IPR Question

[Seafordguy]

Fixxxer - this is directed at you!!

I cleaned and reinstalled the IPR. The first time I did it I put the small needle in the OPPOSITE of the way it is shown in this pdf. The truck ran without hesitation but seemed a little down on power and pedal response.

So I pulled it back out and put the little tiny needle in the CORRECT way (ie what is shown in the pdf.). The truck positively would NOT start, blow smoke or anything.

I pulled it back off this morning, and put the needle back in the opposite way of what we see in the pdf - truck started right up, idles great, doesn't hesitate, but is down on power and pedal pressure - which I understand since it is probably not getting the correct inputs for fuel delivery.

Should I replace this IPR all together? I know FORD doesn't service these items and you might not know, but what is your take?

P.S. - it wasn't the IDM.

 

[fixxxer22]

I am confused about the IPR, are you removing this from the 2 wire controller located on the high pressure pump? the pdf file is not attached. could you check again and send mw what you were going by?

 

[Seafordguy]

Here is the PDF. The little tiny needle I am talking about is on the middle right picture at the bottom of the pdf....

 

[fixxxer22]

I have never serviced the valve itself. I cant even find any procedure in the workshop manuals even describing the breakdown of the actual valve. I understand someone has developed a way to mess with it but i feel that it is not a needed repair. i have never replaced a ipr valve on a 7.3 i have replaced many ipr solenoids but not valves. Usually the only time i deal with an ipr is when the nut chatters off the back of one and they act like they need a few injectors. they have a service kit for a new nut and washer.

I would replace the valve first if you can get it sperate from the solenoid (electromagnet) i would also get a new nut and washer kit.

 

[Seafordguy]

I have never serviced the valve itself. I cant even find any procedure in the workshop manuals even describing the breakdown of the actual valve. I understand someone has developed a way to mess with it but i feel that it is not a needed repair. i have never replaced a ipr valve on a 7.3 i have replaced many ipr solenoids but not valves. Usually the only time i deal with an ipr is when the nut chatters off the back of one and they act like they need a few injectors. they have a service kit for a new nut and washer.

I would replace the valve first if you can get it sperate from the solenoid (electromagnet) i would also get a new nut and washer kit.

Guy on Ebay had one for 120 bucks shipped to the house so I figure "what the hell". I couldn't find the solenoid separate from the whole thing so I just bought the whole thing. Hopefully it fixes the problem.

 

[Seafordguy]

I am frustrated - that didn't fix it either.

I drove it all day with that needle in backwards with the same result - no hesitation, but no response and slightly less power, and when I got home and put the new valve in it didn't start at all again. It came with the solenoid wrapped around the valve so the whole assembly is new. Either way, no luck.

 

[fixxxer22]

hmmm. remove the4 plug from the top of the high pressure pump resivoir. it is the rectangle comming upward that the high pressure pump is hooked to. it is dead center front and top of the engine. the plug is off to one side and is (i believe) a 6mm allen head. make sure the resivoir is full of oil. let me know what u find.

 

[Seafordguy]

hmmm. remove the4 plug from the top of the high pressure pump resivoir. it is the rectangle comming upward that the high pressure pump is hooked to. it is dead center front and top of the engine. the plug is off to one side and is (i believe) a 6mm allen head. make sure the resivoir is full of oil. let me know what u find.

Yeah - I have checked the level in it. It is full - just to be sure I topped it off, but it was a mute point.

What role does the PCM play in this? (Not the IDM)

 

[fixxxer22]

PCM interprets the pressure from the ICP sensor. It then regulates the oil pressure using the IPR. The pump is always running at 100% the IPR just dumps off oil pressure to what the PCM wants to have for ICP at that time.

 

[fixxxer22]

Do you still have your old ICP Sensor?

 

[fixxxer22]

It is just hard to continue diag without an ids. it just seems like either the pcm is not getting the input from the icp to fire the injecotrs and by possibly turning the needle around you are running at maxium pressure and not bleeding it off. the sensor may have bias or the pump is not putting out enough high pressure oil anymore. try your old icp sensor with the ipr in the correct way. see if it runs then. i have seen new icp sensors with bias in them right out of the box.

 

[Seafordguy]

It is just hard to continue diag without an ids. it just seems like either the pcm is not getting the input from the icp to fire the injecotrs and by possibly turning the needle around you are running at maxium pressure and not bleeding it off. the sensor may have bias or the pump is not putting out enough high pressure oil anymore. try your old icp sensor with the ipr in the correct way. see if it runs then. i have seen new icp sensors with bias in them right out of the box.

This is what I was wondering - although I couldn't say it as technically. It seems like I am possibly tricking the PCM into thinking the oil pressure is higher by having the needle in backwards and it starts.

Just swapped ICP sensors with no success.

I pulled the PCM and noticed it has some Banks Ottomind chip in it. I was unaware of that....

Does it seem unlikely that the HPOP is faulty considering it will run fine with that valve in backwards?

 

[fixxxer22]

Turn the igntion off and remove the chip. i have seen the stacked chip overheat and ruin over 20 pcms. wsee if there is any change. can you get ahold of scanner to view a datastream? we want to look at VREF and see what is happening. Or do you have a digital good multimeter?

 

[Seafordguy]

Turn the igntion off and remove the chip. i have seen the stacked chip overheat and ruin over 20 pcms. wsee if there is any change. can you get ahold of scanner to view a datastream? we want to look at VREF and see what is happening. Or do you have a digital good multimeter?

Removed Chip - no difference.

I have been trying to locate someone close by with a scanner to view data stream but haven't had any luck.

I have a good multimeter though....

 

[fixxxer22]

Unhook the icp sensor and use the multimeter. turn the key to run and check on a voltage scale of 20 dcv (unless it is self ranging ) check between the balck and gray with red stripe wire. should be 4.98-5.01v. any other reading will mess up the entire engine control system. let me know what u find. we are looking at the 5v refrence system. the ground is controlled by the pcm so be sure to use the ground at the connector harness side black. that is also the signal return line.

 

[Seafordguy]

Unhook the icp sensor and use the multimeter. turn the key to run and check on a voltage scale of 20 dcv (unless it is self ranging ) check between the balck and gray with red stripe wire. should be 4.98-5.01v. any other reading will mess up the entire engine control system. let me know what u find. we are looking at the 5v refrence system. the ground is controlled by the pcm so be sure to use the ground at the connector harness side black. that is also the signal return line.

4.97 - no kidding....

 

[fixxxer22]

that is in spec... ok. hmmmm... i need to ponder on... something...

 

[Seafordguy]

Is it unreasonabe to think that the PCM is incorrectly bleeding off all the oil pressure when the IPR is in the correct way and preventing it from starting but when the needle valve in the IPR is in incorrectly it is forcing pressure and causing it to start/run??

 

[fixxxer22]

I would not suspect a pcm at this point. i woiuld not go and buy one. you could try and swap yours out with a buddies and see what happens. i usually see the vref going haywire on the trucks with the stacked chips when the pcm overheats. im gonna talk with my other diesel buddy on monday.... see what he thinks.

 

[Seafordguy]

I would not suspect a pcm at this point. i woiuld not go and buy one. you could try and swap yours out with a buddies and see what happens. i usually see the vref going haywire on the trucks with the stacked chips when the pcm overheats. im gonna talk with my other diesel buddy on monday.... see what he thinks.

Thanks Fixxxer - If there is a positive here it is that I have learned alot about the truck...