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Dragunov sniper rifle
- Thread starter stecz20
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JupiterSunsation
New member
It is too big for you to shoot in your basement..........back to the Red Ryder for you!
Piece of $hit.
Dragunov is just a nickname, like Kalashnikov- after the designer Evgeny Dragunov. They're actually an SVD- Snayperskaya Vintovka Dragunova
The SVD is based on the AK which is a wonderfully reliable but absolutely inaccurate design. The reason the AK is highly regarded is that they function in any and all conditions with little or no maintenance or lubrication. That's because they're built with very broad design tolerances. They're about one step above a zip gun in sophistication. The SVD addressed a number of those issues, but is handicapped by the basic design.
At 3 to 400 yards, an out of the box M4 (modern M16) is going to out-shoot it. At 800 yards, the current-US-issue M40 rifle is going to dramatically outclass it.
Dragunov is just a nickname, like Kalashnikov- after the designer Evgeny Dragunov. They're actually an SVD- Snayperskaya Vintovka Dragunova
The SVD is based on the AK which is a wonderfully reliable but absolutely inaccurate design. The reason the AK is highly regarded is that they function in any and all conditions with little or no maintenance or lubrication. That's because they're built with very broad design tolerances. They're about one step above a zip gun in sophistication. The SVD addressed a number of those issues, but is handicapped by the basic design.
At 3 to 400 yards, an out of the box M4 (modern M16) is going to out-shoot it. At 800 yards, the current-US-issue M40 rifle is going to dramatically outclass it.
Tony
Founding Member
Are you looking for a true Dragunov, or the Romanian copy that is often sold as a Dragunov, the PSL, or Romak 3.
The first pic is the PSL, the seccond is the true Dragunov. While they both look cool, neither one can hardly be called a sniper rifle, more of a designated marksmans gun. The true Drags, Tigrs, and NDMs are relatively hard to find and very pricey. The Romanians can be had for around the $900 range, I have two of them and let me say for the $ your going to spend, you can buy or build a much more accurate rifle. If you really want one, I have a parts kit that I'm willing to sell.
The first pic is the PSL, the seccond is the true Dragunov. While they both look cool, neither one can hardly be called a sniper rifle, more of a designated marksmans gun. The true Drags, Tigrs, and NDMs are relatively hard to find and very pricey. The Romanians can be had for around the $900 range, I have two of them and let me say for the $ your going to spend, you can buy or build a much more accurate rifle. If you really want one, I have a parts kit that I'm willing to sell.
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Tony
Founding Member
A lot of the sniper guys call this a minute of torso gun. The biggest 2 reasons for their lack of accuracy is 1, the wrong flavor of ammo, most 54R ammo has much too heavy of a bullet for the rifling to stabilize 148gn. works the best in theese. Seccondly the lower handguards are often pressing against the barrel and the thin barrels heat up in a hurry. Most people can cut their groups at least in half by modding the lower handguard and shooting the proper ammo. Another downfall of theese guns is the quick detach scope mounting rail, the reccoil over time will always shake them loose.
stecz20
PROUD
interesting... starting in the summer i want to start building the ultimate snipers rifle. i was looking at the laws in jersey last night and a lot of things are going against this one, and if you guys are saying its not worth building, ill go with you guys.. what would you guys suggest???? this summer i want to pick up a few rifles before i can no longer....
Tony
Founding Member
.50's are absolutly pointless to own unless you have a place to shoot one, many ranges dont allow them. Even shooting one on your own property is a huge liability. Even out here in the sticks where I live someone will eventually call the cops reporting an explosion or bomb when the hear the earth shattering kaboom (in my best Marvin the Martian voice). There is absolutly nothing cheap about owning one, the rifle is pricey, the glass is pricey, the ammo is pricey, and the reloading equipment and supplies cost a small fortune. Theres plenty of other calibers to have fun with at 300yds. and less that are far more accurate than a BMG. Shooting a thousand yard plus gun at a hundred yards is about as rewarding as pounding ants with a mallet.
Definitely unique.
The ultimate sniper rifle? First off, you're going to need about $7,500 to $10,000+. $3000+ of that is the scope. Then there's caliber. The standby it the 7.62 NATO (308 Winchester) and the long-range counterpart, the 300 Win Mag. But for the most part, people these days are stepping up to the 338 Lapua Magnum. The Lapua is an excellent choice, but expensive to shoot. You can get off-the-shelf 338's, but they're not going to shoot anywhere close to a custom rifle. You can always consider a rifle chambered in 50 BMG but that's a bit of overkill. There are also some interesting larger bore calibers- I'm working on a rifle right now in 10.3 Snipe-Tac-
A cut down 50 BMG case- at least the original caliber was. Viers has rebased it on the 408 Chey-Tac cartridge which took about 450fps out of velocity- but a more manageable caliber. The Chey-Tac is also a good caliber but has a somewhat unrealized potential.
Me- I'd go with the Lapua.
Keep in mind, proficiency at long-range marksmanship is alot like playing the piano. With years of practice, you can get pretty good at it. But ultimately a person's own natural ability will become the ceiling. And you need to have a very hands-on understanding of the weapon, ammunition and such to even get to first base. Loading your own ammo is an absolute requirement- you're wasting your time if you don't. Then it takes many, many sessions and loads of gathering of empirical data to determine what loads your rifle shoots best. But the big barrier is the actual shooting. Sniping is somewhat unlike other forms of shooting. Understanding your projectile's trajectory over its flight path is task 1. Bullets don't fly in straight lines. From the millisecond they leave the barrel, they're falling towards the ground at the exact same speed as if you held it between two fingers and let go. If you're shooting a 2800 fps 7.62 projectile 800 meters, at 100 meters the projectile's aim point is going to be about 7 feet high. Now most rifles in that caliber are going to be zeroed at 400 meters. Let's say your target is at 648 meters- you have to be able to determine that range without a rangefinder and then you have to calculate your bullet drop at that range- this is all done with what's known as a mil-dot reticle scope. It has a series of gradiations on what you might think of as crosshairs. These allow the shooter to locate the aimpoint exactly- more on mil-dot.. http://www.mil-dot.com/ Mil is short for milliradian, a metric measurement for fractional angles. Keep in mind, this is the simple stuff. Not all shoting is in a straight line. If you're 200 feet up in a tower, all bets are off- now you bring in azimuth factors that will make smoke come out of your ears. And then there are envionmental factors- wind and thermals. Just because the wind is blowing where you are, the target at 1700 meters is probably seeing something different. And if the flightpath crosses a pond or an asphalt parking lot, those thermals will move the bullet too. Experience coupled with reading environmental signs makes you a much better shooter. Oh, yeah- no calculators. You have to learn to do this stuff in your head. You can use charts, but if you're competing, you're going to get smoked by a guy that can do it in his head- there are time-on-shot elements to the scoring.
As far as the legal stuff, they're going to want to go after high-cap magazines, bayonet lugs, etc. California outright banned detachable magazines but I don't see that being in Barry's version of the AWB. Mostly imported stuff. All of it silly- since the market is filled with millions of these weapons already. All he'll do is make some guy's stuff more valuable- for a little while.
The ultimate sniper rifle? First off, you're going to need about $7,500 to $10,000+. $3000+ of that is the scope. Then there's caliber. The standby it the 7.62 NATO (308 Winchester) and the long-range counterpart, the 300 Win Mag. But for the most part, people these days are stepping up to the 338 Lapua Magnum. The Lapua is an excellent choice, but expensive to shoot. You can get off-the-shelf 338's, but they're not going to shoot anywhere close to a custom rifle. You can always consider a rifle chambered in 50 BMG but that's a bit of overkill. There are also some interesting larger bore calibers- I'm working on a rifle right now in 10.3 Snipe-Tac-
A cut down 50 BMG case- at least the original caliber was. Viers has rebased it on the 408 Chey-Tac cartridge which took about 450fps out of velocity- but a more manageable caliber. The Chey-Tac is also a good caliber but has a somewhat unrealized potential.
Me- I'd go with the Lapua.
Keep in mind, proficiency at long-range marksmanship is alot like playing the piano. With years of practice, you can get pretty good at it. But ultimately a person's own natural ability will become the ceiling. And you need to have a very hands-on understanding of the weapon, ammunition and such to even get to first base. Loading your own ammo is an absolute requirement- you're wasting your time if you don't. Then it takes many, many sessions and loads of gathering of empirical data to determine what loads your rifle shoots best. But the big barrier is the actual shooting. Sniping is somewhat unlike other forms of shooting. Understanding your projectile's trajectory over its flight path is task 1. Bullets don't fly in straight lines. From the millisecond they leave the barrel, they're falling towards the ground at the exact same speed as if you held it between two fingers and let go. If you're shooting a 2800 fps 7.62 projectile 800 meters, at 100 meters the projectile's aim point is going to be about 7 feet high. Now most rifles in that caliber are going to be zeroed at 400 meters. Let's say your target is at 648 meters- you have to be able to determine that range without a rangefinder and then you have to calculate your bullet drop at that range- this is all done with what's known as a mil-dot reticle scope. It has a series of gradiations on what you might think of as crosshairs. These allow the shooter to locate the aimpoint exactly- more on mil-dot.. http://www.mil-dot.com/ Mil is short for milliradian, a metric measurement for fractional angles. Keep in mind, this is the simple stuff. Not all shoting is in a straight line. If you're 200 feet up in a tower, all bets are off- now you bring in azimuth factors that will make smoke come out of your ears. And then there are envionmental factors- wind and thermals. Just because the wind is blowing where you are, the target at 1700 meters is probably seeing something different. And if the flightpath crosses a pond or an asphalt parking lot, those thermals will move the bullet too. Experience coupled with reading environmental signs makes you a much better shooter. Oh, yeah- no calculators. You have to learn to do this stuff in your head. You can use charts, but if you're competing, you're going to get smoked by a guy that can do it in his head- there are time-on-shot elements to the scoring.
As far as the legal stuff, they're going to want to go after high-cap magazines, bayonet lugs, etc. California outright banned detachable magazines but I don't see that being in Barry's version of the AWB. Mostly imported stuff. All of it silly- since the market is filled with millions of these weapons already. All he'll do is make some guy's stuff more valuable- for a little while.
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Tony
Founding Member
The LR is a great out of the box shooter for someone who is interested in a turn key rifle and has no plans of building a custom rifle, or handloading. It can be tweaked and tuned to shoot even better if need be. I may just be selling my LR, not sure yet, Im trying to justify having two of them. Sunkin's SBR idea may win out. 
The AR10 with a 10.5" barrel is a very cool little flamethrower. It reports like a 50 but recoils about like a 223.
Stecz is in the People's Republic of New Jersey, where they care little about the Constitution. They are highly concerned about people's safety though and are doing everything in their power to rid their streats of the insidious plague of flash hiders and bayonet lugs. We all know how lethal a flash hider can be when it ends up in the wrong hands.
Stecz is in the People's Republic of New Jersey, where they care little about the Constitution. They are highly concerned about people's safety though and are doing everything in their power to rid their streats of the insidious plague of flash hiders and bayonet lugs. We all know how lethal a flash hider can be when it ends up in the wrong hands.
Wrinkleface
Founding Member
Tony
Founding Member
The M1 is a very respectable gun no matter how its setup, old school style that never gets old.
Davidmnc
Contributor
Steczzy w/ a gun scares the CHIT outa George!!!
:iagree::iagree::iagree:
Did he say any thing about coming to North Carolina with it? :ack2:
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