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Handicapping The Worlds and the Future of Offshore After
- Thread starter Speed on the Water
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Ratickle
Founding Member / Super Moderator
It is amazing how many different people within the orgs are talking to people in other orgs, and the key people at some of the key sites.
Who will join up with whom? Who will make it on their own?? Who will piss who off even more???
This is really getting interesting.
Who will join up with whom? Who will make it on their own?? Who will piss who off even more???
This is really getting interesting.
ozarkjignpig
New member
Can we make some decisions!
What weight change for S-class is in discussion? I think the 300r's would be a fun motor, but not until the 2020 season....weighs about the same and 40% more torque over the 300xs!
What weight change for S-class is in discussion? I think the 300r's would be a fun motor, but not until the 2020 season....weighs about the same and 40% more torque over the 300xs!
Ratickle
Founding Member / Super Moderator
They are talking about adding weight.
One of the reasons, the new boats built expressively for the 300's are faster than the converted old boats. The 300's are 505 lbs (with the 20" mid they come with) versus the old 2.5's which were 375 with the 15" mid they came with. So the older boats can't make the minimum class weight with the added engine weight. Mercury has agreed to provide replacement powerheads for the current Opti for 5 years, then the class may switch to the new 300V8 (maybe sooner depending on how Mercury does with P1). But, the new 300V8 weighs 546 lbs, and currently comes in nothing shorter than a 20" shaft, like the Opti currently used.
The other reason that I hope they consider, the canopy structure for the safety of the team members. For instance, Skater will not make a canopy with a foam core. It is too weak to protect the occupants in a boat-to-boat crash or a really hard/fast flip. The shear, compression, and tensile strength of balsa is way higher than any of the foams to start with, and stays even stronger than foam cores with usage over time.
There are two reasons for that, one is that when you have a curved surface with a panel, such as a canopy, one surface is in compression and one is in tension. So, when the panel flexes, during either temperature changes or movement of the hull during a race, the sandwich panels move differently than the core panel. So without the shear-strength in the panel to begin with, the skins move differently relative to each other and the panel becomes weaker and weaker with time. As they separate, and the structural integrity of the panel is reduced, the entire structure becomes compromised. Think of it as a magazine. You have one that gets wet and all of the pages stick together, it's hard to bend. You bend it again and again, the pages separate, and you can flex it easily. Because you are not bending the end-grain balsa pieces, they do not have the same issue and the sandwich panel retains it strength throughout its life. (Assuming you do not allow water to penetrate the core over time).
Examples of the difference in initial strength: the shear strength of a 9lb/ft^3 balsa core is 427psi, shear on a 8 lb/ft^3 Crosslinked PVC Foam is 358psi. Tensil on the same balsa 1886psi, the foam is 636psi. Compressive strength on the balsa, 1837 psi, the foam, 345.
So, balsa is much stronger to begin with, and does not deteriorate over time when used in a curved panel, so is therefore safer. Those numbers are for comparable Balsa and Foam, not the lighter foam used in the lamination of some of the race boats. So, the biggest drawback is weight. A balsa canopied boat is about 300 lbs heavier than a foam canopied boat.
So, I hope they take both engine weight and hull weight into their current discussions.
Safety should not be compromised for weight!!! Ask Nick how well his canopy fared when he flipped it in St Clair last year at about 85mph.
One of the reasons, the new boats built expressively for the 300's are faster than the converted old boats. The 300's are 505 lbs (with the 20" mid they come with) versus the old 2.5's which were 375 with the 15" mid they came with. So the older boats can't make the minimum class weight with the added engine weight. Mercury has agreed to provide replacement powerheads for the current Opti for 5 years, then the class may switch to the new 300V8 (maybe sooner depending on how Mercury does with P1). But, the new 300V8 weighs 546 lbs, and currently comes in nothing shorter than a 20" shaft, like the Opti currently used.
The other reason that I hope they consider, the canopy structure for the safety of the team members. For instance, Skater will not make a canopy with a foam core. It is too weak to protect the occupants in a boat-to-boat crash or a really hard/fast flip. The shear, compression, and tensile strength of balsa is way higher than any of the foams to start with, and stays even stronger than foam cores with usage over time.
There are two reasons for that, one is that when you have a curved surface with a panel, such as a canopy, one surface is in compression and one is in tension. So, when the panel flexes, during either temperature changes or movement of the hull during a race, the sandwich panels move differently than the core panel. So without the shear-strength in the panel to begin with, the skins move differently relative to each other and the panel becomes weaker and weaker with time. As they separate, and the structural integrity of the panel is reduced, the entire structure becomes compromised. Think of it as a magazine. You have one that gets wet and all of the pages stick together, it's hard to bend. You bend it again and again, the pages separate, and you can flex it easily. Because you are not bending the end-grain balsa pieces, they do not have the same issue and the sandwich panel retains it strength throughout its life. (Assuming you do not allow water to penetrate the core over time).
Examples of the difference in initial strength: the shear strength of a 9lb/ft^3 balsa core is 427psi, shear on a 8 lb/ft^3 Crosslinked PVC Foam is 358psi. Tensil on the same balsa 1886psi, the foam is 636psi. Compressive strength on the balsa, 1837 psi, the foam, 345.
So, balsa is much stronger to begin with, and does not deteriorate over time when used in a curved panel, so is therefore safer. Those numbers are for comparable Balsa and Foam, not the lighter foam used in the lamination of some of the race boats. So, the biggest drawback is weight. A balsa canopied boat is about 300 lbs heavier than a foam canopied boat.
So, I hope they take both engine weight and hull weight into their current discussions.
Safety should not be compromised for weight!!! Ask Nick how well his canopy fared when he flipped it in St Clair last year at about 85mph.
Ratickle
Founding Member / Super Moderator
In SVL the question is about the engines.
Currently OPA has two SVL classes, SVL and SVL-X. At the OPA World's in Englewood, there were 8 SVL's and 6 SVL-X's. SBI and RWO do not have separate classes like OPA.
The engine differences; SVL-X is a modified 502 bored out to 510 CuIn, after market intake, after market Dart heads, higher compression ratio, single Holley carb, etc., limited to 5400 RPM. The OPA SVL engine is a stock, sealed, Merc 525 limited to 5450 RPM. The discussions in this class are what to do with the stock 525's since Mercury does not support the platform anymore. The original plan was to eliminate the class after 2019 and require all boats to meet the new 510 CuIn carb engine rule. There are now discussions about using the 525 and allowing the engines to be rebuilt to the stock specifications and be dyno'd at Smitty's shop and sealed there. I have no idea what the outcome will be of those discussions. One of the current issues is that Smitty bought a new Phantom SVL hull to build and run with his boys. You can imagine the off-the-record conversations and comments since Smitty is Chief Referee and his boys are the inspectors for compliance to the rules.
In SBI and RWO the two engines are approved to run against each other in the same class. But, a stock 502 CuIn 525 at 8.4:1 cannot keep up with a modified 510 CuIn 9:1 modified motor, so the stock 525 boats do not show up to participate.
Currently OPA has two SVL classes, SVL and SVL-X. At the OPA World's in Englewood, there were 8 SVL's and 6 SVL-X's. SBI and RWO do not have separate classes like OPA.
The engine differences; SVL-X is a modified 502 bored out to 510 CuIn, after market intake, after market Dart heads, higher compression ratio, single Holley carb, etc., limited to 5400 RPM. The OPA SVL engine is a stock, sealed, Merc 525 limited to 5450 RPM. The discussions in this class are what to do with the stock 525's since Mercury does not support the platform anymore. The original plan was to eliminate the class after 2019 and require all boats to meet the new 510 CuIn carb engine rule. There are now discussions about using the 525 and allowing the engines to be rebuilt to the stock specifications and be dyno'd at Smitty's shop and sealed there. I have no idea what the outcome will be of those discussions. One of the current issues is that Smitty bought a new Phantom SVL hull to build and run with his boys. You can imagine the off-the-record conversations and comments since Smitty is Chief Referee and his boys are the inspectors for compliance to the rules.
In SBI and RWO the two engines are approved to run against each other in the same class. But, a stock 502 CuIn 525 at 8.4:1 cannot keep up with a modified 510 CuIn 9:1 modified motor, so the stock 525 boats do not show up to participate.
Ratickle
Founding Member / Super Moderator
In Extreme, the issue is also the engines. They have said all year that they are changing to the Mercury 1100 as their only engine allowed. Personally, I think that is great. However, it will make some big differences in the class.
The big questions, in my mind, what will the minimum boat weight be? What will the minimum boat length and tunnel width be?
The big questions, in my mind, what will the minimum boat weight be? What will the minimum boat length and tunnel width be?
Ratickle
Founding Member / Super Moderator
Obviously, unless they make the minimum weight huge, boats like the 48 and 50 MTI's and Mystics will be obsolete. In Key West everybody saw how close a good race boat with 1000 to 1100 HP, instead 0f 1650 or 1800 HP, could run in spite of the huge HP disadvantage.
Waiting to see how it shakes out.
Waiting to see how it shakes out.
Ratickle
Founding Member / Super Moderator
I did talk to some of the key people within the class at PRI. There are still some issues to contend with. One thing they had heard, the 6 races would be with the 1100's but Key West would allow an Extreme class with the existing big motors. But, they were not positive that would happen. Seems like a long shot to me, unless they added an 1100 class and kept the Extreme class as it is?
Ratickle
Founding Member / Super Moderator
One of the big issues, I am told about the 1100 switch, Mercury will not step up and convert the 1350's, 1650's, 1800's to the 100's. And, no one can agree on having someone else do the conversion.
Never thought of a concern like that. One kind of always assumes that money doesn't matter to these kind of teams. But, it would probably be a big expense.
Never thought of a concern like that. One kind of always assumes that money doesn't matter to these kind of teams. But, it would probably be a big expense.
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