Mona Lou and others Bertrams 31'

[Black Tornado]

Original hull or former boat?

#S-3 - Mongoose - B.Cook - ? 1? x ? - stern drives? - 1974-75

Was it this a new boat for Betty Cook?
Very probable that instead it was sold together with the homonym cat Zippè and then modified with a cockpit advanced toward the bow.

pic1 1974?-75?

pic2 today

 

[Black Tornado]

I hope that someone can add precisations,corrections and new updates.

 

[FLYING FISH]

Bertram comments

A marathon darkroom session Marco.Began in 2009 and almost ended in 2010.

McQueens Jeans raced in 1978 &1979 by Roger Kelly.Not sure about sterndrives.Need to check.

Quicksilvera also raced in1971 by D.Silvera

Zippie also raced in 1966 [R.Bertram] & 1970 [M.Fortney]

Mona Lou III [red] only raced once in 1968 Hurricane Classic (see post 49)

Mona Lou IV [yellow/white] raced in 1969 Bah 500 [M.Riggs] & Gateway [O.Lewis].It could well have been the No 90 boat in 1967 but can`t prove it.

Yet to sort Fino out.

Red & White Tornado`s still not 100% certain.

Miss WD 40 had 2 x Mercruisers - total 900hp

 

[FLYING FISH]

McQueens Jeans drives

No pics out of water,but cannot see outdrives in the racing pics.

 

[Bobcat]

thank you for posting those pics Marco!

 

[Black Tornado]

A marathon darkroom session Marco.Began in 2009 and almost ended in 2010.

McQueens Jeans raced in 1978 &1979 by Roger Kelly.Not sure about sterndrives.Need to check.

Quicksilvera also raced in1971 by D.Silvera

Zippie also raced in 1966 [R.Bertram] & 1970 [M.Fortney]

Mona Lou III [red] only raced once in 1968 Hurricane Classic (see post 49)

Mona Lou IV [yellow/white] raced in 1969 Bah 500 [M.Riggs] & Gateway [O.Lewis].It could well have been the No 90 boat in 1967 but can`t prove it.

Yet to sort Fino out.

Red & White Tornado`s still not 100% certain.

Miss WD 40 had 2 x Mercruisers - total 900hp

In this dual discussion that I think it will break down in 2010 I would have wanted to bring me the bottle in the darkened room but instead I will be forced to celebrating like alls the people they are preparing to do from several days.

In the only photo(very good) of the McQueens Jeans it seems me to perceive the sterns drives. The stern surface in fact it is not so 'cleaning up' as those with the drives shaft.
However there are not still certains.

About the only 31' with the outboards still I don't understand why it is called Quicksilvera if the letter A never compare in the pics.
However I provide to add the year 1971.

Zippè(not Zippie) of the 1966 according to your race-list and Searace was a 25'. After all the first 31' - those designed by Specht appeared in the 1967.
Considering that the boat was driven from Bertram himself is it possible that he was not a 25' but the prototype of 31'?
About the Zippè in 1970 only you have a report for the Hennessy Cup of August 15(but as Bertram 25') considering that Searace for a Zippè boat jump from the 1967(still a Bertram 25') to the 1971(the new cat of Ron Jones).

About the red 31' Mona Lou you always consider it as the III,but this one is for the Maritime 32' with the MerCruiser, being the II the Maritime 32' with the turbines and the I the Bertram 25' of the 1963.
Then I think that for the Mona Lou 31' red it should be spoken of IV or V (if it also existed a 31' Mona Lou in yellow-white).

As you see different open cases they still stay and of difficulty solution without further images.

Now I go in the darkened room to analize the sterns of the 31' trying to solve the Red and White Tornados dilemma.

 

[Black Tornado]

thank you for posting those pics Marco!

For some pics we must thank the precious archive of Graham (FLYING FISH) on Boatmad and for some other graces to Nigel and HORBA.

 

[FLYING FISH]

Bertram outstanding queries

Continuing the Anglo - Italian dialogue.

I would have thought the tops of the outdrives would be visible on McQueens Jeans if it had any.

My Zippe references for 66 & 71 are a mixture of race reports and searace info.It seems odd that in 67 Fortney had a 25ft Bertram then uses a 31ft Bertam later on,as seen in the Suncoast film.Poor old Crousy does mix things up occasionally,like on P101 he refers to Boss O Nova as the former Mona Lou III,yet in the 68 Hurricane report refers to it as Mon Lou IV,which he also calls the yellow/white Bertram of 69 Bah 500 as Mona Lou IV.As far as I can see the Mon Lou boats did not have the model number written on,rather like the cigarette Eraf boats,which only Marco has managed to work out which was which.Maybe we have to make our own minds up as to what number we give them.

Going back to Zippe,I reckon that when it raced in 71 it was the cat,and not the 31ft Bertram after all.

So,the call goes out again,where are the U.S. devotees to clear all these outstanding questions.

 

[Brownie]

Zenor Zippe was a Ron Jones (hydroplane builder) catamaran. A very brave construction and design. Like all the airplanes before the Wright brothers, the horsepower wasn't available (under the rules) to fly it. I drove it back then. It went 58 MPH into the wind. It was an aluminum/nomex honeycomb job. The boat was owned, I think, by Maurey Fortney, who owned food franchises. He sold the boat to Paul Cook (Betty's hubby), who invented shrink-tube. He didn't have much luck with it either.

 

[Black Tornado]

I must say that unfortunately we must make use of our bible Searace with a lot of parsimony and attention. It remains the our point of reference and it stays the base on which then to formulate our hypotheses if we always hold present to avoid to fall in his innumerable booby-traps.
Concern to the Mona Lous I must contradict you on the fact that they did not have the model number written on the boat. You perhaps report to the Bertrams only, because the two Maritime bring well the serialis II and III.
We are able therefore accordingly to submit the IV and V to the remainders two Mono Lou Bertrams and considering that that red not raced (probably) in 1967 and that yellow instead yes I believe obvious to submit the IV to the yellow and the V to the red one for our convenience going beyond what is written on Searace.
Even if we must still remove every doubt on the existence of the Bertrams 31' Mona Lou. Were they two?
Richie Powers answered years ago on one my specific thread on the Bertrams of the Team Mercury of Kiekhaefer (as you see the problem has become a historical dilemma).
The our 7xchamp remembered that they existed well 4 Bertramss 31' in the Mercury Team period 1967-68 before Kiekhaefer disbanded the team.
One in yellow for Sirois (Sternwinder), a yellow with three engines for Bakos (Ronda Lee II) a red for Lewis and finally a third yellow for Stenback (but Stenback had a white Magnum 28-Quicksilver IIs. Richie perhaps confused it with the yellow Bertram 28' Speedmaster of Steve Sirois of the 1968.Hey Seeroy where are you?)
I don't believe that Odell Lewis had three or four boats in that 1967.
There is a Bertram 31' of too much.
Richie affirmed that the Ronda Lee II was driven by Sirois that year.
The yellow Sternwinder stays of Sirois.Ok.
The yellow Ronda Lee goes to Lewis e/o to Sirois and perhaps is that Mono Lou in yellow with the #90 of Sirois that appears in Run Sunward in a race of the 1967.
Perhaps that is the same boat that then it reappears in 1969 to the Bahamas 500 with Mel Riggs?
I believe both a very reasonable hypothesis.
Brownie was offered of intermediare of our questions to the unattainable Odell Lewis that it is the only one that can definitely close the case.
I have asked him these questions. I hope has not been replaced for some the preferable jugs of beer.

 

[Black Tornado]

Zenor Zippe was a Ron Jones (hydroplane builder) catamaran. A very brave construction and design. Like all the airplanes before the Wright brothers, the horsepower wasn't available (under the rules) to fly it. I drove it back then. It went 58 MPH into the wind. It was an aluminum/nomex honeycomb job. The boat was owned, I think, by Maurey Fortney, who owned food franchises. He sold the boat to Paul Cook (Betty's hubby), who invented shrink-tube. He didn't have much luck with it either.

However that cat stays an interesting project.
Ron Jones built in that same year another interesting cat for the Italian Commander Petroni. It called Navalcat and it had the cockpit, the engine bay and the sterns drives all in the center, in the wing.
But all this would deserve another interesting thread....

 

[Black Tornado]

Some Question for Brownie

Brownie do you remember the sterns of the 31' Bertrams?
Were they modified (cutted toward the inside) for lodging the sterns drives Speedmaster #3?
Could the Speedmasters #2 be lodged directly on the transom of the firsts 31' Bertrams that they used the drives shaft?

 

[FLYING FISH]

Mona Lou Nos

I know the model No`s appeared on the Maritimes,but the point I was making Marco was that I could not see them on the Bertrams.Sure we can renumber the Bertrams ourselves,but the moment I modify my records,new information comes to light that changes these numbers yet again.It would be good for somebody in the U.S. to say exactly what Mona Lou Numbered Bertrams raced in which years and what races, then that would clear the fog.

 

[Brownie]

Post 112 shows the two possibilities. The fog is not so easy to lift. I don't recall Odell driving any 31 Bertrams except the red one, one time. I notice that you think that he drove one in the 1969 Bahamas 500, but I do not think so. I remember most of his boats, from the Muddigger 20 foot Alim V-20 to the Maritime turbine. As far as the Bertram 31s are concerned, don't forget Dick Bertram and Peter Rittmaster with their inboard, shaft drive boats.

 

[FLYING FISH]

1969 Bah 500

Brownie,look at post 103,where I mention Mel Riggs drove 1969 Bah 500 as Odell was incapacitated,whereas Odell drove in 1969 Gateway,unless Crousy has mixed up.

Do you remember a 25ft Bertram racing in 66/67 as Zippe or was this actually a 31ft Bertram.

Can you throw any light on that Bertram No 90 Yellow/White (Mona Lou) racing in 1967,which you would think was Sternwinder but isn`t.

 

[Brownie]

The names changed on all those boats, depending on the driver. Married drivers, Odell (Mona Lou), and John Bakos (Rhonda Lee) named their boats after their wives. Single drivers, Sirois (Sternwinder) Gene Wagner (Milkshake), etc.
Considering that the legal engines of the early sixties were only about 400 HP, if you wanted to go fast, you had to go light. If you wanted to go light, and stay together in rough water, you had to go small. The 25' Bertram was a potent racer, winning Miami Nassau twice, 62 and 63, and Around Long Island, New Buffalo (Michigan) to Chicago and back, etc. The California guys didn't keep up with developments in Miami. The raced our used stuff for a while.

 

[Black Tornado]

31' Bertram Transoms

Brownie,backing to the 31' Bertrams sterns,in your post #49 and #55 you say that the first Speedmaster #3 were on the red Mona Lou of 1968 and that the Sternwinder of Sirois and the Ronda Lee II of Bakos both of 1967 they had the 'old' Speedmaster #2.
Then the 31' Bertrams original transoms was changed for better lodging the new Speedmasters #3 I suppose. In fact that red Mona Lou and then all the others 31' built beginning from 1968 they had that new transoms.

 

[Black Tornado]

Also the exhausts pipes go out from the transom in two principal different ways.
In fact in the firsts 31' they go out a little above of the water-line, while in the 31' with the modified transoms the pipes go out very more aloft also preventing from being able to write the name of the boat.

 

[Brownie]

The original dry exhausts were made by Kiekhaefer. They were simply dry pipes on cast iron manifolds. The later ones were Pattersons, and true headers, first used by the Cigarette "Blonde II". The flat area of the transom was larger for the #3 drive.

 

[Black Tornado]

Ok,then we can establish two types of original 31' Bertram(a third version include the only outboards version-Quicksilver);
1-those with the first type of transom - year 1967 - that include both those with the drives shafts (My Moppie-Master Moppie) that those with the sterns drives Speedmaster #II (Sternwinder-Ronda Lee II-Patty Lou-Zippè) and with the exhausts pipes low(except the Ronda Lee II).
2-those with the new transom(from a new mold) - year 1968-70 - with the Speedmasters #III (red Mona Lou-Red & White Tornado-American Moppie-Mona Lou 1969-Maelstrom) and with the exhausts pipes more high.
All this should help a lot us to identify between them.
They now miss some photos....