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Diplomacy works!

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Neoconservatism is a political philosophy that emerged in the United States of America, and which supports using American economic and military power to bring liberalism, democracy, and human rights to other countries.[1][2][3] In economics, unlike traditional conservatives, neoconservatives are generally comfortable with a minimally-bureaucratic welfare state; and, while generally supportive of free markets, they are willing to interfere for overriding social purposes.[4]

The term neoconservative was used at one time as a criticism against proponents of American modern liberalism who had "moved to the right".[5][6] Michael Harrington, a democratic socialist, coined the current sense of the term neoconservative in a 1973 Dissent magazine article concerning welfare policy.[7] According to E. J. Dionne, the nascent neoconservatives were driven by "the notion that liberalism" had failed and "no longer knew what it was talking about."[8] The term "neoconservative" was the subject of increased media coverage during the presidency of George W. Bush.[9][10] with particular focus on a perceived neoconservative influence on American foreign policy, as part of the Bush Doctrine.[11]

Or, roughly put, it's the 'shoot first, ask questions later', 'diplomacy and talking is for the weak' faction of the Conservative right.
 
Ted said:
I think it a very cool thing he did. BUT, they sat around a table with "negotiators" for 1.5 hours and had in depth discussions. And one of the guys at the table was the vice something or other that has been involved in all of the nuke talks. So, until we know what concessions were made at that table we will not know what it "cost" us. :D
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There were no concessions. They consider it a huge win just to have a former US President visit their country.

If you could remember history correctly, you would know that his administration had been negotiating successfully with the North Koreans re their nuclear aspirations, and had a deal in place that would have eventually dismantled their weapons development.

Enter a retarded little cowboy from Texas bent of saving the world from the 'axis of evil' and all that went to hell in a handbasket.

Hopefully this is the first step of a new and revitalized dialog with these whackos.
 
jayboat said:
There were no concessions. They consider it a huge win just to have a former US President visit their country.

If you could remember history correctly, you would know that his administration had been negotiating successfully with the North Koreans re their nuclear aspirations, and had a deal in place that would have eventually dismantled their weapons development.

Enter a retarded little cowboy from Texas bent of saving the world from the 'axis of evil' and all that went to hell in a handbasket.

Hopefully this is the first step of a new and revitalized dialog with these whackos.
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Great, it's much better that a phillanderer and a psyco killer with absolutely no regard for life get some face time on tv.

By the way Jay, you may want to learn to spell before you hurl insults, Forrest.
 
Yes, yes...dialog is what we need with these "whackos." We shall TALK and gently make them see the error of their ways.

I can see it now:

"Mr. Kim, we here in the United States think it just not right that you have starved 3 million or so or your minions to death. Also, the way you keep launching missles, testing rockets and continuing your nuclear weapons development program...well...would you mind stopping that? We'd TOTALLY appreciate that...in fact...we'd think you were a righteous dude. You wanna be cool like that, right?"

Yeah. That'll work FOR SURE.

Jay - you can say it was Bush's fault all you want...fact is...the North Korean "negotiations" with Clinton ended up in an "agreement" that was promptly laughed out of the room as soon as it was over. Do you ENJOY seeing this country with egg on its face?

Before you get all huffy and name-cally, I'm no neo-con. I'm pretty old-school with my beliefs...like Washington and Jefferson old-school. We need to concentrate on that which is wrong in our own country. We need to arm ourselves accordingly. We need to put America first...sorry oppressed peoples in other countries...we tried...and the rest of the world laughed when we cut our own heart out for all to see.

Clinton has negotiated with the enemy with no "official" capacity...what a great guy. For chrise sakes...can you NOT SEE? The man is a POLITICIAN to the BONE...there is NOTHING genuine about him. He's been getting blowjobs from liberal whiners since day one....NEVER held an actual JOB in his life...oh...wait...was I talking about Clinton or Obama?

No huge fan of Bush or any of the crusty, outdated, and out-of-touch Republicans here, but to those that are snowed by the Dems and actually BELIEVE in some of this crap that's being showered upon our country...I thought you were smarter than that.

Sorry...rant over.
 
cuda said:
Great, it's much better that a philanderer and a psycho killer with absolutely no regard for life get some face time on TV.

By the way Jay, you may want to learn to spell before you hurl insults, Forrest.
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You never stop, do you. These discussions are not personal. But a little intellectual fortitude goes a long way when dealing with well-informed people. But the forest, forrest gaff is very telling. I like the movie, it's one of my favorites. But I never thought he was calling you Forrest Gump. But you did kind of pull a Forrest Gump moment right there.

Please take a few moments in the future and before you take offense and let the personal attacks fly, call up someone who has heard the common phrase "step away from the tree to see the forest." Loosely translated, it means people tend to just focus on what is right in front of them and lose perspective on the bigger picture.

Many neo-cons unilaterally believe that every geo-political situation is best solved by shooting first. Anything else is a sign of weakness. Domestically, this is a notable trait of gang warfare where the assumption is everyone is plotting to attack, so you must stand ready at all times. If a wrong move is made, you shoot fast to stay alive.

So when someone says, "forest, meet tress", they are pointing out someone who may have just been enlightened that there is not only a name and psychosis for in the blind belief the neo-cons share, but that there are lots of people who haven't realized the dangerous path they've lead their followers down. So more and more followers are waking up to the bigger picture.

Or maybe I'm an just extraordinarily high this morning and completely full of sh!t.

You decide.

PS: My spell check found three errors in your brief post if you include not capitalizing TV.

Of course, we all know where gang members rank in the social status of our society.
 
LaughingCat said:
You never stop, do you. These discussions are not personal. But a little intellectual fortitude goes a long way when dealing with well-informed people. But the forest, forrest gaff is very telling. I like the movie, it's one of my favorites. But I never thought he was calling you Forrest Gump. But you did kind of pull a Forrest Gump moment right there.

Please take a few moments in the future and before you take offense and let the personal attacks fly, call up someone who has heard the common phrase "step away from the tree to see the forest." Loosely translated, it means people tend to just focus on what is right in front of them and lose perspective on the bigger picture.

Many neo-cons unilaterally believe that every geo-political situation is best solved by shooting first. Anything else is a sign of weakness. Domestically, this is a notable trait of gang warfare where the assumption is everyone is plotting to attack, so you must stand ready at all times. If a wrong move is made, you shoot fast to stay alive.

So when someone says, "forest, meet tress", they are pointing out someone who may have just been enlightened that there is not only a name and psychosis for in the blind belief the neo-cons share, but that there are lots of people who haven't realized the dangerous path they've lead their followers down. So more and more followers are waking up to the bigger picture.

Or maybe I'm an just extraordinarily high this morning and completely full of sh!t.

You decide.

PS: My spell check found three errors in your brief post if you include not capitalizing TV.

Of course, we all know where gang members rank in the social status of our society.
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What is a tress?? :D :D

Also, what does this mean; "Or maybe I'm an just extraordinarily high this morning and completely full of sh!t." :sifone::sifone::26::26:
 
redhotsommer said:
I can see it now:

"Mr. Kim, we here in the United States think it just not right that you have starved 3 million or so or your minions to death.
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Here's where you lost me. It's a fair assumption you are loyal republican, hell bent on seeing welfare, Medicare and social security dismantled because it takes money from you and gives to the poor who should've just done for themselves. So why are you upset that Lil' Kim let 3 million people starve? Wouldn't you think that the wealthy people in NK are ecstatic they didn't have to pay for everyone's food? Oh wait, you will comment that he stifled the media and the 'truth' cannot get out. But isn't that what Republicans (not all of them, just the nutty ones) have systematically been doing to our media for years?

So if I use common logic, it just reasoned why the Republican party should be offering Lil' Kim an honorary membership to their party. Heck, maybe you can send over some of the cute little band-aides with purple hearts on them for his pain and suffering during the recent stroke.
 
Seriously, we need to have a debate the doesn't get derailed by hypocracy.I don't know why we need to pay insurgents to not fight in Iraq, but we cannot dare think to give some money to our own citizens in the US. The Republican implosion is only beginning and will gain speed with an enormous crash if people don't wake up soon and realize they are being run into the ground. Otherwise, we will be stuck with Democrats in permanent power not bnecause they are good, but because no one in there to oppose them.

Someone please put the nut-bag lunatic Right back in the closet and bring out the statesmen. This birth certificate, tea-bagging nonsense is not brining the right attention.

Rant over.
 
jayboat said:
There were no concessions. They consider it a huge win just to have a former US President visit their country.

If you could remember history correctly, you would know that his administration had been negotiating successfully with the North Koreans re their nuclear aspirations, and had a deal in place that would have eventually dismantled their weapons development.

Enter a retarded little cowboy from Texas bent of saving the world from the 'axis of evil' and all that went to hell in a handbasket.

Hopefully this is the first step of a new and revitalized dialog with these whackos.
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Yes, but you are forgetting this little snippet Jay, from the NY Times, the famed neocon rag:

The test was widely condemned, but brought new movement to the six-party talks (involving North Korea, the United States, China, South Korea, Japan and Russia) that had failed to prevent the blast. In February 2007, after Washington agreed to roll back sanctions against banks dealing with Pyongyang, North Korea agreed to a process that would lead to the dismantling of its nuclear weapons program. The package called for fuel oil to be provided to North Korea, and for a series of steps that would allow for verification that it was in fact ending the program.

But in December 2008 North Korea refused to agree to verification measures being sought by the Bush administration and the process collapsed. It was widely believed among diplomats that Pyongyang had decided to see if it could obtain better terms from the incoming Obama administration


Hmmmmm, what happened in Nov 2008 that might have made Lil Kim decide to reneg on the deal????? Let me think......


Diplomacy only works when there is the possibility of a little a$$ kicking going on if it doesn't. No need to worry about THAT with President Kumbaya in charge, well unless you are like a Christian or Jew or something evil like that....
 
LaughingCat said:
Seriously, we need to have a debate the doesn't get derailed by hypocracy.I don't know why we need to pay insurgents to not fight in Iraq, but we cannot dare think to give some money to our own citizens in the US. The Republican implosion is only beginning and will gain speed with an enormous crash if people don't wake up soon and realize they are being run into the ground. Otherwise, we will be stuck with Democrats in permanent power not bnecause they are good, but because no one in there to oppose them.

Someone please put the nut-bag lunatic Right back in the closet and bring out the statesmen. This birth certificate, tea-bagging nonsense is not brining the right attention.

Rant over.
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Really??? You think the Republicans have problems ? I'm sure if all you listen to is CNN and MSNBC you would have no idea that 70 plus percent of Americans are very concerned about the way our one party rule is taking this country. The silly ex-hippies and President Organizer are hell bent on taking us to a socialist utopia we can't pay for at a time when econimic recovery is the ONLY thing people care about. And if you only listen to the left wing media I'm sure you do have the impression that the birthers and tea baggers are the only thing left on the Right. The media has basically given up on any concept of unbiased reporting and have become simply mouthpieces for the DNC. And it still wont save the Dems, they are their own worst enemy, and the country's.
 
Ted said:
No need to worry about THAT with President Kumbaya in charge, well unless you are like a Christian or Jew or something evil like that....
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or a cop doing his job and the race card is thrown out. and once again proved wrong, the only racists there were the professor and the president..:sifone:
 
I am not sure what the big issue is with NK. They are not so much our problem as their are for their neighbors. Much of the bickering abou this sounds like snobbish senior cheerleaders making snide attacks on the freshmen trying out for the squad. Who cares if NK gets a seat at the table. This is all BS distraction away from our own problems.

I'm VERY HAPPY that health insurance reform is on the table. Unless you sell HI policies or are an executive at a HI company, you should want your prices to be lower. None of the talk is about the government changing actual health care. They aren't going to tell your doctors what to do any more than the HI companies do already. In fact, fi they push the doctors around just as much as the Hi companies do, we will be no worse off, but we will have paid less to do it. I don't mind someone making a good profit, but not a great profit AT MY EXPENSE.

Hi-jack over. . . but really, who cares if NK gets a seat at the table. It's a friggin high-chair with a rattle. (and maybe some Benadryl in the bottle to put them to sleep.)
 
Ted said:
Really??? You think the Republicans have problems ? I'm sure if all you listen to is CNN and MSNBC you would have no idea that 70 plus percent of Americans are very concerned about the way our one party rule is taking this country. The silly ex-hippies and President Organizer are hell bent on taking us to a socialist utopia we can't pay for at a time when econimic recovery is the ONLY thing people care about. And if you only listen to the left wing media I'm sure you do have the impression that the birthers and tea baggers are the only thing left on the Right. The media has basically given up on any concept of unbiased reporting and have become simply mouthpieces for the DNC. And it still wont save the Dems, they are their own worst enemy, and the country's.
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That same 70 percent were concerned when the Republicans ruled alone. Giants will fall and dems will do the same. but 70 percent do not like Republicans, they are just concerned about Dems. So the Republicans are still in big trouble because they got Kunta Kinte running the show with Master Rush whipping him around. Hispanics and blacks are jumping ship. The radical religious right has not even been and cannot in the future win national elections alone.

So lets make sure we are reading the statistics correctly. The current power shift is the Democrats to lose. And they most likely will by their own power, but not because people identify with the Republican party. Those 70 percent of people have misgivings about both parties and are open to new ideas. . . Independent ideas.
 
"It's a fair assumption you are loyal republican..."

Not really, especially if you read where I wrote that I am NOT. Guess you don't get a gold star on your homework today.

And as for supplicating NK like "a baby with a rattle"...nuclear weapony has never been described so poorly...
 
sledge said:
Did you actually contribute to the expenses of this effort? I don't see how this "cost us" anything.

I'm on an anti-propaganda kick today...:bigear:

:USA:
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Surely you arent insinuating that Bill paid for the trip out of his pocket. Hell Yes we paid for it. Me, You and every other TAX payer.:ack2:
 
redhotsommer said:
"It's a fair assumption you are loyal republican..."

Not really, especially if you read where I wrote that I am NOT. Guess you don't get a gold star on your homework today.

And as for supplicating NK like "a baby with a rattle"...nuclear weapony has never been described so poorly...
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I stand corrected. I made a generalizing assumption and was wrong. I admit it.

As far the nuclear weapon issue: like I said, it's China's problem, not ours. We are not the world's police. And we cannot afford to pretend we are. If Mexico was lighting nuclear rockets, it would most definitely be our problem. But as long as we are going to voluntarily bankrupt ourselves invading countries overseas, their neighbors are going to save their loot and let us do it. They may play their political cards and not praise us, to which we will publicly lambast them for their lack of appreciation. But they will have let teh school yard bully exhaust himself with someone else's fights when he should be saving up for bigger, more important fights.

If we get the F out of the way, China will deal with them. And why is it that we are "idiots" for using diplomacy? Last time I checked, most of Lil' Kim's neighbors were sitting at that table too.
 
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