Class 1's Future ???

[Ratickle]

honestly i think the lake racing crap sucks. offshore race boats are meant to be offshore.

i think some of the reason offshore has declined from the "grand racing" of the past is that these boats are made to run over big seas. theres nothing that spectacular about seeing a 50 cat run in the flat basically by himself?

kinda of the same reason you don't see Trophy Trucks running around on dirt flat tracks.

You see trophy trucks running around inside stadiums now. :sifone:

 

[phragle]

Actually... in offroad short course/stadium and desert have existed together since the early 70's, saddleback, riverside etc.... a trophy truck and a shortcourse truck are two different creatures

 

[Dude! Sweet!]

Warm in Southern CA? Ray you must have an electric blanket bud! It's raining here!

I did enjoy Bayfair this year. I think that Long Beach has the ammenities, but there is a stigma attached to the city for people who haven't been there recently or aren't into motorsports. That said, I think the LBGP still draws all right.

I've wondered how the Red Bull air races pull off the crowds that they do, and it has to be the party atmosphere that also has a plane race going on.

As cool as it would be to see these guys run over here. I think San Diego needs to get their sh*t in one sock and get the unlimiteds back before it monkies around with P1 or C1. And frankly I think the rest of the US offshore racing community needs to do the same with our national series before we worry about dragging other series over here to put on a show.

 

[skaterdave]

You see trophy trucks running around inside stadiums now. :sifone:

i guess you can't read ? i said flat tracks !!!!

for some more anologies:
monster trucks that won't jump over cars
supercross racing without jumps
champ boats that just went in a straight line
dirt bikes without dirt

i don't mind one or two inland races but the whole cop-out about fan friendly is gay

 

[Matt Trulio]

Think of the Baja 1000. It is a spectacular race. Those of you who saw "Dust to Glory," which was directed by the son of Bruce Brown (On Any Sunday, Endless Summer) know what I mean but ...

True offshore racing is the equivalent of true off-road racing. As a spectator sport, it's a tough sell because, hate to belabor the obvious, the spectators can't see it.

SkaterDave, I understand your point but if you want a sport to grow it has to be fan friendly. And there's nothing "gay" (my 16-year-old son loves throwing that out there) about that.

Maybe, in a true national offshore series (not the "national" offshore series of Florida or the "national" offshore series of the Northeast) you could offer both kinds of racing ... full on offshore rowdiness and inland waterway events. Just a thought.

 

[phragle]

Matt.. at least the locals don't rig booby traps in the ocean....

 

[SHARKEY-IMAGES]

I would think it would be a good year to recognize OPA as a "National Series" being as they have 8 races scheduled in 6 states . Alabama, Florida, Maryland, Michigan, New York and New Jersey... with the furthest from their home state of NJ being around 1,250 miles and over 1,400 miles for the OPA Racers who live in Michigan.

Just a thought..... :cheers2:

 

[skaterdave]

Think of the Baja 1000. It is a spectacular race. Those of you who saw "Dust to Glory," which was directed by the son of Bruce Brown (On Any Sunday, Endless Summer) know what I mean but ...

True offshore racing is the equivalent of true off-road racing. As a spectator sport, it's a tough sell because, hate to belabor the obvious, the spectators can't see it.

SkaterDave, I understand your point but if you want a sport to grow it has to be fan friendly. And there's nothing "gay" (my 16-year-old son loves throwing that out there) about that.

Maybe, in a true national offshore series (not the "national" offshore series of Florida or the "national" offshore series of the Northeast) you could offer both kinds of racing ... full on offshore rowdiness and inland waterway events. Just a thought.

well they(those that say the sport should sell its soul for the better) have no factual proof thats going to work. that fan friendly approach has been tried for the last several years and along with some of the other problems the "sport" is NOWHERE.

fact- when i was a kid growing up, every summer i'd be down the shore for the "Benihanni Offshore races". from pt. pleasent to Seaside park there would be people watch. the whole island was into it. now the they got MTV's jerseyshore

honestly the fans that these race promoters are chasing have no clue. and most of the races of late i've been too, i find that the people aren't that impressed after they realize its more about a circus attraction than racing. they leave totally confused. even the most avid boaters have a hard time following all the different classes.

i think the racing is and has been heading in the wrong direction. most everyone is out for themselves or just their class and with all the racers out there that talk about uniting and bettering the "sport" most of it seems to be just for show and posturing.

There is some rays of hope, but theres still way too many people with their own agendas.

as for tropht trucks, i've seen some of the Az and nevada 400 mile races on TV in the last few months. agian, those guys didn't sacrifice their sport for the fan. the tracks are still out in the wide open.

just look a atv and dirt bikes, GNCC racing (woods endurance type), though not supercross, has manged to get TV on Versus and still run a 10 mile course threw the woods and make TV happen.

 

[skaterdave]

I would think it would be a good year to recognize OPA as a "National Series" being as they have 8 races scheduled in 6 states . Alabama, Florida, Maryland, Michigan, New York and New Jersey... with the furthest from their home state of NJ being around 1,250 miles and over 1,400 miles for the OPA Racers who live in Michigan.

Just a thought..... :cheers2:

How about the BIGGEST SERIES.

i'll go out on a limb here and say smitty will have the BIGGEST overall boat count, put on the best races, and Talkin'Trash is going to bring home the STUGGOTS CUP !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:USA::USA:

 

[SHARKEY-IMAGES]

How about the BIGGEST SERIES.

i'll go out on a limb here and say smitty will have the BIGGEST overall boat count, put on the best races, and Talkin'Trash is going to bring home the STUGGOTS CUP !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:USA::USA:

:iagree: :cheers2:

 

[Matt Trulio]

Well SkaterDave, you're going in a lot of different directions, many of them valid, to reinforce your point that fan friendly racing doesn't work. Isolate those causes and what you find is that, no matter how much we love it, offshore racing doesn't work for mainstream spectators. In any form. Period.

The sport had momentum in the late 1970s and early 1980s and regained some of it in the late 1990s, only to lose it a few years later.

Tim: With all due respect to the hardworking OPA racers, who have as much spirit and enthusiasm as any group of racers in history, eight states does not comprise a "national" circuit. Add one event on the West Coast and maybe another in Texas, and I think that's a far more legitimate statement. I've met a lot of the OPA guys like Augie and Louis and I like what they're doing, but "national" circuit is a stretch.

 

[skaterdave]

Well SkaterDave, you're going in a lot of different directions, many of them valid, to reinforce your point that fan friendly racing doesn't work. Isolate those causes and what you find is that, no matter how much we love it, offshore racing doesn't work for mainstream spectators. In any form. Period.

Tim: Witl due respect to the hardworking OPA racers, who have as much spirit and enthusiasm as any group of racers in history, eight states does not comprise a "national" circuit. Add one event on the West Coast and maybe another in Texas, and I think that's a far more legitimate statement. I've met a lot of the OPA guys like Augie and Louis and I like what they're doing, but "national" circuit is a stretch.

i agree, i have a tendency to easily stray off topic and go off on my own tangents, especially here ??

if opa's not a national circuit than who is? would P1usa be considered a national circuit even if they run only 2-3 events, just because their sanctioned behind a governing body (apba) thats recognized by another sanctioned body?

 

[Matt Trulio]

SkaterDave, simple answer to your question: No one.

It's not even about sanctioning body, although I've made my opinion on what entity I think that should be abundantly clear. It's about a series that offers an event in every region of the country. You know, like when Springsteen is on a "national" tour, he doesn't stop at Traverse City, Michigan.

Now you could say, and you would be correct, that the East Coast remains the hotbed for offshore racing, and you wouldn't be wrong. But there are some very legit racers including Mike Defrees, Bob Teague and Paul Whittier who have raced and succeeded at the national level.

My point is that a series with events in each region—Northeast, Southeast, South, Midwest, Southwest, West (I'm sure I missed one)—can legitimately call itself national. At this point, that series does not exist in offshore racing.

It's not about the number of races. Ten races in Florida, for example, isn't national. It's about offering one major event per region, which is what I understand the people at Powerboat P1 North America would like to do using existing organizations under the APBA sanction. The rules for the P1 classes are already set so that APBA would simply add them, as would organizations like OPA and OSS if they were APBA sanctioned.

If there were just three P1 races in North America in 2011—one in New Jersey, one in Florida and one in California—only a fool would call that a national circuit because major regions would be left out. Trust me, I'm with you on that.

If you get a chance, reread what I wrote on http://speedonthewater.com. It's pretty clear. Will it succeed? I hope so. But if it does that success will do nothing to compromise the success of existing organizations in the states.

 

[skaterdave]

i agree somewhat with your point about having a presence in ALL regions.

so would it be fair to say OPA series has a "national" presence since it draws racers from across the nation ?

teague in cal. and whittier from northwest?

does the unlimited hydro's have a national seies ?

does just because your org is ruled under apba does that make it a national series ?

for instance, i have some friends that race apba inboard (JSS class). predominately in the northeast, maybe a race in fl and i think la. does this make them a national series ? they think so.

i reread your article and i did read that back with the original announcement of P1 plans. i myself would have several issues with the apba and i think thats going to be P1's biggest hurdle. not necessaryly P1 idea, but that its a mandatory apba event. P1 is not looking at whats been working and growing = opa's production classes, mainly p-5. i think they took a narrow view of the vee classes and think if they throw a bunch of prize money out there, that racers will come. and that might just work, until the money runs out. and when that happens, the high fees of apba will no longer look that attractive.

 

[skaterdave]

you got stop editting, i cant keep up!!!:boxing_smiley:

 

[Dude! Sweet!]

Is Nigel Hook still considered a Southern California guy?

 

[Mike A.]

When we went out for the OSS LV race, it was 30 minutes from the strip to the Lake Mead Marina/Hemenway marina where the pits were. I don't think that will ever fly with a P1 or C1 event being 30 minutes from the race site.

They want the dry pits, wet pits, hotel, race viewing, entertainment in one location.

That is why St. Pete always worked; and now it works for Indy Car too.

 

[Matt Trulio]

i agree somewhat with your point about having a presence in ALL regions.

so would it be fair to say OPA series has a "national" presence since it draws racers from across the nation ?

teague in cal. and whittier from northwest?

does the unlimited hydro's have a national seies ?

does just because your org is ruled under apba does that make it a national series ?

for instance, i have some friends that race apba inboard (JSS class). predominately in the northeast, maybe a race in fl and i think la. does this make them a national series ? they think so.

i reread your article and i did read that back with the original announcement of P1 plans. i myself would have several issues with the apba and i think thats going to be P1's biggest hurdle. not necessaryly P1 idea, but that its a mandatory apba event. P1 is not looking at whats been working and growing = opa's production classes, mainly p-5. i think they took a narrow view of the vee classes and think if they throw a bunch of prize money out there, that racers will come. and that might just work, until the money runs out. and when that happens, the high fees of apba will no longer look that attractive.

One question at a time:

1. Yes to a national presence for OPA. No to a national series.

2. Yes. Teague in California. Whittier and DeFrees in the Northwest. There are others. I just pulled quick examples that came to mind.

3. No. APBA does not have, at this time, anything resembling a national series.

4. No. Just because they think so doesn't make it so. You can call a series anything you want. But that doesn't make it what you call it.

Thanks for taking the time to reread. Lot of stuff to cover, and it raises more questions than it answers. My read on any association including OPA and OSS coming under the APBA sanctioning umbrella? (And don't look for that to happen with SBI, ever.)

It will have to be a give and take. In other words, APBA, like the associations interested in its sanction, will have to adjust and work together. Key word.

But understand this: Powerboat P1 doesn't have a choice. It has to run under APBA sanction, because APBA is the domestic arm of UIM, which Powerboat P1 runs under overseas.

 

[Matt Trulio]

Of course, we've drifted off topic, but that's not a bad thing.

I have a question: Does UIM Class 1 have any actual interest in adding at U.S. stop to its series?

That's kind of where this thread started ... and I have no, as in zero, idea.

 

[Raylar]

Matt:
I agree totally and I think you are spot on with the national definition!

This is eactly what major event sponsors want and need to put down the big bucks and work it takes to take a series national and especially international!

Dude!Sweet!:

As for San Diego gett'in its shi* in one bag you don't know the dynamics or real issues at BayFair.
First, when Bernie Little died and Budweiser stopped racing in Unlimiteds, the sport just about died with him. He used to almost fully support that sport with his money and time and enthusiasim. The use of turbines and the lack of rumble has almost killed the spectator support and the Unlimited teams left and their sponsors are struggling to stay afloat in this economy. San Diego BayFair when all classes are there and running is one of the countries premeir boat racing venues and events and the past years and crowds prove that.
As for Long Beach, they seem to have a lot of shi* in to many bags! They do a great job with LBGP considering what the've got to work with but they do not have a World Class Venue location for P1 - C1 class racing in my opinion, but hell as I said in the first place ,I'am biased!

In any event lets try as a sport to get offshore(nowdays definition) to a real national event status as Matt reminds us!

Best Regards,
Ray @ Raylar