Ratickle
Founding Member / Super Moderator
Wasn't there one 32' Phantom built?
Headlines
Let's talk SVL's!!! 2010 is coming fast!
- Thread starter imco offshore
- Start date
Wasn't there one 32' Phantom built?
DAREDEVIL
Banned
Its 29', 11" !!!! ( under 30 ')
DAREDEVIL
Banned
Not yet, but Will had plans to do so !!! I do think that he changed this plan after Biloxi , not 100% shure tho !
George,
This is an excellent mission statement. Clearly, it protects the current fleet of boats by tamping down the ruinous old school of thought which promotes uncontrolled rulemaking that only favors the newest, know-it-all-know-nothing-self-proclaimed deep pocket who seeks to promote his/her own self-interest while trying to convince the rest of us that he/she has the grand vision for success. Do not be intimidated by the :icon_bs: The sport has seen that kind of nonsense come and go for decades and it never, ever works.
Protect the current fleet of teams who have invested in the sport and been around for awhile, first. Focus on incrementally increasing that fleet with a tight set of rules that maintains competitive balance, second. Go back and print my first post on this topic, keep it in your wallet and read it often. You and the rest of your followers will appreciate you for it.
Bullhead
Contributor
I guess when you form your own rules you can do anything to the bottom of your boat you want....even if the race organization you are racing with deem them not within the limits of their rules?...just trying to understand
What racing organization, and who within that organization, deemed what illegal...just trying to understand.
DAREDEVIL
Banned
I am kind of with BULLHEAD ...
Who makes the rules and when are they gonna be posted, so everybody knows what , when ,where ??!!
I mean if u have rules and then ,,i mean that should be it !!!!
Why would u keep changing them over and over ????
28-30 ( 32 ? )
sealed 525 EFI
weight
Bravo / Imco drive
canopy
0-100 steps
mold for deck and hull.....oh wait......somebodys deck is not from a mold anymore ?? mhh
gotchya
Who makes the rules and when are they gonna be posted, so everybody knows what , when ,where ??!!
I mean if u have rules and then ,,i mean that should be it !!!!
Why would u keep changing them over and over ????
28-30 ( 32 ? )
sealed 525 EFI
weight
Bravo / Imco drive
canopy
0-100 steps
mold for deck and hull.....oh wait......somebodys deck is not from a mold anymore ?? mhh
gotchya
imco offshore
Competitor / Charter Member
what deck mold rule talking about,,,most new boats have dive platforms on the decks so they are custom fit,damed off,, cut to fit,, lowered, at the bow,, sides and transom to fit when you put the deck on a boat that has been damed shortened lowered and beck lowered..dd you are right,,darn
I heard this too. Something about the imco boat having some modifications that takes it out of the limits of the rules....any truth to that?
imco offshore
Competitor / Charter Member
can I ask what your talking about ? I have no clue ! I see this is your first post ,,so I would think you know someone who told you this,, please help. thanks
DAREDEVIL
Banned
Thanx . :driving:
Racerguymiami
New member
SBIP 2010 Rules for SVL
As a few of you may be aware, I am in the process of building a boat for this class so this topic is very important for me. I asked the question a while back, what criteria does this new boat need to meet in order to be legal in the class. i was told a tech inspection will be carried out at the place of build to tech the boat. For me this is the cart before the horse. With that said, this is the only set of written rules I can find anywhere for this class so this is what will be used as a guideline for the build. I watched Martin Sanborn give an interveiw stating that this is the only class that uses the same rules throughout the racing orgs. This led me to believe that the below rules ARE the grail that the class and racers needs to live by in order to compete against each other fairly, regardless of the org your boat may be registered with. I looked on OSS site but it;s under construction. If OSS are using a different set of rules, where, how and when can I get a copy? I would prefer to have a written copy in front of me to build by rather than anything verbal.
Look at 6.2.1.1
Then 6.7.2
Then 6.7.3
6.
SUPER V LIMITED™
(Inboard Monohulls – Numbers Only)
6.1.
INTRODUCTION -
6.1.1.
In General - SUPER V LIMITED™ is part of the SBIP Super V Series™. This class is an integral part of the SBIP Super Series™ including the related television productions, sponsorship, marketing and promotional programs. The SBIP rules which follow are safety and competition based. The formula endeavors to keep competition close and exciting, principally by restricting technology changes and limiting the differences between racing equipment from team to team in order to ensure maximum excitement and enjoyment for racers and fans alike.
6.1.2.
Performance Parameters/Intent of Rules - The spirit and intent of these rules, thus, are to limit maximum competition performance to safe 2010 Technical Rulebook 3/23/2010 Page 51 of 64
and competitive speeds not exceeding straightaway speeds of 95mph. This parameter is merely a guideline for SBIP Officials in the creation and/or amendment of technical rules to maintain competitive balance, contain costs and most importantly to maximize safety. Accordingly, SBIP reserves the right to take whatever actions are necessary, at any time, to ensure that boats competing in the class perform within this parameter in competition. This does not mean, however, that a boat exceeding this speed during an official speed record competition or an actual race shall be penalized automatically. No pretense is made of having designed a foolproof set of rules and regulations.
6.2.
Interpretation of Rules - If there is a disagreement or dispute regarding the meaning or application of these rules, the interpretation and application of the SBIP shall prevail.
6.2.1.
Changes to Existing or Introduction of New Equipment –
6.2.1.1.
WARNING TO RACERS – IF THIS RULEBOOK DOES NOT SPECIFICALLY SAY THAT YOU CAN DO OR USE SOMETHING, THEN YOU MUST CONSIDER THAT THE ACTION, CHANGE OR COMPONENT IS ILLEGAL. NO EQUIPMENT OR RACE BOAT IN VIOLATION OF THESE RULES WILL BE CONSIDERED AS HAVING BEEN APPROVED BY REASON OF HAVING PASSED THROUGH PRE RACE INSPECTION, OR POST RACE INSPECTION AT A PRIOR EVENT, “UNOBSERVED”.
6.2.2.
Rules Changes to Maintain Competitive Balance - SBIP RECOGNIZES THAT THERE ARE CONSIDERABLE DIFFERENCES IN BOAT DESIGN. ACCORDINGLY, SBIP RESERVES THE RIGHT TO MAKE ADJUSTMENTS TO BOATS, ENGINES, DRIVES OR PROPELLERS, ETC., INDIVIDUALLY OR
2010 Technical Rulebook 3/23/2010 Page 52 of 64
CATEGORICALLY, TO MAINTAIN COMPETITIVE BALANCE BASED UPON EXPERIENCE IN RACE CONDITIONS.
6.3.
BOAT SPECIFICATIONS:
Super V Limited
Hull Type: Monohull (Canopy Recommended)
Length: 26’– 0” minimum to 32’-0” maximum
Beam Maximum: 8’6”
Number of Engines: One
Weight Minimum: 4750 lbs.
Engine Type: SBIP Certified Race Engine
6.4.
Minimum Weight Measurement - will be determined at the end of the race. The weight will be an all-up weight including engines, residual fuel, drives, propellers, fixed ballast (i.e. that which is used from start through completion of race), all hull drain plugs removed, and safety equipment as stated in the racing rules. The following is not included in the all-up weight: crew, lifejackets, crash helmets and bilge water. A single point lifting harness is mandatory for all boats. It shall be the responsibility of the crew to insure that the single point lifting system harness positions the race boat such as to drain all onboard ballast tanks per the rule G-2 of this section.
6.5.
Maximum Beam Measurement - The maximum beam shall be no more than 2’ wider than the beam measured at the transom chine to chine.
6.6.
Non-conforming Boats (“Grandfathering”) – Pre-Existing canopied boats registered in any year from 1997–2002, 1998, 1999, 2000, or 2001 Super V Limited Classes, may be approved for competition provided that the owner submits a written request for approval and said request is approved by SBIP, in its sole and absolute discretion, at least 30 days prior to competition. Notwithstanding the foregoing, these boats shall not be eligible for competition
2010 Technical Rulebook 3/23/2010 Page 53 of 64
beyond the 2005 season unless they comply with these rules. Registered equipment ownership changes will be allowed on approved, registered and currently competing non-conforming boats. Hulls and decks racing under this "grandfather rule", which become lost or destroyed, must be replaced by equipment that meets the then current rules for Super V Limited.
6.7.
Other –
6.7.1.
Hull steps - are allowed and must be vented to the atmosphere either internally or externally.
6.7.2.
Extensions - There shall be no additional external functional or flotation components added to the basic hull or mold (i.e.: no flotation tubes, length or width extensions etc. added to the original mold or hull).
6.7.3.
Wings - No aerodynamic devices are allowed, no wings, no vertical fins, and no air entrapment or air lifting hull designs.
6.7.4.
Bow anti-dive planes – are not allowed.
6.7.5.
Multi hull configurations - (catamaran or trimaran) or other hull or deck shapes specifically designed to create aerodynamic lift are not permitted.
6.8.
ENGINE SPECIFICATIONS -
6.8.1.
Approved Inboard Engines –
6.8.1.1.
“SBIP Certified Race Engine” (1) One (Refer to Pg 12 #1.12)
6.8.2.
Engine Installations
6.8.3.
Rear engine mounts - are permitted.
2010 Technical Rulebook 3/23/2010 Page 54 of 64
6.9.
OUTDRIVE SPECIFICATIONS:
6.9.1.
Approved Models –
6.9.2.
The Mercruiser Bravo One, XZ, XR, XR Sportmaster, BMAX, and XR Short Sportmaster Drives are approved for competition.
6.9.3.
The IMCO SC Xtreme Advantage Drives are approved for competition provided they comply with all other applicable rules.
6.9.4.
The Volvo DPX Duo Prop is approved for competition.
6.9.5.
Nosecones - Approved Nosecones are allowed. Check with SBIP prior to using a particular nosecone to ensure it is approved for competition.
6.9.6.
Crash Boxes - are not allowed.
6.9.7.
Gear Ratios – The maximum gear reduction allowed is 1.69:1
6.9.8.
Dry sumping - of drives is not allowed.
6.9.9.
Shifting - Drives must be capable of shifting forward, neutral and reverse with the engines running.
6.9.10.
Modifications - Drive modifications (i.e. one-piece propeller shafts, heavy-duty bearing carriers, etc.) only to increase reliability are allowed. Parts must be available to all racers at reasonable commercial prices. It shall be legal to close (fill in) the outside water intake slots (one each side) on the MerCruiser Sportmaster and Sportmaster Short gearcases to eliminate excessive water pressure. The slots may be filled by any means, but the original shape of the gearcase may NOT be altered. Any other modifications to the outdrive (s) or any related components must first be approved by SBIP in writing prior to being used in competition.
6.9.11.
Transmissions - Transmissions are not permitted in the Super V Limited classes.
2010 Technical Rulebook 3/23/2010 Page 55 of 64
6.9.12.
Standoff boxes - are permitted. Standoff boxes must be of a design, size and length that have been approved in writing by SBIP. Check with SBIP prior to using a particular standoff box to ensure it is approved for competition. Standoff boxes are limited to a maximum of 15”.
6.9.13.
Jackshafts - are allowed.
6.9.14.
X-Dimension - There is no X-Dimension limitation.
6.9.15.
Casings - The upper and lower drive case housing must remain in its original production configuration. The drive case housing may not be shortened or modified. Blue printing is allowed however the casings must meet the specifications of the SBIP Template.
6.9.16.
Propeller Rotation - Inboard or Outboard Rotation of propellers is allowed.
6.10.
PROPELLER SPECIFICATIONS:
6.10.1.
Castings - Propellers must be manufactured from castings.
6.10.2.
Modifications - Propellers may be modified from the original factory casting with grinding and machining.
6.10.3.
Forged, billet - or other types of propellers are not allowed.
6.10.4.
Availability - Propellers must be available to all racers within a reasonable delivery time.
6.10.5.
Approved Propellers – Cast propellers must be approved by SBIP. Three, four, and five blade cast propellers manufactured by Hering, Hydromotive, Throttle-Up, and Mercury are approved. Six blade cast propellers manufactured by Hering, Throttle-Up, and Hydromotive are approved. Other manufacturers of cast propellers may apply to SBIP for approval based on the following criteria:
2010 Technical Rulebook 3/23/2010 Page 56 of 64
6.10.5.1.1.
Reasonable prices and available to all racers.
6.10.5.1.2.
Manufacturer maintains national availability through a national dealer network.
6.10.5.1.3.
Units are available to, and generally recognized by, approved boat manufacturers as OEM equipment.
6.10.6.
Limitations/Inspection –
6.10.6.1.
All propellers will be measured and limited to a minimum thickness. The standard blade thickness will be the normal SBIP Lab Finish specification.
As a few of you may be aware, I am in the process of building a boat for this class so this topic is very important for me. I asked the question a while back, what criteria does this new boat need to meet in order to be legal in the class. i was told a tech inspection will be carried out at the place of build to tech the boat. For me this is the cart before the horse. With that said, this is the only set of written rules I can find anywhere for this class so this is what will be used as a guideline for the build. I watched Martin Sanborn give an interveiw stating that this is the only class that uses the same rules throughout the racing orgs. This led me to believe that the below rules ARE the grail that the class and racers needs to live by in order to compete against each other fairly, regardless of the org your boat may be registered with. I looked on OSS site but it;s under construction. If OSS are using a different set of rules, where, how and when can I get a copy? I would prefer to have a written copy in front of me to build by rather than anything verbal.
Look at 6.2.1.1
Then 6.7.2
Then 6.7.3
6.
SUPER V LIMITED™
(Inboard Monohulls – Numbers Only)
6.1.
INTRODUCTION -
6.1.1.
In General - SUPER V LIMITED™ is part of the SBIP Super V Series™. This class is an integral part of the SBIP Super Series™ including the related television productions, sponsorship, marketing and promotional programs. The SBIP rules which follow are safety and competition based. The formula endeavors to keep competition close and exciting, principally by restricting technology changes and limiting the differences between racing equipment from team to team in order to ensure maximum excitement and enjoyment for racers and fans alike.
6.1.2.
Performance Parameters/Intent of Rules - The spirit and intent of these rules, thus, are to limit maximum competition performance to safe 2010 Technical Rulebook 3/23/2010 Page 51 of 64
and competitive speeds not exceeding straightaway speeds of 95mph. This parameter is merely a guideline for SBIP Officials in the creation and/or amendment of technical rules to maintain competitive balance, contain costs and most importantly to maximize safety. Accordingly, SBIP reserves the right to take whatever actions are necessary, at any time, to ensure that boats competing in the class perform within this parameter in competition. This does not mean, however, that a boat exceeding this speed during an official speed record competition or an actual race shall be penalized automatically. No pretense is made of having designed a foolproof set of rules and regulations.
6.2.
Interpretation of Rules - If there is a disagreement or dispute regarding the meaning or application of these rules, the interpretation and application of the SBIP shall prevail.
6.2.1.
Changes to Existing or Introduction of New Equipment –
6.2.1.1.
WARNING TO RACERS – IF THIS RULEBOOK DOES NOT SPECIFICALLY SAY THAT YOU CAN DO OR USE SOMETHING, THEN YOU MUST CONSIDER THAT THE ACTION, CHANGE OR COMPONENT IS ILLEGAL. NO EQUIPMENT OR RACE BOAT IN VIOLATION OF THESE RULES WILL BE CONSIDERED AS HAVING BEEN APPROVED BY REASON OF HAVING PASSED THROUGH PRE RACE INSPECTION, OR POST RACE INSPECTION AT A PRIOR EVENT, “UNOBSERVED”.
6.2.2.
Rules Changes to Maintain Competitive Balance - SBIP RECOGNIZES THAT THERE ARE CONSIDERABLE DIFFERENCES IN BOAT DESIGN. ACCORDINGLY, SBIP RESERVES THE RIGHT TO MAKE ADJUSTMENTS TO BOATS, ENGINES, DRIVES OR PROPELLERS, ETC., INDIVIDUALLY OR
2010 Technical Rulebook 3/23/2010 Page 52 of 64
CATEGORICALLY, TO MAINTAIN COMPETITIVE BALANCE BASED UPON EXPERIENCE IN RACE CONDITIONS.
6.3.
BOAT SPECIFICATIONS:
Super V Limited
Hull Type: Monohull (Canopy Recommended)
Length: 26’– 0” minimum to 32’-0” maximum
Beam Maximum: 8’6”
Number of Engines: One
Weight Minimum: 4750 lbs.
Engine Type: SBIP Certified Race Engine
6.4.
Minimum Weight Measurement - will be determined at the end of the race. The weight will be an all-up weight including engines, residual fuel, drives, propellers, fixed ballast (i.e. that which is used from start through completion of race), all hull drain plugs removed, and safety equipment as stated in the racing rules. The following is not included in the all-up weight: crew, lifejackets, crash helmets and bilge water. A single point lifting harness is mandatory for all boats. It shall be the responsibility of the crew to insure that the single point lifting system harness positions the race boat such as to drain all onboard ballast tanks per the rule G-2 of this section.
6.5.
Maximum Beam Measurement - The maximum beam shall be no more than 2’ wider than the beam measured at the transom chine to chine.
6.6.
Non-conforming Boats (“Grandfathering”) – Pre-Existing canopied boats registered in any year from 1997–2002, 1998, 1999, 2000, or 2001 Super V Limited Classes, may be approved for competition provided that the owner submits a written request for approval and said request is approved by SBIP, in its sole and absolute discretion, at least 30 days prior to competition. Notwithstanding the foregoing, these boats shall not be eligible for competition
2010 Technical Rulebook 3/23/2010 Page 53 of 64
beyond the 2005 season unless they comply with these rules. Registered equipment ownership changes will be allowed on approved, registered and currently competing non-conforming boats. Hulls and decks racing under this "grandfather rule", which become lost or destroyed, must be replaced by equipment that meets the then current rules for Super V Limited.
6.7.
Other –
6.7.1.
Hull steps - are allowed and must be vented to the atmosphere either internally or externally.
6.7.2.
Extensions - There shall be no additional external functional or flotation components added to the basic hull or mold (i.e.: no flotation tubes, length or width extensions etc. added to the original mold or hull).
6.7.3.
Wings - No aerodynamic devices are allowed, no wings, no vertical fins, and no air entrapment or air lifting hull designs.
6.7.4.
Bow anti-dive planes – are not allowed.
6.7.5.
Multi hull configurations - (catamaran or trimaran) or other hull or deck shapes specifically designed to create aerodynamic lift are not permitted.
6.8.
ENGINE SPECIFICATIONS -
6.8.1.
Approved Inboard Engines –
6.8.1.1.
“SBIP Certified Race Engine” (1) One (Refer to Pg 12 #1.12)
6.8.2.
Engine Installations
6.8.3.
Rear engine mounts - are permitted.
2010 Technical Rulebook 3/23/2010 Page 54 of 64
6.9.
OUTDRIVE SPECIFICATIONS:
6.9.1.
Approved Models –
6.9.2.
The Mercruiser Bravo One, XZ, XR, XR Sportmaster, BMAX, and XR Short Sportmaster Drives are approved for competition.
6.9.3.
The IMCO SC Xtreme Advantage Drives are approved for competition provided they comply with all other applicable rules.
6.9.4.
The Volvo DPX Duo Prop is approved for competition.
6.9.5.
Nosecones - Approved Nosecones are allowed. Check with SBIP prior to using a particular nosecone to ensure it is approved for competition.
6.9.6.
Crash Boxes - are not allowed.
6.9.7.
Gear Ratios – The maximum gear reduction allowed is 1.69:1
6.9.8.
Dry sumping - of drives is not allowed.
6.9.9.
Shifting - Drives must be capable of shifting forward, neutral and reverse with the engines running.
6.9.10.
Modifications - Drive modifications (i.e. one-piece propeller shafts, heavy-duty bearing carriers, etc.) only to increase reliability are allowed. Parts must be available to all racers at reasonable commercial prices. It shall be legal to close (fill in) the outside water intake slots (one each side) on the MerCruiser Sportmaster and Sportmaster Short gearcases to eliminate excessive water pressure. The slots may be filled by any means, but the original shape of the gearcase may NOT be altered. Any other modifications to the outdrive (s) or any related components must first be approved by SBIP in writing prior to being used in competition.
6.9.11.
Transmissions - Transmissions are not permitted in the Super V Limited classes.
2010 Technical Rulebook 3/23/2010 Page 55 of 64
6.9.12.
Standoff boxes - are permitted. Standoff boxes must be of a design, size and length that have been approved in writing by SBIP. Check with SBIP prior to using a particular standoff box to ensure it is approved for competition. Standoff boxes are limited to a maximum of 15”.
6.9.13.
Jackshafts - are allowed.
6.9.14.
X-Dimension - There is no X-Dimension limitation.
6.9.15.
Casings - The upper and lower drive case housing must remain in its original production configuration. The drive case housing may not be shortened or modified. Blue printing is allowed however the casings must meet the specifications of the SBIP Template.
6.9.16.
Propeller Rotation - Inboard or Outboard Rotation of propellers is allowed.
6.10.
PROPELLER SPECIFICATIONS:
6.10.1.
Castings - Propellers must be manufactured from castings.
6.10.2.
Modifications - Propellers may be modified from the original factory casting with grinding and machining.
6.10.3.
Forged, billet - or other types of propellers are not allowed.
6.10.4.
Availability - Propellers must be available to all racers within a reasonable delivery time.
6.10.5.
Approved Propellers – Cast propellers must be approved by SBIP. Three, four, and five blade cast propellers manufactured by Hering, Hydromotive, Throttle-Up, and Mercury are approved. Six blade cast propellers manufactured by Hering, Throttle-Up, and Hydromotive are approved. Other manufacturers of cast propellers may apply to SBIP for approval based on the following criteria:
2010 Technical Rulebook 3/23/2010 Page 56 of 64
6.10.5.1.1.
Reasonable prices and available to all racers.
6.10.5.1.2.
Manufacturer maintains national availability through a national dealer network.
6.10.5.1.3.
Units are available to, and generally recognized by, approved boat manufacturers as OEM equipment.
6.10.6.
Limitations/Inspection –
6.10.6.1.
All propellers will be measured and limited to a minimum thickness. The standard blade thickness will be the normal SBIP Lab Finish specification.
Sean Stinson
Founding Member/Contributor
Look here's the deal....it is pretty much a 30' boat with 525 / bravo pkg after that the rest is a crap shoot....
DAREDEVIL
Banned
Racerguymiami
New member
I'm all for that. I also have a lot of respect for Steve. But how do you tell a boat manufacturer to ask his competition on how the boat should be built. Do you really think a company like OL would ask the field of racers for the class rules and then begin expensive tooling based on a verbal conversation.
I was asked to build a race boat by a customer who was blown away with the racing in Biloxi. He originally wanted the open cockpit version to race production but decided to go SVL and is cutting a check to have one built. Now, if the boat is not a winning boat out of the box can I start moving and adjusting strakes, adding aerodynamic features? If it is a winning boat can others in the class start modding the hull and deck? These are the questions I am being asked. The new owner has been reading these threads also and because of what he has read in earlier posts has asked that I get a set of class rules and discuss with him so we can go forward with the build. We looked at SBI rules and frankly, they appear to be pretty wide open. Do they apply for OSS/P1? I'm just asking for a rulebook that defines the class.
I was asked to build a race boat by a customer who was blown away with the racing in Biloxi. He originally wanted the open cockpit version to race production but decided to go SVL and is cutting a check to have one built. Now, if the boat is not a winning boat out of the box can I start moving and adjusting strakes, adding aerodynamic features? If it is a winning boat can others in the class start modding the hull and deck? These are the questions I am being asked. The new owner has been reading these threads also and because of what he has read in earlier posts has asked that I get a set of class rules and discuss with him so we can go forward with the build. We looked at SBI rules and frankly, they appear to be pretty wide open. Do they apply for OSS/P1? I'm just asking for a rulebook that defines the class.
I would not worry about P1 or OSS. Both are figments of a few lingering imaginations. I think you will see the current SVL fleet adopt a set of rules which they will race under wherever they compete, whether it be OPA or SBI.
imco offshore
Competitor / Charter Member
you and racer guy are both right , their will be an SVL WEB SITE UP IN THE NEXT FEW DAYS ,,,were working on trying to unify all the org ,s rules,, they are really close but,, NOT THE EXACT SAME that is where i,m having a little trouble,and have some people picking the convenient rules out of different org,s the class is involved in all these decisions,,were going thru a transition year because of the schedule we voted on,,but were real close,,sorry for any inconvenience,,, George Jr. :USA:
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