Fiscal Conservative, Social Liberal

Why would we voluntarily offer another substance to the public via legal means that could cause the same amount of wrecks and deaths? Or more?
. :cheers2:

Cause all the pot smokers say it's "safer" with less side effects. yadda yadda yadda

No love for me, huh? :(

BTW... Do you really think that if prostitution was legal that hundreds (perhaps thousands) of women in your town would quit their current jobs start having sex for money? You must have a very low opinion of women. :rolleyes:

I hired a stripper once to do recruiting and after a few months she got tired of having to show up on-time in the morning and work harder than moving her hips she left and went back to stripping...

And when she origninally came to me she said she needed to "get out of it". Guess not...:bump:

You, obviously, don't have much first-hand experience with recreational drug use. :cool:

what makes you think legalizing ANY drug will cause an increase in use? The biggest change will be re-direction of the associated revenue stream and related taxes.

If it were legal I might consider smokin a couple dubbie's again... but since it's illegal and it was a "phase" in my adolescence, I've grown up and moved on! Just like the "phase" of going out to the bars on Thurs, Fri/Sat and partying till 4 am... :driving:

Nothing against pot smokin, I don't care what ya do. I just don't choose to do it anymore and a big part of the reason was it's illegal and just plain makes ya stupid! :kiss:
 
You, obviously, don't have much first-hand experience with recreational drug use. :cool:

And to use the same analogy that Clay makes re prostitution, what makes you think legalizing ANY drug will cause an increase in use? The biggest change will be re-direction of the associated revenue stream and related taxes.

"Honey, stop by the store and pick up a dime bag of heroin on your way home, I'm in an experimental mood tonight..."

You are correct Jay, I have never done an illegal drug in my life. Legalizing it would in fact increase use since you could pick it up at the corner store and not have to go searching for it or taking your life into your own hands by driving to the ghetto to get some. One of the biggest reasons I have never done an illegal drug is because they are just that, illegal. If it was legalized I might very well try it. No reason not to since it is no longer illegal.
 
You are correct Jay, I have never done an illegal drug in my life. Legalizing it would in fact increase use since you could pick it up at the corner store and not have to go searching for it or taking your life into your own hands by driving to the ghetto to get some.. One of the biggest reasons I have never done an illegal drug is because they are just that, illegal. If it was legalized I might very well try it. No reason not to since it is no longer illegal.

Ironically... there are those who would lose interest if it was mainstreamed.
 
Don't get all sensitive, I said "Well yeah", I was making a joke. And you are correct the pros thing is silly because only a few women would still do it and then we could TAX them :sifone: :USA:

Ha Ha! Talk about a true "sin tax"! :D
 
I recently heard John Waters say that one of the best things about being gay was the fact that he couldn't get drafted and didn't have to get married... And now everyone's gone and screwed that up.

As an aside, I struggle to see how the subjugation of our civil rights and liberties (at the hands of the Republican and Democratic parties) can be construed as "liberal". I don't see any liberty in restricting our freedoms.

In my book, whether a bag of sh*t is red or blue doesn't change the fact that it's a bag of sh*t.
 
Hard to have social liberalism without any fiscal liberals to actually pay for it, Clay.

Do you have a specific example of this?

Socially Liberal (to me) means freedom of choice. Fiscally Liberal means Wealth Redistribution.

I don't see how freedom of choice leads to redistribution of wealth. :(
 
As an aside, I struggle to see how the subjugation of our civil rights and liberties (at the hands of the Republican and Democratic parties) can be construed as "liberal". I don't see any liberty in restricting our freedoms.

I totally agree. Restricting freedom of choice is wrong! :mad:
 
Legalizing it would in fact increase use

You are welcome to your opinion. :cheers2:

Real-world experience has proven otherwise, Amsterdam is one example that comes to mind, and more recently, Mexico, which has legalized EVERYTHING in a last-ditch attempt to reign in the cartels that threaten the country's very existence.

Recent developments in this country appear to point toward legalization of pot on a national level, particularly after the gubment proclaimed recently that it would not prosecute for medical marijuana possession- basically opening the door. As more states realize the potential upside (tax revenue) this could possibly happen sooner than later. (I believe medical marijuana is currently legal in 14 states.)

It's about time.
 
Do you have a specific example of this?

Socially Liberal (to me) means freedom of choice. Fiscally Liberal means Wealth Redistribution.

I don't see how freedom of choice leads to redistribution of wealth. :(

I do, look at Euro countries that have cradle to grave welfare and also legalize drugs. So then you have HUGE unemployment numbers and thousands who are government supported addicts. Of course, along with that, there are HUGE tax rates on the producers to pay for it.
The only way it would be reasonable is to say, do what you wnat, but we ain't paying for it when you screw up, and we as a society are very bad at that, especially on the Dem side of the aisle. (ref. increased welfare payments for more illegitimate kids)
 
You are welcome to your opinion. :cheers2:

Real-world experience has proven otherwise, Amsterdam is one example that comes to mind, and more recently, Mexico, which has legalized EVERYTHING in a last-ditch attempt to reign in the cartels that threaten the country's very existence.

Recent developments in this country appear to point toward legalization of pot on a national level, particularly after the gubment proclaimed recently that it would not prosecute for medical marijuana possession- basically opening the door. As more states realize the potential upside (tax revenue) this could possibly happen sooner than later. (I believe medical marijuana is currently legal in 14 states.)

It's about time.

I've got a $100 bet with a friend who has a vested interest in seeing the legislation change (for fun lets say this person has really bad glaucoma)... I'm betting that we won't see recreational MJ use legalized (real legalized) in our lifetime.

There's too many people, even relatively reasonable people who've bought into the notion that there's no material difference between MJ and much harder drugs. There's a pervasive sense that drugs aren't just illegal they're Evil (capitalization intended). And no evil meaning bad for you, or instrumental in lowering productivity, but Evil the way Charlie Manson or beastaility is Evil. And frankly I don't see people (middle American majority) selling out their fundamental value system for tax revenue, en mass.

I would frankly be very happy to lose that hundred dollars. Not because I plan on smoking a fatty in front of the federal building, but because the war on drugs strikes me as a massive hypocrisy and a huge, irresponsible waste of time and resources.

Smoke 'em if ya got 'em, boys! :sifone:
 
....

Smoke 'em if ya got 'em, boys! :sifone:

:sifone: :sifone:

There is a good documentary, I think it's called Drug Wars, on the pay channels (HBO, Showtime, etc) from time to time that goes into the 'war on drugs' and looks at both sides of it. Very interesting and good to watch, I usually end up watching at least part of it whenever I see its on.
 
I've got a $100 bet with a friend who has a vested interest in seeing the legislation change (for fun lets say this person has really bad glaucoma)... I'm betting that we won't see recreational MJ use legalized (real legalized) in our lifetime.

You may have to give up that benjamin if you aren't too caught up in semantics. (i.e. - definition of 'legalized')

A couple of recent anecdotes (totally from memory, so details are blurry)- there are somewhere in the neighborhood of 5000 medical marijuana dispensaries in this country already, many turning huge profits. All that is required to get a card is a simple doctor's appointment wherein you need only claim a 'problem' such as insomnia to qualify. Within the last couple of months an arrest for thirty pounds was thrown out because the arrestee was proven to have been making a legitimate delivery to a dispensary.

Smoke 'em if you got 'em, indeed. :sifone:
 
You may have to give up that benjamin if you aren't too caught up in semantics. (i.e. - definition of 'legalized')

A couple of recent anecdotes (totally from memory, so details are blurry)- there are somewhere in the neighborhood of 5000 medical marijuana dispensaries in this country already, many turning huge profits. All that is required to get a card is a simple doctor's appointment wherein you need only claim a 'problem' such as insomnia to qualify. Within the last couple of months an arrest for thirty pounds was thrown out because the arrestee was proven to have been making a legitimate delivery to a dispensary.

Smoke 'em if you got 'em, indeed. :sifone:

But still illegal right? I mean relaxed prosecution doesn't mean something's legal. So it's not so much semantics. All it would take is the administration to change it's mind and the FBI would be kicking down doors this afternoon.
 
But still illegal right? I mean relaxed prosecution doesn't mean something's legal. So it's not so much semantics. All it would take is the administration to change it's mind and the FBI would be kicking down doors this afternoon.

True. But I think you may be giving too much credence to the 'public opinion doesn't favor it' argument. Recent polls indicate fairly major shifts in the way people view it's use. At some point the tide will become irreversible. Especially once states and city municipalities start figuring in that considerable pile of revenue as they plan their annual budgets.
 
I hear ya man... I don't put a lot of faith in polls because the statistical sample is miniscule compared to the population, but I agree that it will get pushed (if and when it gets pushed) by the states digging in to hold onto their much needed revenue.

On the flip side, there was a great deal of momentum in the sixties towards a much more progressive society, and that died a painful death when public opinion decided that it had gone far enough...
 
i agree with clay on a lot of this. i have always seen the republicans as the lesser of two evils, due to the fact that 1. they dont want to take what ive earned and give it to some loser 2.they dont want to mess with the constitution 3.arent as likely to try to run my life as the dems 4. somewhat understand that business in the most part is good for our country and economy. I have always seen the dems as a bunch of rich people( and most of them are) that pander to the do nots and are basically do as i say and not as i do, smarter than thou people. They dont give any of their own money to the poor, but want the rest of us to, want the rest of us to have goverment health care that they wont have and specifically dont want. We need something more towards the middle, instead of the far radical left and right we have now, and believe me im more right than left. I also dont like how the repubs pander to the religious right. Now dont jump me for that, cause i have no problem with religion, i think it is a good thing, has a lot of great values, as long as it doesnt compell you to harm or kill others, and most of that is corruption of the true meaning of most religions. I just think that the founding fathers had it right in the strict seperation of church and state, because when every time religion takes hold in government, aka theocracy, there is huge problems with opression and such, just look at the Arabian theocracies, if you dont believe exactly as they do you are screwed. Nothing has caused more wars and hate than religion, it does not belong in government. On the flip side i see no problem with the pledge, nativity scenes in public, a menorah at the courthouse, whatever. By far my biggest problem these days is the excuses made for everything and everyone. If everyone would just have a bit of personal responsibility we would be much better off. As far as the drug thing it is a huge waste of resources, all the people in jail we are paying for and the time and money spent fighting it. Legalize everything but the really hard stuff, tax it, if you overuse and ruin your health its your prob, if you sell it to kids you do hard time, if you commit crimes to buy it or because of it you do hard time. Im not a drug user, i experimented when i was younger but i know people that do and seem to get along. And you can get just about anything without much trouble even with the laws. You take the money out of drugs, maybe more inner city kids would finish school and get real jobs, no more easy money and the crime that goes with it. i think if we concentrated on kids, better education, help with food if needed and health care if needed, you would have more responsible adults. once you turn 21 you are on your own to sink or swim, you are properly equipped to survive and do well, if you chose not to its on you, not on the rest of us. kids cant help who their parents are. i could go on all day but enough for now
 
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