Merc 420 Cyclone engines

[BDC1013]

I was going to have the drives gone through and checked out professionally. One thing that I wanted to change was the seal between the transom and drive. I was told this was good to change while the engines are out

just read this,



.............

a little advice...I WOULD GET THEM CHECKED ANYWAYS !!!

if something is wrong seal wise..and they just filled new oild in ..it looks ok but if u run it then the oil will go FAST..and u will end up burning the upper gear !
THIS GEAR SET IS ~ $ 1500-3000 + labor !!

Why i tell u this? because it happend to me when i bought my boat ...did 93 for about 1 minute..and the gear was melted on to the down shaft !!!
Only because the propshaft seal was worn ! OH..and the oil loked like brand new and the guy i bought the boat from said the drive is freah rebuild !:ack2:

Let me shoot out some inquiries and see what we can find ut....

Yeah let me know. These seem like a deal. Private sale no tax and just freight.

 

[C35]

I think what they were telling you when they said "transom" is the transom assembly, more commonly called a gimble. There are two pieces back there, the drive and the gimble. The gimble is the piece that holds and swivels the drive. The parts, working from the outdrive back are the helmet, gimbal ring and transom mount. there's a piece between the transom mount and the outdrive that runs through the gimbal ring and under the helmet that seals the u-joints. It's the boot. These deteriorate and should be regularly replaced.

It's somewhat rare for the gasket on the transom assembly to go bad. It wouldn't hurt to look inside the transom for signs of leakage though.

While you're there and have the drives off, the gimble bearings need to be looked at. There are four on each. Two for the up/down motion and two for it to swivel left and right. These are under immense load when running and they can wear.

Take a look here- you can see exploded views of everything inside the drives- http://www.mercruiserparts.com/selectDocs.asp?doc_nbr=13668 Yours are the SSM III (old style)

 

[C35]

If you haven't gotten those props off yet, I'd use some heat and either a socket on a big bar or a powerful impact. Don't make them glow as you'll melt the shaft seals. But getting them pretty hot with a mapp gas torch should break them loose. They're standard thread. You should be able to get a piece of lumber between the prop and the cavitation plate- the horizontal plate that's above the prop. Get the wood on the body of the blade, not the tip.

And DON'T HIT THEM to remove the props. You don't even want to know what #3 props cost. get the proper puller. Someone will probably rent you one.

 

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

I think what they were telling you when they said "transom" is the transom assembly, more commonly called a gimble. There are two pieces back there, the drive and the gimble. http://www.mercruiserparts.com/selectDocs.asp?doc_nbr=13668 Yours are the SSM III (old style)

The proper names of the main parts are: The drive bolts to the bell housing{ often referred to as the helmet} it has the horizontal pivots. It rides in the gimble ring which has the vertical pivots. The transom plate holds the ring. The entire collection of parts including the inner plates is called the transom assembly.

Boots go on your feet the rubber piece housing the universal joints is called a bellows. :smash:

 

[Ratickle]

........Boots go on your feet ...........

You always told me Crocs go on your feet.......

 

[600sci]

C35 is correct !

on the bearings and seals and all that .. i dont think its the wear...but if the boat sat for that long .. i think its hardend and seezed !
dont care and / or get blinded by the look of the oil !

Like i said , i did .. it ended up costing me 4800 bucks to get my #4 SSM fixed back then ! just because a 20 dollar part that i could of changed myself with hand tools.
Here lies the other problem.. not everybody has the tools to work on the SSM drives.. the tool set to work on these is over 20 K !

There are only a few and i think 2 in CALI.
TEAGUE and BOOSTPOWER... i think Weismann does not work on the older SSM anymore .. but its worth a call to ask !

proffesionally going thru the drives ..should not be more then 1000 each.. but if done correctly ... LAST FOR EVER AND ARE ALMOST UNBREAKABLE ( if taken care off ) !!!

with the #3's i would have myself build some nice 540-572 CI making 650-700 HP reliable....

BOAT WOULD HAULL A$$ and u would have a blast !

Also resale would be HIGH !

So that said .. do it once, do it right !

and if somebody told u to go boating is fairly cheap.. WELL HE LIED !!! :sifone:

 

[C35]

Boots go on your feet the rubber piece housing the universal joints is called a bellows. :smash:

Yeah- that was dumb.

But when I hear the term transom plate, I think of the inside piece? I guess it's decades of bastardized terminology.

 

[C35]

with the #3's i would have myself build some nice 540-572 CI making 650-700 HP reliable....

I don't think that's in the budget. And let's not scare this guy into thinking he has to spend $40-50K or he might as well not bother. A set of warmed up big blocks are going to make this a fun boat to run and not going to bankrupt him.

Nobody likes to get passed. But there's always going to be someone faster. These days there are more than a few boats that will walk away from an 185mph Skater. So, get on the water and enjoy yourself. Do what needs done to prevent you having to come back to the dock on the end of a rope. Those are going to be the little things- a trim pump that got water in the motor, or a hose rubbed through. Or a bad switch or electrical connection. That stuff you can do yourself and it doesn't have to cost you a fortune. It's mostly time. Look at everything on the boat and ask yourself what could go wrong with it. Then assume it will. Figure out how to keep that from happening.

 

[MILD THUNDER]

I got a quote of around 1000.00 per drive from Craig Collabella in florida to take my SSM drives apart, inspect, and reseal. Mine have been working fine, but would like to have them opened up and replace any bearings or things that might be going south. I heard Craig is a straight shooter and a good ssm drive guy.

 

[600sci]

I got a quote of around 1000.00 per drive from Craig Collabella in florida to take my SSM drives apart, inspect, and reseal. Mine have been working fine, but would like to have them opened up and replace any bearings or things that might be going south. I heard Craig is a straight shooter and a good ssm drive guy.

There is a guy closer to you then Greg.. same price and same work etic.maybe even better ! I TRUSST HIM 100% .

Jerry Haney in NC !

Driveguy on OSO !

tell him i send you Joe !

 

[600sci]

I don't think that's in the budget. And let's not scare this guy into thinking he has to spend $40-50K or he might as well not bother. A set of warmed up big blocks are going to make this a fun boat to run and not going to bankrupt him.

Nobody likes to get passed. But there's always going to be someone faster. These days there are more than a few boats that will walk away from an 185mph Skater. So, get on the water and enjoy yourself. Do what needs done to prevent you having to come back to the dock on the end of a rope. Those are going to be the little things- a trim pump that got water in the motor, or a hose rubbed through. Or a bad switch or electrical connection. That stuff you can do yourself and it doesn't have to cost you a fortune. It's mostly time. Look at everything on the boat and ask yourself what could go wrong with it. Then assume it will. Figure out how to keep that from happening.

I understand, but why would spend 40 K ...those engines are out there used in good condition for much less !
Then again, i got your point..some nice beefed up 502s will do the trick..or even 454's where he could reuse the block he has !
no need to buy crate engines if u know people !
Then again.. i dont know anybody in Cali ecsept for Bob T and Alexi at BOOSTPOWER !
Scott Mander has some nice used parts and engines all the time .. he may even have a HP 420 in good shape for cheap !
On the drives, u 100% need a guy that knows them to look at them !
I learned the hard way !:ack2:

 

[C35]

I understand, but why would spend 40 K ?:

Because 700 hp is going to need stronger transmissions, larger engine and trans coolers, complete re-plumbing of all the cooler stuff with external filters, a complete re-do of the fuel system and more. And when you start buying two at a time a bunch of items that are "only" a couple hundred a piece, pretty soon you're buried in a boat that is worth somewhat less than what you have into it. That's not to mention that the old Gil manifolds would be hard pressed to support 700 hp. Plus, they were notorious for reversion unless you used the full length dry tails. So you aren't going to be able to run much cam.

$40K might be light.

The boat is what it is. It's an older, very heavy hull that's going to ride comfortably at moderate speeds even on the sloppier days. And it has the sentimentality of being his dad's. If you want a 36 Mirage to do 80, it's going to take a big chunk of money. You'd be further ahead to use the Mirage as a down payment on a nice used 35/38 Fountain with merc/bravo power. Easy on gas, easier to tow. Easy and much less expensive to fix. But it won't be his dad's.

On used engines, you never know what you're going to get. I talked to a guy last year that replaced his tired 465's with blue 500HP's. They were "low hour" takeouts. Not bad shape, good compression but they needed a top end job- it's just what you do at 200 hours. Two heads had tiny cracks between the seats. Needed timing sets and you might as well do the lifters. Each needed a couple injectors each. Then it's the lines/hoses/plug wires/cap and rotors that nickle-dime you to death. Without touching the bottom end he had more than a few thousand into "good running takeouts". In the end, he could have put in a set of 525's with half the hours for what he spent. Sometimes saving a buck isn't.

 

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

I was going to have the drives gone through and checked out professionally. One thing that I wanted to change was the seal between the transom and drive. I was told this was good to change while the engines are out

On your boat there is a cork gasket between the transom plate and the transom. Yes, when the engines are out it is certainly easier. Other than that there is an o ring and a gasket that should be changed every time the drive comes off. Both are in expensive.

 

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

I got a quote of around 1000.00 per drive from Craig Collabella in florida to take my SSM drives apart, inspect, and reseal. Mine have been working fine, but would like to have them opened up and replace any bearings or things that might be going south. I heard Craig is a straight shooter and a good ssm drive guy.

Craig is a good guy. He worked at lake X for Mercury for about 20 years. His shop is in St Cloud.

 

[Ratickle]

Anybody closer to Cali you know of?

 

[600sci]

Craig is a good guy. He worked at lake X for Mercury for about 20 years. His shop is in St Cloud.

So u think Jerry is not a good guy ??? WOW :bump::sifone:

 

[600sci]

Because 700 hp is going to need stronger transmissions, larger engine and trans coolers$40K might be light.

Why would u need bigger trannies ???? the 8 plate BW C72 are easy good for 700 FPT so thats a lot and over 700 HP !

the coolers on the bellhousing should be the regular ones... so they are good too ( i have over 700 HP on them ! )...the trannie cooler i use a inline 12 inch one ! nothing special or expensive !

just sayin'

 

[Ratickle]

So u think Jerry is not a good guy ??? WOW :bump::sifone:

Not what he said at all. He commented on the guy that had been found and he had the quote from....

Relax

 

[600sci]

Not what he said at all. He commented on the guy that had been found and he had the quote from....

Relax

im just busting his balls......

Jerry is closer then Graig..and they are good friends too..so either way ..the price is pretty much normal for a SSM to re-seal and check !

I was just refering to Jerry since he is in NC....and the shipping from IN to FL is higher then from IN to NC... i use freightquote and always tell them its aluminum castings... ITS FREIGHT CLASS 60 that way !

Drain the oil, lay them on a pallet and starp them down.... build a little would around them with some 2X4's and 1/4 ply... good to go !

 

[Ratickle]

Why would u need bigger trannies ???? the 8 plate BW C72 are easy good for 700 FPT so thats a lot and over 700 HP !

the coolers on the bellhousing should be the regular ones... so they are good too ( i have over 700 HP on them ! )...the trannie cooler i use a inline 12 inch one ! nothing special or expensive !

just sayin'

I'll disagree with youthere. My 630HP 540's puked 9 plate 72's twice before I had them done with the 1450 Huber setup's. They only had 602 lbs torque....