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oil cooler reccomendations?
- Thread starter fixxxer22
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YoungPerformance
SO Tech Expert
I agree. Everything looks good so far. Those lifters look like Morels. I know they are put out by Lunati, but they sure look like Morels. Morels builds a ton of lifters for others, so that is probably what they are.
Eddie
RMBuilder
SO Tech Expert
Fixxxer,
The lifters are the Lunati “street roller” lifters manufactured by Morel. The primary use for these is as an OEM replacement. It is hard to assess from these photos, however the scuffing in the skirt area would tend to suggest improper lifter/bore clearance. We do not recommend these lifters in marine applications, particularly with elevated spring force/rates. It also appears you have some possible tracking issues with the lobes; again the photo makes any analysis difficult. If the tracking marks are deep enough to catch a pointed object you may be through the heat treat. Can you list the spring package you are currently using?
Again, from the photos it is hard to assess, however the intake ports appear to have a coating of soot, which would be an indicator of (intake) reversion due to valvetrain instability.
Bob
The lifters are the Lunati “street roller” lifters manufactured by Morel. The primary use for these is as an OEM replacement. It is hard to assess from these photos, however the scuffing in the skirt area would tend to suggest improper lifter/bore clearance. We do not recommend these lifters in marine applications, particularly with elevated spring force/rates. It also appears you have some possible tracking issues with the lobes; again the photo makes any analysis difficult. If the tracking marks are deep enough to catch a pointed object you may be through the heat treat. Can you list the spring package you are currently using?
Again, from the photos it is hard to assess, however the intake ports appear to have a coating of soot, which would be an indicator of (intake) reversion due to valvetrain instability.
Bob
YoungPerformance
SO Tech Expert
I went back and looked at the pics (made them larger, didn't do that the first time) and I see the scuffing on the lifters. You definitely do need to check the clearance between the lifters and their bores. What may also have happened is that the metal shavings in the oil went through the engine oil and caused the scuffing. Once you verify the lifter clearance, we will have a better idea of what caused the scuffing.
Eddie
Eddie
If there was residual metal from his last cam failure in the hoses or oil cooler they would be after the filter and sent back into the engine. Since you found metal with a magnet that signals flat tappet cam material before bearing material IMHO. Bearing material is usually more flakey than ground. I'm going by the findings in an Oberg oil pre filter, for example (Found mostely on drag cars and dry sump systems). Maybe the scuffing of the lifters is from old camshaft metal, the lobe sctraches are likely trash related as well. Did you remove all the oil galley plugs and rod them out last time? Specifically the two long passages along the lifter bores.
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fixxxer22
SO Tech Expert: Ford PSD's
Yes, my machine shop pulled all plugs and boiled the block. I tried my best to get the lines and cooler flushed with a solvent tank. now it looks like i am paying for it. the cam does look a little rough. i might need to get a package together from rm builder. the springs were installed by my speed shop. he sent me my old ones in a lunati box that the part number no longer existed and was to a flat tapped cam setup. so, i called back and he said he just had that box laying around and he threw my old springs and assured me that they were some brand and were 145 installed (i think). the cam was used out of a 525efi. i am now paying for being cheap. I will have the engine out tonight.
fixxxer22
SO Tech Expert: Ford PSD's
well the rod bearings look ok to good. not the best but not as bad as the mains. there are a couple of heavy grooves that make me upset. there is no bearing material in the pan and that is what the plug looked like every time i changed the oil from about mid season. to now. exactly the same metal content.
Attachments
fixxxer22
SO Tech Expert: Ford PSD's
The bores looked really good. the crosshatch was in good shape. i plasti-gauged a main and it was at 3 thou. called the speed shp and he said he would have to look up ring gap and bore clearance but it was not bored and those are my factory JE pistons. i think i am going to pull the crank and leave the heads on so i do not have to buy head gaskets again. But now i worry about my awesome blueprinted melling oil pump. will it survive?
Before you remove the crankshaft check the end play of the crankshaft, look for .005 to .008 play front to back. If you had trashy oil it will show in the main bearings with the rear main likely to be the worst, #1 or front main will likely be less scratched. On the rear main check the thrust side of the bearings. I would take the end plate off the oil pump and look for scratches. The surfaces in the pump should all be polished not scratched. Was the crank turned during the last rebuild? Check the chamfer on oil the oil holes in the crankshaft, make sure there are no rough edges to peel bearing material. I would pull the oil galley plugs in the rear and front of the two long passages along the lifter bore. If you have alot of metal deposits on any of the plugs, maybe the block didn't get cleaned properly. I would recommend replacing the cam bearings also, once out, you can clean the passage with brakekleen. Check the oil pump driveshaft for signs of rubbing, and the distributer gear for polished areas, signs of rubbing. If you cant determine that this engine is making metal debris, it might have been leftover.
Plug oil bypass
Use a 20mm freeze type plug driven into side hole and staked (with small punch) in four places. See picture here.......
http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/...pressure-problems-stock-hardware-dscf0498.jpg
Use a 20mm freeze type plug driven into side hole and staked (with small punch) in four places. See picture here.......
http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/...pressure-problems-stock-hardware-dscf0498.jpg
jeffswav
New member
I hope you are ready to go fast
The springs change and height adjustment will be easier to do with the heads removed. Be sure if you use the cam button setup to get the camshaft endplay set correctly, do not use the stamped steel cover. Also be sure to check the pushrod length, do the sharpie test. Bob will point you in the right direction.I tried to install a 20mm plug in my block tonight and was 100% not comfortable on how loose it was. Staked or not, I didn't like it and went with the 30lb relief valve instead.
fixxxer22
SO Tech Expert: Ford PSD's
Thanks for the help but mine is going back to the machine shop to be cleaned so i can ensure that everything goes well. So, i think i am gonna go with what Eddie does and tap the hole since i have the oppertunity to clean out any shavings made by tapping the hole. thanks for the help :cheers2:
Trim'd Up
New member
I used a 13/16" freeze plug and it fits really tight. I had to drive it in like they are intended. I tried the 20mm too and agree it was too loose.
MERPerformance
Sponsor
Fixxxer22
As said, by Eddie and Bob, always check the lifter bore clearance not only for clearance, but also for being out of round. The Morel, lifter is what I use on every build. The problem with any lifter is the clearance and any side loading of the lifter, caused by the bore not being true to the cam lobe. This can be corrected by indexing the lifter bores installing bronze sleves. Morels require a max clearance of .0015 and a min of .001. I use a BHJ lifter true set-up in my milling machine. the bores are drilled and reamed to about 1.000" then we install bronze bushings, drill the oil galley holes through the bushings, then ream the bushings, the block is then put into a honing tank and the bushings are finish honed to size.
Your lifter to bore clearance should be .0015 for a marine application. I have found that for example: New Dart block clearance is .001-.0012", on a World block .002-.0022", GM Gen5,6,.002" anything that has alot of time on it
.0025-.0028". One of the problems with a World block is the lifter bores are short, plus they have a under-cut- radius at the top of the bores. Any of the older Gen IV blocks do not have the taller lifter bores and are most likely worn and out of round. I have in the past extended the bronze bushing out of the bore on the top to give more surface area to the lifter.
Have you machine shop, check every one of those bores for clearance with a bore gauge against the Morel lifter O.D. size. If they say only 1 or 2 are worn, you are better in the long run doing all 16. The cost should be 450-500$.
As said, by Eddie and Bob, always check the lifter bore clearance not only for clearance, but also for being out of round. The Morel, lifter is what I use on every build. The problem with any lifter is the clearance and any side loading of the lifter, caused by the bore not being true to the cam lobe. This can be corrected by indexing the lifter bores installing bronze sleves. Morels require a max clearance of .0015 and a min of .001. I use a BHJ lifter true set-up in my milling machine. the bores are drilled and reamed to about 1.000" then we install bronze bushings, drill the oil galley holes through the bushings, then ream the bushings, the block is then put into a honing tank and the bushings are finish honed to size.
Your lifter to bore clearance should be .0015 for a marine application. I have found that for example: New Dart block clearance is .001-.0012", on a World block .002-.0022", GM Gen5,6,.002" anything that has alot of time on it
.0025-.0028". One of the problems with a World block is the lifter bores are short, plus they have a under-cut- radius at the top of the bores. Any of the older Gen IV blocks do not have the taller lifter bores and are most likely worn and out of round. I have in the past extended the bronze bushing out of the bore on the top to give more surface area to the lifter.
Have you machine shop, check every one of those bores for clearance with a bore gauge against the Morel lifter O.D. size. If they say only 1 or 2 are worn, you are better in the long run doing all 16. The cost should be 450-500$.
fixxxer22
SO Tech Expert: Ford PSD's
Now, I have a handle on getting more money for this fix. would it be wiser for me to install a crossover kit and remove the circulating pump. remove the thermostat and purchace a thermostat controlled oil cooler? Also, talking to Eddie (who has been awesome help) i am going to install an oil tem gauge.
My only issue is I run the V-belt sytle system and 3 of the belts use the circulating pump. I am not in the market for a serpintine system. What do i do with the belts. Do i just go direct to the power steering and alternator with shorter belts?
And is buying a used crossover kosher or is there a good system out there? I do not need anything flashy. My engine is balck and blue and i do not care how it looks. it looks like a big bruise and i am ok with that. so is there any crossover kits that are painted instead of chrome?
My only issue is I run the V-belt sytle system and 3 of the belts use the circulating pump. I am not in the market for a serpintine system. What do i do with the belts. Do i just go direct to the power steering and alternator with shorter belts?
And is buying a used crossover kosher or is there a good system out there? I do not need anything flashy. My engine is balck and blue and i do not care how it looks. it looks like a big bruise and i am ok with that. so is there any crossover kits that are painted instead of chrome?
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