the committee, they epitomize what it means to wallow in materialism. With a combined annual salary of more than $700,000

TBN raises more than $120 million a year from its viewers, telling them they are "robbing God" if they are not giving to the network.

As Crouch sums up his philosophy: "If my heart really, honestly desires a nice Cadillac ... would there be something terribly wrong with me saying, 'Lord, it is the desire of my heart to have a nice car ... and I'll use it for Your glory'? I think I could do that and in time, as I walked in obedience with God, I believe I'd have it."

Classic post/paste! Meanwhile some poor slob just sent his last buck to these people so they can feel better about helping "the lord" and maybe that good spirit, karma, prayer will come back to them and get them a job, better health, a winning lottery ticket, a new truck or whatever else they are missing in their pathetic trailer park existence.....
 
pathetic trailer park existence.....
your out of line with that posture... my(our) first owned home was in a damn nice trailer park, that's all we could afford, a 65' single wide.. I bought it with what I earned with bloodied fingers, I paid the lot rent too... yada yada... I sold it to a hard working USCG family stationed here... they were blown to smithereen's in it in Hurr. Andrew... why? they didn't have anywhere else to go... don't insult working class people who have FAITH.. I don't know you, you don't know me, but I can guarandamntee you I can buy your ass sideways if I wanted to now... with money I earned...
 
Is this the guy that got caught up in some controversy a few years back where his wife was accused of acting like a tool on a plane flight??
Cant remember how all that ended.

Saw him interviewed by Larry King once. Has a massive following.
Very charismatic for sure.

Yes it was. Others on the plane said it was blown out of proportion. Joel never waivered in support of his wife.
 
Classic post/paste! Meanwhile some poor slob just sent his last buck to these people so they can feel better about helping "the lord" and maybe that good spirit, karma, prayer will come back to them and get them a job, better health, a winning lottery ticket, a new truck or whatever else they are missing in their pathetic trailer park existence.....

I can't defend people who think that they can buy happiness from a televangelist who then is a selfish steward of that resource.

I can defend people who are generous of heart, and I can assure you that the people who have a generous spirit lead much richer lives than those who don't. And that good karma, spirit, whatever does indirectly get them a job, better health, a new truck, or whatever is missing in their satisfying yet ever-improving existence.
 
I can defend people who are generous of heart, and I can assure you that the people who have a generous spirit lead much richer lives than those who don't. And that good karma, spirit, whatever does indirectly get them a job, better health, a new truck, or whatever is missing in their satisfying yet ever-improving existence.
a big 10-4 on that.. :cheers2:
 
I can't defend people who think that they can buy happiness from a televangelist who then is a selfish steward of that resource.

I can defend people who are generous of heart, and I can assure you that the people who have a generous spirit lead much richer lives than those who don't. And that good karma, spirit, whatever does indirectly get them a job, better health, a new truck, or whatever is missing in their satisfying yet ever-improving existence.

a big 10-4 on that.. :cheers2:

:iagree::iagree::iagree:
 
your out of line with that posture... my(our) first owned home was in a damn nice trailer park, that's all we could afford, a 65' single wide.. I bought it with what I earned with bloodied fingers, I paid the lot rent too... yada yada... I sold it to a hard working USCG family stationed here... they were blown to smithereen's in it in Hurr. Andrew... why? they didn't have anywhere else to go... don't insult working class people who have FAITH.. I don't know you, you don't know me, but I can guarandamntee you I can buy your ass sideways if I wanted to now... with money I earned...

That was stereotyping at its best.......glad it worked out for you but for many others like the people you sold it to, it did not hence the stereotype.

People can have any type of faith they want, this is America but when CNN is headlining you as "Can God wipe out your debt" that is wrong and this preacher is riding the wave of that tag line with a lot of people struggling to make ends meet, turning to this type of solution hoping for the best.

Buizlla your HARDWORK is what paid off in your life, THAT IS THE MESSAGE THAT THE USA NEEDS, not pray away your debt or send your money to this guy.
 
Joel's message resonates with me, I appreciate his insight and I've never given his church a nickel. If you disagree with financially supporting his organization, then "DON'T DONATE".
 
when CNN is headlining you as "Can God wipe out your debt" that is wrong and this preacher is riding the wave of that tag line with a lot of people struggling to make ends meet, turning to this type of solution hoping for the best.
Those of us in the non-televangelist side of fund-raising, even religious fund-raising view that as taking advantage and it is in poor form to say the least.
 
but when CNN is headlining you as "Can God wipe out your debt" that is wrong and this preacher is riding the wave of that tag line with a lot of people struggling to make ends meet, turning to this type of solution hoping for the best.
just because CNN makes up a tag line, doesn't mean Joel said that, implied that, or otherwise... in fact, I haven't heard him yet make that statement (if he did) and i've NEVER heard him ask, or demand funds, to make anything better.. or has he? you didn't see Billy Graham with 20 homes either... I believe Joel's message was that you CAN wipe away debt if YOU put YOUR mind to it,,, he NEVER said come to my stadium, and all your debts will disappear...
 
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Those of us in the non-televangelist side of fund-raising, even religious fund-raising view that as taking advantage and it is in poor form to say the least.

That was my point......message may be great, inspirational but to me it is predatory. I'm glad his message has helped some here on the board....
 
I just got back from church today. I thought about skipping it today, but I'm so glad I went. It was the Christmas service. There was a lot of singing of old hymms I remember as a kid. I was truly moved. You could feel the presence of God in the house. Most of you know i'm no choir boy, and I can get riled, and profane with the best (or worse) of them. I don't preach to people, I figured that my religion is between my God and me. That's why I took a 38 year hiatus from going. I'm happy to be going again. It the fellowship of being around people that think alike that I enjoy. My mom said I used to go to church just for the singing. :)
 
It doesn't seem like the people who relate with Joel Osteen's message feel pressured to give.
good point, and right on... example> a few years back, 2004 to be exact, I heard a speech of his one day about giving back, don't give to him or any church, if only to make yourself feel good... I had had a serious TIA stroke that spring, and was lucky I had my senses and brain back, I also had a pretty good money year... so come Thanksgiving I paid for 600 meals at the local Salvation Army kitchen, anonymously, 600 plates of food made me feel I had done something for myself, not them... I rode my Harley down to the corner at 11st off Biscayne Blvd that morning and saw a 2 block line for food, the local politician POS was in the serving line and took all the credit... nobody knew that until today, not even my wife... it wasn't necessary... I did it for me, because it taught me that I could make 600 people happy that day, that were less fortunate than me... a VERY good friend of mines dad, Cuda knows him(Bud), bought 2 tractor trailer loads of new bicycles, assembled them ALL, and on Christmas Eve/Day announced it on a radio in Clearwater/StPete where they could be picked up for FREE, and he left the scene... 1,000 kids that day got free bikes, and to this day not a one of those 1,000 kids knows who he is... that's the message of Joel's giving, because you BELIEVE.
 
That was stereotyping at its best.......glad it worked out for you but for many others like the people you sold it to, it did not hence the stereotype.

People can have any type of faith they want, this is America but when CNN is headlining you as "Can God wipe out your debt" that is wrong and this preacher is riding the wave of that tag line with a lot of people struggling to make ends meet, turning to this type of solution hoping for the best.

Buizlla your HARDWORK is what paid off in your life, THAT IS THE MESSAGE THAT THE USA NEEDS, not pray away your debt or send your money to this guy.

Your problem is believing in CNN instead of God.
 
Joel's message resonates with me, I appreciate his insight and I've never given his church a nickel. If you disagree with financially supporting his organization, then "DON'T DONATE".

Joel doesn't ask for a penny. We all must realize there's rent and electic due for his ministry too. I gave extra at my church today because it's the last service before Christmas. I believe in the betterment of mankind. If someone wants to rip me off, so be it. I won't change who I am, or what I belive in just because one person wants to take advantage of my giving nature. Just as a side note, it's never happened yet.
 
just because CNN makes up a tag line, doesn't mean Joel said that, implied that, or otherwise... in fact, I haven't heard him yet make that statement (if he did) and i've NEVER heard him ask, or demand funds, to make anything better.. or has he? you didn't see Billy Graham with 20 homes either... I believe Joel's message was that you CAN wipe away debt if YOU put YOUR mind to it,,, he NEVER said come to my stadium, and all your debts with disappear...

Amen.
 
good point, and right on... example> a few years back, 2004 to be exact, I heard a speech of his one day about giving back, don't give to him or any church, if only to make yourself feel good... I had had a serious TIA stroke that spring, and was lucky I had my senses and brain back, I also had a pretty good money year... so come Thanksgiving I paid for 600 meals at the local Salvation Army kitchen, anonymously, 600 plates of food made me feel I had done something for myself, not them... I rode my Harley down to the corner at 11st off Biscayne Blvd that morning and saw a 2 block line for food, the local politician POS was in the serving line and took all the credit... nobody knew that until today, not even my wife... it wasn't necessary... I did it for me, because it taught me that I could make 600 people happy that day, that were less fortunate than me... a VERY good friend of mines dad, Cuda knows him(Bud), bought 2 tractor trailer loads of new bicycles, assembled them ALL, and on Christmas Eve/Day announced it on a radio in Clearwater/StPete where they could be picked up for FREE, and he left the scene... 1,000 kids that day got free bikes, and to this day not a one of those 1,000 kids knows who he is... that's the message of Joel's giving, because you BELIEVE.

Your other buddy the Mad Dog also has a giving nature. He is always there to lend a hand during a hurricane. I think surviving Andrew made him see that he's lucky to have a properous business, and want to share his prosperity like you do Jim. A lot of you have never met Jim. He's a no BS guy, that I would have never known these things about him. He doesn't sugarcoat things, and has ruffled more than one feather on these boating sites. Disagree with him at your own peril. I don't.
 
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