Got Serious P O W E R ??? !!!

[Raylar]

Nice part!!

Potter has built some nice lookin mills there and those Whipples and intercoolers are a big as the base engine-WOW! ITS TOP HEAVY!
I am scratchin my head along with Eddie and others here why one would spend that much money and go wet sump, and try to get what appears to be one Aeromotive pump to supply the fuel needed for 1600HP. I've like others here have seen some of Sterlings 1600's and I never seen one with wet sump and that fuel system, but what the heck some people got the "answers" sure I don't , way outta my league! In any event I am sure there should be dyno work to prove the outputs. Good Luck Guys! Nice build and hope its everything everbody is looking for, not to mention F***ing Fast!!

Best Regards,
Ray @ Raylar

 

[SHARKEY-IMAGES]

They are set up to run 1300 on 93 octane.
I was told they can be turned up to produce 1600 Maybe it was 1500 ??? . Perhaps other mods need to be done to achieve that but it didn't sound like there was much to do.

So what do they sound like on the Dyno ??? :cheers2:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMGA7EO0nq0

 

[SHARKEY-IMAGES]

OK... So here it is ....... ON PUMP GAS !!!

1300 / 1500 pump gas marine engine 1300 HP @ 6200 RPM and 1128 lb ft on pump gas

Would RACE FUEL get them another 100 ???

 

[2112]

You actually can support it with a 10 an and a bunch of pressure. Two problems though: it looks to have a Mefi ecm judging from the plugs and such. A mefi will only support high impedence injectors and the 5.0/8.3 Whipple only has room for 10 injectors.(the quadrotors can accept 12 injectors) The largest high impedence injector is 65 lb. There has been talk of a 75 or 80, but I haven't seen it yet. (10) 65 lb injectors will only support about 1500 hp, with a ton of pressure. That leads to problem 2. I don't think that Aeromotive fuel pump has the capacity to run the pressure and volume needed to support 1600 hp.
Not trying to start anything, just answering a question and trying to understand. Maybe he knows something that I don't
Regardless, they are very nice looking.
Eddie

Thanks,

I have rigged only my own boats and engines and have used several different manufacturer's pumps. One thing they all have in common is the advice that undersized lines defeat the abilities of the pump and can seriously undermine performance, even harm the engine. Not that I am telling anyone who doesn't know that. :USA:

.

 

[Bradz]

Not the pump I would use either. I use that pump on my 725's with -10 lines. I use Magnafuel Prostar 500 pumps with -12 lines on my 1400's. There is a press release on OSO stating they wanted to keep it simple and use a wet sump oiling. I am not sure I agree with that either. Hot whipped up oil and small fuel delivery may work on the dyno. Hopefully they run a long time in the boat, but I got a bad feeling.
Does it also look like the fuel return line is going into the cooler and not to the fuel tank? I have always run the return lines back to the tank even on small engines to cycle the whole tank and keep it cooler.

 

[Coolerman]

magnafuel prostar 500 is the way to go!

 

[skaterdave]

Not the pump I would use either. I use that pump on my 725's with -10 lines. I use Magnafuel Prostar 500 pumps with -12 lines on my 1400's. There is a press release on OSO stating they wanted to keep it simple and use a wet sump oiling. I am not sure I agree with that either. Hot whipped up oil and small fuel delivery may work on the dyno. Hopefully they run a long time in the boat, but I got a bad feeling.
Does it also look like the fuel return line is going into the cooler and not to the fuel tank? I have always run the return lines back to the tank even on small engines to cycle the whole tank and keep it cooler.

if you read aeromotives website they have pumps that look like the one used that should easily cover the fuel volume needed. as for the drysump setup, there's a Press Release on OSO explaining the reason behind the wetsump, which to me makes alot of sense for pleasure boat applications. it looks like a very large sumped pan and with a high volume oil pump there should be no problems.

know i don't see how you can compare a Sterling race engine that's going to see 7000 plus rpm in a boat thats going to see alot of G-forces in a race application to a pleasure motor. whats the difference in a Merc 525 compared to a Young Perfomance 1200/1400 engine (crank rotation speed)? the crank probably wont see much over 5500 rpm and they both probably have hydraulic valve train which cant handle much over the 6k rpm. yea the dry sump helps in certain aspects but i just dont see the mandatory need since the HP rating doesn't have any effect on the windage of the crank.

 

[YoungPerformance]

I see your point Skaterdave. I'll tell you the biggest reason that I use a dry sump oil system on my 1200/1400. That engine is a hyd. roller, but I do turn it harder than my smaller stuff. I will turn that engine to 6500 rpm. That increased windage is one reason. The second reason is that I use valve spring oilers. I am concerned that a wet sump pump will not keep up with the demands. Another reason is that I can hold a bunch more oil. The dry sump tanks I use are 6 gallons total and hold 5 gallons of oil. I ran a few with 16 quart oil pans and it became to hard to control all of that oil when it started sloushing around. The rear main and timing cover seals are not meant to be inundated with oil. If they are, they will leak....and nothing bugs me more than an oil leak. Those are the biggest reasons. However, there is one other......people just expect it on an engine at that level. They may not know what it is or what it does, but they want it and expect it to be there.
Eddie

 

[runninhotracing]

You actually can support it with a 10 an and a bunch of pressure. Two problems though: it looks to have a Mefi ecm judging from the plugs and such. A mefi will only support high impedence injectors and the 5.0/8.3 Whipple only has room for 10 injectors.(the quadrotors can accept 12 injectors) The largest high impedence injector is 65 lb. There has been talk of a 75 or 80, but I haven't seen it yet. (10) 65 lb injectors will only support about 1500 hp, with a ton of pressure. That leads to problem 2. I don't think that Aeromotive fuel pump has the capacity to run the pressure and volume needed to support 1600 hp.
Not trying to start anything, just answering a question and trying to understand. Maybe he knows something that I don't
Regardless, they are very nice looking.
Eddie

ditto BIG Daddy :cheers2:

 

[Chris]

Thanks,

I have rigged only my own boats and engines and have used several different manufacturer's pumps. One thing they all have in common is the advice that undersized lines defeat the abilities of the pump and can seriously undermine performance, even harm the engine. Not that I am telling anyone who doesn't know that. :USA:

.

Just saw this on a friend's boat last year. It was plumbed in all AN (37 degree JIC flare) lines. The problem was that the line from the pump to the fuel log was 5,000PSI hydraulic line. It was about an inch OD, but the orifice through the swaged-on fitting was less than 1/4". Not all lines are the same- even though they fit together. And you can't flow anymore than your smallest restriction.

 

[skaterdave]

However, there is one other......people just expect it on an engine at that level. They may not know what it is or what it does, but they want it and expect it to be there.
Eddie

i think your right in away as far as people expect it but here's what Potter said:

"I can’t tell you how many times I have heard a customer tell me, the oil pump belt just came off. Our philosophy is to keep things as simple as possible. The fewer parts needed the less chance one of them can fail. This is why all of our poker run engines are wet sump oiled. We design all of our own oil pans and now have our own custom billet oil pump."

honestly most guys that are running these types of motors, probably DON'T spend an hour or so going over every part of the motor so i see his point of view.

agian, the extra work for the spring oilers, is in my opinion, questionable at the rpms these pleasure motors spin. its kinda like the drysump people think it what racers use, so it must be better ??? yea they help but their meant to cool the valve springs by spraying oil on them. if your running around 180 degree oil temp (most guys aren't even this hot) your motor is not at the point where it needs to worry about valve springs creating heat and having to run oilers. as far as turning a hydraulic lifter over 6000 your pushing it, atleast in my book. and if there is any kinda of oil pressure problems the hydraulic lifter are going to notice it right away, since they need oil pressure to function properly, compared to a solid roller.

Eddie i'm sure your understand all this, but i think alot of people could educate themselves to better learn how the engines are to be run and maintenanced.

 

[BraceYourself]

I see your point Skaterdave. I'll tell you the biggest reason that I use a dry sump oil system on my 1200/1400. That engine is a hyd. roller, but I do turn it harder than my smaller stuff. I will turn that engine to 6500 rpm. That increased windage is one reason. The second reason is that I use valve spring oilers. I am concerned that a wet sump pump will not keep up with the demands. Another reason is that I can hold a bunch more oil. The dry sump tanks I use are 6 gallons total and hold 5 gallons of oil. I ran a few with 16 quart oil pans and it became to hard to control all of that oil when it started sloushing around. The rear main and timing cover seals are not meant to be inundated with oil. If they are, they will leak....and nothing bugs me more than an oil leak. Those are the biggest reasons. However, there is one other......people just expect it on an engine at that level. They may not know what it is or what it does, but they want it and expect it to be there.
Eddie

Makes sense to me.

 

[Tom A.]

Straight from Ron Potter:
"Potter Performance Engines Inc. of Bradenton Florida has just completed there new 1300/1500 HP Wet Sump Engine. The vast majority of high horse power marine engines are typically dry sump oiled. This type of oiling system is primarily used to gain every bit of horse power possible. Our years of experience in the high performance marine industry has taught us many things, including, if it can break it probably will.

I can’t tell you how many times I have heard a customer tell me, the oil pump belt just came off. Our philosophy is to keep things as simple as possible. The fewer parts needed the less chance one of them can fail. This is why all of our poker run engines are wet sump oiled. We design all of our own oil pans and now have our own custom billet oil pump. When Bob Christie of Typhoon service center asked me if we could build him a wet sump1300 horse power engine for his 44 MTI Speed Racer I said no problem. Bob was told by other engine builders this was impossible. So the challenge was on. We sat down and put together a plan, utilizing concepts and ideas that I had been thinking about for some time. Well, the engines were done and all that was left was Dyno testing. I contacted my old friends at Nor-tech to see if we could test these at there facility so there would be no question about the power numbers. After three days of mapping it was time to make a pull. The engines produced 1312 HP and 1125 lb ft of torque at 6200 RPM on pump gas. With a pulley change and race gas, these engines should produce around 1500 HP. We are always working on new ideas for the future and have to thank our many loyal customers for there support."

 

[runninhotracing]

I know additional parts are being custom fabricated due to the headers being so close. Notice a section where the blue masking tape is on the side of the charger and there is a rag inside the what appears to be a fitting. From what I can see, the fuel regulator is on the rear of the engine just above the WIX filter...

Sharkey nice pics ,thanks for sharing what boost,heads & hydraulic or solid cams ?:cheers2:

 

[Raylar]

It is what it has to be

I guess my take is these guys have a lot of expierence with these big power supercharged engines and if it works and stays togther without problems, then there is no arguing with that. Time in the boat running in all condtions will prove it up or not and with their investment in dollars, I don't think they are going to take many un-neccesary risks!

SkaterDave:

Just one thought here. Any performance race or pleasure craft performance engine that is producing 1300-1500HP has got to be pretty much the same engine. The engine does not know what boat its in and its got to have components and a build and spec. that will allow it to produce that kind of power and stay in one piece! A lot of performance boaters obviously sometimes have no clue how specific these engines and compnents have to be to produce these type of power levels for any kind of performance boating.

Best Regards,
Ray @ Raylar

 

[YoungPerformance]

honestly most guys that are running these types of motors, probably DON'T spend an hour or so going over every part of the motor so i see his point of view.


agian, the extra work for the spring oilers, is in my opinion, questionable at the rpms these pleasure motors spin. its kinda like the drysump people think it what racers use, so it must be better ??? yea they help but their meant to cool the valve springs by spraying oil on them. if your running around 180 degree oil temp (most guys aren't even this hot) your motor is not at the point where it needs to worry about valve springs creating heat and having to run oilers. as far as turning a hydraulic lifter over 6000 your pushing it, atleast in my book. and if there is any kinda of oil pressure problems the hydraulic lifter are going to notice it right away, since they need oil pressure to function properly, compared to a solid roller.

That is absolutely correct. However, I have never had a belt come off, or even come loose. I use shouldered pulleys that really won't let the belt come off. I also have an alarm system tied into the ecm that will put the engine in limp mode if the oil pressure drops. It will also set off an audible alarm. It may still be to late if the belt comes off, so I don't really want to test it.:sifone:



6500 rpm is no problem for the lifters. They are good to over 7000 rpm. I also run a 210* oil thermostat, so the oil will hit 220*. I run the water ice cold, so I need some oil temp to stop condensation from forming in the oil. I want the oil at or near the boiling point of water. I am also trying to get these engines to go for 150 hrs., so I want all the help I can get for the valvetrain. It is the problem area, so it needs the most attention. I can't really say if the spring oilers help or not, but I know they don't hurt.
Bottom line is that there is more than one way to do it. A wet sump system can certainly work. My way works for me, but it sure isn't the only way to do it. I'm sure his way will work fine to.
Eddie

 

[skaterdave]

Young Perf., curious, who's hydaulic lifters are you using ?

 

[YoungPerformance]

pm sent

 

[skaterdave]

I can’t tell you how many times I have heard a customer tell me, the oil pump belt just came off. Our philosophy is to keep things as simple as possible. The fewer parts needed the less chance one of them can fail. This is why all of our poker run engines are wet sump oiled. We design all of our own oil pans and now have our own custom billet oil pump.

Just one thought here. Any performance race or pleasure craft performance engine that is producing 1300-1500HP has got to be pretty much the same engine. The engine does not know what boat its in and its got to have components and a build and spec. that will allow it to produce that kind of power and stay in one piece! A lot of performance boaters obviously sometimes have no clue how specific these engines and compnents have to be to produce these type of power levels for any kind of performance boating.

Best Regards,
Ray @ Raylar

agree, i think the thing here thats overlooked in rpm range. over 6k things start to take a beating and it rapidly gets worse. theres a big difference between a running a pleasure motor occasionaly at 6500 and a race engine at 7600.

i just find it odd that someone would be a 1200 hp motor and stick hydraulic lifter in it but then add jesel rockers and spring oilers?

 

[Geronimo36]

So they addressed the dry sump vs. wet sump, did they address the Chevy style head questions?

Again, not trying to bash just curious... Ron built a bunch of engines for my friends father who had and still has some very well known Nortech cats and the feedback I was given was excellent. Plus, when I visited Nortech several years ago I was really impressed with his shop.