Class 1's Future ???

[Matt Trulio]

Clarification duly noted (and much appreciated—Pat W. knows his stuff).

Point remains: Class 1 is as expensive as powerboat racing gets.

Intriguing aside: If there were a Class 1 event in the United States, it would have to fall under the APBA sanction as APBA is the domestic arm of UIM.

 

[Sean H]

as long as the WPPA and the UIM are getting along at that time, thats not always the case.

 

[skaterdave]

Clarification duly noted (and much appreciated—Pat W. knows his stuff).

Point remains: Class 1 is as expensive as powerboat racing gets.

Intriguing aside: If there were a Class 1 event in the United States, it would have to fall under the APBA sanction as APBA is the domestic arm of UIM.

would that be true even if they came and raced just themselves?

C1 isn't a apba class so how do you come to that conclusion?

 

[Sean H]

if it was to be a WPPA/UIM championship point race, it has to be at a UIM sanctioned race, which here means APBA. Obviously, the teams can go race where ever they feel like.

 

[skaterdave]

if it was to be a WPPA/UIM championship point race, it has to be at a UIM sanctioned race, which here means APBA. Obviously, the teams can go race where ever they feel like.

yea but explain how that would work? there not apba racers and there not running in an apba event?

does F-1 pay an american sanctioning body when they race here ? or does moto GP pay AMA to race in the states?

 

[Sean H]

yea but explain how that would work? there not apba racers and there not running in an apba event?

does F-1 pay an american sanctioning body when they race here ? or does moto GP pay AMA to race in the states?

the event has to be UIM sanctioned, it can be a stand alone C1/WPPA event which would be UIM sanctioned, or it could an APBA which is UIM sanctioned.

F1 races have to be sanctioned by the FIA (the track as well). MotoGP races are sanctioned by the FIM. The AMA is the US affliate. If you want to run MotoGP as an american, you need to be AMA licensed to race in the FIM.

 

[Matt Trulio]

Sean H. explained it perfectly. Plus, if Class 1 did have an event here, UIM would undoubtedly solicit APBA assistance as the "local" UIM representative.

 

[shifter]

If they want to reduce costs in Class 1 get rid of carbon fiber hulls. What they are doing is pushing a rope, the class has hit a wall of developement they are still running antiquated Tank engines that are expensive and break. They need some change to shake things up and move forward.

pat W

 

[skaterdave]

If they want to reduce costs in Class 1 get rid of carbon fiber hulls. What they are doing is pushing a rope, the class has hit a wall of developement they are still running antiquated Tank engines that are expensive and break. They need some change to shake things up and move forward.

pat W

whats a Tank engine ? like an army tank?

what about points system with bonus points on amount of engines? i read that the currently use something based off of a 4 race minimun.

 

[shifter]

Yes army tank, V12 Lambo. Lambo started making tractors, when you do there there is one in the pasture right before the main plant. I never saw the tank.

pat W

 

[Sean H]

some of the faster ones no longer run lambos.

 

[Jeff Helmkamp]

Two places come to mind in a big hurry.

Atlantic City casino venue.

Las Vegas/Lake Mead casino venue.


A few thousand high rollers from around the states and overseas, combined with many more schmucks like us, would make for a very successful event I believe.

Do they race on Lake's overseas? I don't think they would come to the states to race on a lake IMO. I do like the Vegas appeal though; that is where AC looks nice to me. I like Biloxi, but the water is too flat.

 

[Ratickle]

Do they race on Lake's overseas? I don't think they would come to the states to race on a lake IMO. I do like the Vegas appeal though; that is where AC looks nice to me. I like Biloxi, but the water is too flat.

I think it would be an event with world-wide coverage. And I mean live TV here in the US with a major sports network....

The lake thing for an offshore event is an issue, but there is no way around that with a Las Vegas casino group backing an event with the world's jetsetters. And remember, we're talking about an event, not a boat race.

 

[Sean H]

Do they race on Lake's overseas? I don't think they would come to the states to race on a lake IMO. I do like the Vegas appeal though; that is where AC looks nice to me. I like Biloxi, but the water is too flat.

They have moved pretty much all their races as well inshore (lakes, rivers, bays). It is what makes it fan centered.

 

[Raylar]

Event Marketing 101A- Location, Location, Location!!

Its obvious that these teams have sponsors or team owners with extremly deep pockets ( more like bottomless caverns!) and they are obviously not looking at purse money as the payback for their participation. I think this type of extreme cost offshore racing is looking to big event and series sponsors who can receive a net benefit from the name brand exposure like RED BULL does with its air racing and such. Obviously those event and series sponsors are looking for maximum public and fan exposure for their products and thats going to happen best when you put the event near large population centers with demographics to allow great shoreside -racecourse viewing and other draws in the immediate vicinity that cater to the spectator crowd and participant owners and team people. Obviously Las Vegas would be a good draw if Lake Mead was 1-5 miles from the strip and it had good shoreside viewing and facilities. but with the closest part of Lake Mead about 35 miles from the strip and no real well equipped and convienent shoreside facilities for anybody other than boaters, you're gonna really limit your event viewers and fans who the major event series sponsor or sponsors is putting up the huge dollars to promote the race and event. Plus at Mead you would be time of year and air temperature restricted for the racing. These type of crowds, owners and team participants are not going to be thrilled with sitting in 100+ degree late spring thru fall temps during the race days or in a canopied boats. Yes I know they raced in Dubai and its 85-90 degrees there but thats still a lot cooler than 100+ degrees.
Long Beach is nice but again its so damn far from Hollywierd and LAX, the shoreside facilities and surrounding areas are not big crowd friendly for shoreside viewing of a Harbor race.
Obviously there would be several good East Cost venues like the Miami area, New York areas etc. I still think San Diego offers the best west coast event location on all around accounts and even if this class of racing never comes or joins with P1 for a combined event or for a P1 venue alone, San Diego is the best West Coast venue location.

If you look at most of their existing venue locations they have worked hard to pick sites that support these needs.

I'll shut up now and crawl back under my warm San Diego blanket!

Best Regards,
Ray @ Raylar

 

[shifter]

Lets take F1 (cars) for an example. They have Hybrid drive systems allowed to push technology and decrease emissions and push the sport into the future.

What does boat racing offer?

Boat racing used to mandate 350c.i. blown or turboed engines gas in class one, why was that changed?

If you watch some of the video from the Class 1 from this year the boats are running real loose. The speed comes from aft cg and so does the flying part. Something needs to change because it is all wrong.

So beef up the cockpit and let it fly and see what happens next. Based on the numbers if it takes off at 160 it might hit at 149. If it skips they should survive it right.

Work on getting the boats together in the states to the venues that were mentioned and they will come over like they used to. Some already did.

pat W

 

[Matt Trulio]

Its obvious that these teams have sponsors or team owners with extremly deep pockets ( more like bottomless caverns!) and they are obviously not looking at purse money as the payback for their participation. I think this type of extreme cost offshore racing is looking to big event and series sponsors who can receive a net benefit from the name brand exposure like RED BULL does with its air racing and such. Obviously those event and series sponsors are looking for maximum public and fan exposure for their products and thats going to happen best when you put the event near large population centers with demographics to allow great shoreside -racecourse viewing and other draws in the immediate vicinity that cater to the spectator crowd and participant owners and team people. Obviously Las Vegas would be a good draw if Lake Mead was 1-5 miles from the strip and it had good shoreside viewing and facilities. but with the closest part of Lake Mead about 35 miles from the strip and no real well equipped and convienent shoreside facilities for anybody other than boaters, you're gonna really limit your event viewers and fans who the major event series sponsor or sponsors is putting up the huge dollars to promote the race and event. Plus at Mead you would be time of year and air temperature restricted for the racing. These type of crowds, owners and team participants are not going to be thrilled with sitting in 100+ degree late spring thru fall temps during the race days or in a canopied boats. Yes I know they raced in Dubai and its 85-90 degrees there but thats still a lot cooler than 100+ degrees.
Long Beach is nice but again its so damn far from Hollywierd and LAX, the shoreside facilities and surrounding areas are not big crowd friendly for shoreside viewing of a Harbor race.
Obviously there would be several good East Cost venues like the Miami area, New York areas etc. I still think San Diego offers the best west coast event location on all around accounts and even if this class of racing never comes or joins with P1 for a combined event or for a P1 venue alone, San Diego is the best West Coast venue location.

If you look at most of their existing venue locations they have worked hard to pick sites that support these needs.

I'll shut up now and crawl back under my warm San Diego blanket!

Best Regards,
Ray @ Raylar

Ray,

To be sure, the owners of these teams have deep pockets ... but the expenses of Class 1 are enough, at least from what my sources inside the sport have told me, that even the wealthiest owners are going, "Wow. This is spendy." Costs have been a front-burner issue for Class 1 for several years.

I remember what Matt Alcone told me when he and Jerry Gilbreath raced in two Class 1 races in Norway. It went something like this:

"For what this cost me, I could have filled a 727 with friends, played golf in Scotland for a week and covered all the expenses, and I would have come out ahead."

As for doing anything on Lake Mead, the permitting process can be a nightmare. There are multiple agencies involved, and they don't all necessarily talk to (or even like) one another. But OSS and other outfits have raced there, so obviously it can be done.

Las Vegas proximity and buzz, however, make perfect sense to me. The downside is a boat race, even a Class 1 boat race, could get drowned out in all that buzz. I also agree that the viewing areas, much less the hospitality areas that are a Class 1 staple, present a challenge on the shores of Lake Mead.

Still, it's intriguing.

 

[Ratickle]

As for doing anything on Lake Mead, the permitting process can be a nightmare. There are multiple agencies involved, and they don't all necessarily talk to (or even like) one another. But OSS and other outfits have raced there, so obviously it can be done.

Las Vegas proximity and buzz, however, make perfect sense to me. The downside is a boat race, even a Class 1 boat race, could get drowned out in all that buzz. I also agree that the viewing areas, much less the hospitality areas that are a Class 1 staple, present a challenge on the shores of Lake Mead.

Many of the areas back from the lake, up on the hills when you are dropping to one of the main marinas, have great views of very large portions of the lake. I believe with a "tent city" back from the lake you could actually view the entire course if it was less than a 15 mile run up the lake (45 mile lap). Am I wrong once again?

 

[Sean H]

When we went out for the OSS LV race, it was 30 minutes from the strip to the Lake Mead Marina/Hemenway marina where the pits were. I don't think that will ever fly with a P1 or C1 event being 30 minutes from the race site.

They want the dry pits, wet pits, hotel, race viewing, entertainment in one location.

 

[skaterdave]

honestly i think the lake racing crap sucks. offshore race boats are meant to be offshore.

i think some of the reason offshore has declined from the "grand racing" of the past is that these boats are made to run over big seas. theres nothing that spectacular about seeing a 50 cat run in the flat basically by himself?

kinda of the same reason you don't see Trophy Trucks running around on dirt flat tracks.