Mona Lou and others Bertrams 31'

[Black Tornado]

Sammy said he remembers you. He said that the 32' transom had to be "cut" in order to lodge Mercruiser as opposed to V drive. When he "cut" the transom, the boat actually measured 31', but they continued to call it 32'.

That 32' they were in fiberglass. Do you think that it was possible to cut the transom and 'glue' a new so big piece without weakening the whole same transom?
Or was modified the mould and therefore that first 32' with the V-drives they remained so and did they do the new 31'?
This I wanted to understand.:huh:

 

[seeroy]

That 32' they were in fiberglass. Do you think that it was possible to cut the transom and 'glue' a new so big piece without weakening the whole same transom?
Or was modified the mould and therefore that first 32' with the V-drives they remained so and did they do the new 31'?
This I wanted to understand.:huh:

Don't know. Sammy is going to send some Bertram history documents to me via US Mail. When I get it I will call him again and ask how they did it. I'm tired and going to bed early. What the heck are you doing up so late. Must be quite late over there..........ZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

 

[boatnuts]

I realize by comparison to the Bertrams being talked about in this thread that the Bertram 24 is just a tadpole but does anyone on here have any knowledge of the origins of Bertram 24 hull. It is very different from both the 20 & 25 models. The hull is V'd to the heel and the strakes are different. The rear 3/4 of the bottom has a striking resemblance to 2 boats I have previously owned (24 ft. Cigarette & 25 ft. Magnum). I'd post pics of the bottom taken when it was upside down last month but I have no URL to link.

 

[Black Tornado]

Trying to use a cardiac defibrillator to save this thread here the images that my friend Fabrizio has sent me of the 31' Bertram "Rio" .
With this boat the Panamianian Josè Arango won the President's Cup race in the 1981.
At the first sight I was certain to find me in front of the 1967 Fortney ex Zippè but then looking at her transom my certainties have staggered.
Zippè was a Bertram-32' - that I would define of 'first generation', while the "Rio" has the modified transom.
Then new boat also this? Or is it the ex Mona Lou of 1969?

 

[Black Tornado]

About the Mona Lou for Riggs in the Bahamas 500 of 1969, few days ago I have received from US a series of pages of contemporary Motor Boating magazine purchased on eBay. In the specific one in the pages about the Bahamas 500 is written that that Mona Lou was a new boat.

 

[Black Tornado]

About the Quicksilver 31' Bertram with outboards is confirmed what said Sammy James. The boat was for Stenback in 1969.
In fact in the photo below(probably the start of the Bahamas 500 1969) in the background at right is seen the outline of the My Moppie of Bertram that raced for the last time that year.

 

[Black Tornado]

Again from a photo found online by my friend Fabrizio the Patty Lou of Rautbord that clearly shows the V-drive system of the firsts 32'Bertram.

 

[Black Tornado]

Hey Brownie can you tell something of Russ Specht and who designs the Bertrams in that years?

 

[Black Tornado]

reproposing the list part two

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

race # - boat name - driver - engines -race year - notes

-8/77 - My Moppie - R. Bertram -Mercruiser 2x450 -1967-68-69 - drives shaft

-15/52 -Master Moppie -P.Rittmaster -H&M Ford 2x550 - 1967-68 - drives shaft

-80 -Ronda Lee II -J.Bakos/O.Lewis-Mercruiser 3x225 - 1967-68 -stern driv. SM#2

-90 -Sternwinder -W.Sirois -Mercruiser 2x450 -1967-68 -stern drives SM#2

-43 -Zippè -M.Fortney -H&M Ford 2x500 -1967-? -drives shaft?

-18 - Patty Lou -R.Rautbord - ? -1967-? -drives shaft

-90 -Mona Lou -O.Lewis? -Mercruiser 2x450? -1967-? -stern drives SM#2 -ex Sternwinder?

-70 -Mona Lou -O.Lewis -Mercruiser 2x450 -1968 -stern drives SM#3 - red version

-90/4 -Yellow Tornado -V.Balestrieri/D.Pruett -Mercruiser 2x450 -1968 -stern drives ex Sternwinder

-23 -Boss O'Nova -W.Wishnick -Mercruiser 2x475 -1969-70-71 -stern drives ex Mona Lou red

-53 -American Moppie-P.Rittmaster-Mercruiser 2x475 -1969 -stern drives

-70 -Mona Lou -M.Riggs -Mercruiser 2x475 -1969 -stern drives

-4/89 -Red Tornado -V.Balestrieri/F.Cosentino-Mercruiser 2x475-1969-70 -stern drives SM#3

-89 -White Tornado -F.Cosentino -Mercruiser 2x475 -1969 -stern drives SM#3

-18 -Fino -R.Rautbord -Mercruiser 2x475 -1969?-70-71? -stern drives ex 1969 Mona Lou?

-69 -Mister Charly -R.Bonelli -Mercruiser 2x475 -1970 -stern drives ex American Moppie

-303 -Quicksilver -J.Stenback/D.Silvera -Mercury 4x140 -1969-70-71 -outboards

-8 -Maelstrom -E.Lecarreaux -Mercruiser 2x475 -1970 -stern drives

-123 -American Moppie-T.Powell -Mercruiser 2x500 -1971 -drives shaft? ex Master Moppie

-123 -Canadian Moppie-T.Powell -Mercruiser 2x500 -1972 -drives s.? ex 1971 American Moppie

-5 -WD40 -O.Trost -Mercruiser 2x450 -1972 -stern drives ex Boss O'Nova

-65 -Moppie -F.Barker -Mercruiser 2x500 -1973 -drives shaft? ex Canadian Moppie

-S-3 -Mongoose -B.Cook -Mercruiser 2x500 -1974-75 -stern drives? ex Zippè?

-009 -McQeen Jeans -R.Kelly -Ford Sabre 2x300 -1978-79 -ex Moppie

-555 -Rio - J.Arango - Mercruiser 2x ? - 1981 - stern drives-ex?


-12 are the hulls built surely(My Moppie-Master Moppie-Ronda Lee II-Sternwinder-Zippè-Patty Lou-red Mona Lou-American Moppie-1969 yellow Mona Lou-Red or White Tornado-Quicksilver-Maelstrom)

-6 boats of uncertain origins(1967 yellow Mona Lou-Red or White Tornado-Fino-Mongoose-Rio)

-21 race victories(7 Boss O'Nova-4 Red Tornado-2 Sternwinder+1 Yellow Tornado-1 Zippè-1 Mona Lou red-1 American Moppie 1969-1 White Tornado-1 Quicksilver-1 Mongoose-1 Rio)

-5 hulls still exist(3 in USA-My Moppie?-Mongoose-? 1 probably in GB McQueen Jeans-1 in Italy ex Mister Charlie)

 

[thedonz]

About the Mona Lou for Riggs in the Bahamas 500 of 1969, few days ago I have received from US a series of pages of contemporary Motor Boating magazine purchased on eBay. In the specific one in the pages about the Bahamas 500 is written that that Mona Lou was a new boat.

That looks like Don in the Magnum ?

 

[Brownie]

Up from the bottom: That is Don in the Magnum. See the hastily taped Magnum name on the Cigarette/Cary. I do not remember the inboard Patty Lou Bertram. Russ Specht was the Chief Engineer of Bertram from day one. Bertram was the only 'real' company in the boat business in Miami. Their engineer force, Russ, Lee Dana, Earl Harbert, Henry Vietia and a couple of others were second to none with their educations and ability. The rest of us had to fake it. The only thing that ever held Bertram back was the fact that it was a corporation, and did business like one. When I was with Holman Moody, we installed Ford gas turbines in many of the south Florida boat companies, and I must say that Bertram was was, by far, the best engineers of the bunch. I went there to teach them, and in many ways, they taught me........

 

[TrippM]

Trying to use a cardiac defibrillator to save this thread here the images that my friend Fabrizio has sent me of the 31' Bertram "Rio" .
With this boat the Panamianian Josè Arango won the President's Cup race in the 1981.
At the first sight I was certain to find me in front of the 1967 Fortney ex Zippè but then looking at her transom my certainties have staggered.
Zippè was a Bertram-32' - that I would define of 'first generation', while the "Rio" has the modified transom.
Then new boat also this? Or is it the ex Mona Lou of 1969?

Before it was "Rio" it was the "Orion". Not sure what it was called before that.

 

[Black Tornado]

Up from the bottom: That is Don in the Magnum. See the hastily taped Magnum name on the Cigarette/Cary. I do not remember the inboard Patty Lou Bertram. Russ Specht was the Chief Engineer of Bertram from day one. Bertram was the only 'real' company in the boat business in Miami. Their engineer force, Russ, Lee Dana, Earl Harbert, Henry Vietia and a couple of others were second to none with their educations and ability. The rest of us had to fake it. The only thing that ever held Bertram back was the fact that it was a corporation, and did business like one. When I was with Holman Moody, we installed Ford gas turbines in many of the south Florida boat companies, and I must say that Bertram was was, by far, the best engineers of the bunch. I went there to teach them, and in many ways, they taught me........

Then the real father of the 31' of 1967 and then of the 38' of 1974 (and of the prototypes of 36' of the 1973) it was Russ Specht as Chief Engineer.
While officially for the Bertram for competitions driven by Griffith and Bertram from the first 30' "Moppie" of 1960 to the 36' "Brave Moppie" of 1966 it results to be Ray Hunt but was it always Specht instead?

 

[Black Tornado]

Before it was "Rio" it was the "Orion". Not sure what it was called before that.

Do you know the year for the "Orion"? Driver?

 

[Brownie]

Hunt did the early ones.

 

[TrippM]

Do you know the year for the "Orion"? Driver?

I do not have the driver/owner information for Orion but I'm sure someone here will be able to fill us in.

 

[Black Tornado]

reproposing the list part two

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

race # - boat name - driver - engines -race year - notes

-8/77 - My Moppie - R. Bertram -Mercruiser 2x450 -1967-68-69 - drives shaft

-15/52 -Master Moppie -P.Rittmaster -H&M Ford 2x550 - 1967-68 - drives shaft

-80 -Ronda Lee II -J.Bakos/O.Lewis-Mercruiser 3x225 - 1967-68 -stern driv. SM#2

-90 -Sternwinder -W.Sirois -Mercruiser 2x450 -1967-68 -stern drives SM#2

-43 -Zippè -M.Fortney -H&M Ford 2x500 -1967-? -drives shaft?

-18 - Patty Lou -R.Rautbord - ? -1967-? -drives shaft

-90 -Mona Lou -O.Lewis? -Mercruiser 2x450? -1967-? -stern drives SM#2 -ex Sternwinder?

-70 -Mona Lou -O.Lewis -Mercruiser 2x450 -1968 -stern drives SM#3 - red version

-90/4 -Yellow Tornado -V.Balestrieri/D.Pruett -Mercruiser 2x450 -1968 -stern drives ex Sternwinder

-23 -Boss O'Nova -W.Wishnick -Mercruiser 2x475 -1969-70-71 -stern drives ex Mona Lou red

-53 -American Moppie-P.Rittmaster-Mercruiser 2x475 -1969 -stern drives

-70 -Mona Lou -M.Riggs -Mercruiser 2x475 -1969 -stern drives

-4/89 -Red Tornado -V.Balestrieri/F.Cosentino-Mercruiser 2x475-1969-70 -stern drives SM#3

-89 -White Tornado -F.Cosentino -Mercruiser 2x475 -1969 -stern drives SM#3

-18 -Fino -R.Rautbord -Mercruiser 2x475 -1969?-70-71? -stern drives ex 1969 Mona Lou?

-69 -Mister Charly -R.Bonelli -Mercruiser 2x475 -1970 -stern drives ex American Moppie

-303 -Quicksilver -J.Stenback/D.Silvera -Mercury 4x140 -1969-70-71 -outboards

-8 -Maelstrom -E.Lecarreaux -Mercruiser 2x475 -1970 -stern drives

-123 -American Moppie-T.Powell -Mercruiser 2x500 -1971 -drives shaft? ex Master Moppie

-123 -Canadian Moppie-T.Powell -Mercruiser 2x500 -1972 -drives s.? ex 1971 American Moppie

-5 -WD40 -O.Trost -Mercruiser 2x450 -1972 -stern drives ex Boss O'Nova

-65 -Moppie -F.Barker -Mercruiser 2x500 -1973 -drives shaft? ex Canadian Moppie

-S-3 -Mongoose -B.Cook -Mercruiser 2x500 -1974-75 -stern drives? ex Zippè?

-009 -McQeen Jeans -R.Kelly -Ford Sabre 2x300 -1978-79 -ex Moppie

- ? -Orion - ? - ? ? ? - ? -

-555 -Rio - J.Arango - Mercruiser 2x ? - 1981 - stern drives-ex Orion?


-12 are the hulls built surely(My Moppie-Master Moppie-Ronda Lee II-Sternwinder-Zippè-Patty Lou-red Mona Lou-American Moppie-1969 yellow Mona Lou-Red or White Tornado-Quicksilver-Maelstrom)

-6 boats of uncertain origins(1967 yellow Mona Lou-Red or White Tornado-Fino-Mongoose-Rio)

-21 race victories(7 Boss O'Nova-4 Red Tornado-2 Sternwinder+1 Yellow Tornado-1 Zippè-1 Mona Lou red-1 American Moppie 1969-1 White Tornado-1 Quicksilver-1 Mongoose-1 Rio)

-5 hulls still exist(3 in USA-My Moppie?-Mongoose-? 1 probably in GB McQueen Jeans-1 in Italy ex Mister Charlie)

list updated with red

 

[FLYING FISH]

Bertram List

Finally got round to analysing your list Marco.Been busy preparing another load of old films for the Boatmad Multimedia section, plus compiling short clips of the CTC races for a DVD that will accompany the annniverary book of the event in August 2010.

Right,here we go.

Thought Master Moppie raced in 1969 according to Crousey,but pics show it was American Moppie after all.

Ronda Lee II I have recorded as 3 x 310hp Mercruisers.Those 225hp seem a bit small anyway.

Sternwinder recorded as 475hp Mercruisers.

Patty Lou also raced in 1968 Hennesey Long Island July 17th & Hennesey Key West Nov 1st.Reports say 2 x 450hp H & M (Long Island) and 2 x 600hp H & M (Key West).Screwed up as usual!!!!

Yellow Tornado recorded as 475hp Mercruisers.

1973 Makarska - Pescara July 1st, Crousey states Monadori raced 36ft Cigarette `Mr.Charly`.What`s that all about?

Didn`t know `Quicksilver raced in 1969.What race?

American Moppie/Canadian Moppie was drive shaft.See Boatmad pics on land.

Moppie (F.Barker) recorded as 550hp Mercruisers.There is a shot of it racing in the 1973 CTC film on Boatmad with a black centreline piece of sterngear showing.See what you think.

I know the horsepowers recorded can be suspect,but we are in the hands of the journos like it or not.

What I am waiting for is a pronouncement on that flamin `Fino` boat.Was it new or second hand.History please anyone who knows.

As an aside I have also found that Dick Bertram used a borrowed boat (Zippie)for the 1966 Long Beach - San Francisco - Long Beach race,so maybe it was the 25ft Zippie.

 

[Black Tornado]

Bertram list answer

Waiting with the usual interest to yours new videos on Boatmad always greeted as only news in these stagnant waters of the offshore on the web, I answer point by point to your questions.

About the American Moppie I confirm.
In the 1969 Rittmaster raced with the new 31' "American Moppie"(next Mister Charly for Bonelli in 1970) of which also Crouse speaks in the chronicles of that year.
However I have the suspicion that the old "Master Moppie" was also renamed "American Moppie" before being sold to Powell.

Indeed also to me the power seemed too low to justify the choice of three engines for the Ronda Lee II but these were the only infos of which I had.

According to Searace for the whole season 1967 the Mercruisers had 450hp to the last race the Hurricane Classic those of the Sternwinder they seem to have 475hp. Considering that I keep on sustaining (with evidence) that that boat had already raced since July 19 it is possible that it had the motors from 450hp as all the others boats with the Merc.

I find arduous that the Holman & Moody succeed in increasing of well 150hp in so little time considering that the most accredited power for the H&Ms was of 450hp in the 1967.
Here he could tell us something Brownie....

Ok for the 475hp for Yellow Tornado considering that the Sternwinder also had that power.

I believe that the Italian informer of Crouse didn't know well the boats that raced in offshore in Italy in the 1973(as usual).
In all these years I have never felt to speak about a Cigarette 36' "Mister Charly."
I believe that Mondadori run the race back from Makarska with the old Bertram 31' of the his stepson Ronny Bonelli. I don't know the motives for which has opted for that boat instead of the classical his Cig. 36' Nicopao that drove in the first race from Pescara to Makarska.
However a photo exists that withdraws Mondadori with the helmet(but in beach clothes) at the helm of the Bertram.
I had forgotten to add the name of Mondadori to the my list.

About the Quicksilver 31' Bertram for Stenback I have an article on the Bahamas 500 of Motor Boating August 1969.
Stenback was forced to the retired because of problems to one of his four engines.
Sammy James had told Seeroy that before Silvera that boat had been of Stenback.

Cleary visible the shafts came out of the hull of American Moppie.(If only I was remembered to go to see that photo before)
Less clear but intuitable for the Canadian Moppie in run (any photo found of it in "no-race" library)

Speaking of the mysterious object in the low middle stern in the 1973 Moppie I believe both the same that can be seen in the stern of the Jeans Mcqueen.
I will take the frame from the video of the CTC 73 and I will invite the experts to give one explanation here.

The horsepowers are as the dimensions of the boats;everyone shoots his numbers.Must we resign us?

I think that you referred to the Fin of the 1970 of your library-Magazines Pics on Boatmad. A color photo would be enough for identifying it or no as ex Mona Lou of the Bahamas 500 of 1969 with Riggs.

After the sinking of the Brave Moppie it is possible that Bertram could be...without a boat and so for a race he jumped on the first Zippè of Fortney.

 

[NNRT]

Think the Orion was "8" Ball - Eddie Lecarauxs boat - just repainted from Yellow to Red -

Phil