It's about time!!!!!!!!!!!

it,s real easy to break the loyalty cycle!!!we need all the org,s to run their program as usuall,,then you neen someone like APBA to step up and pick two or three races from all the org,s and call it the NATIONAL CIRCUT,, THAT WILL FORCE the org,s to run their own regin, knowing their is a national circut.the racers that can afford to, do so run it ,,the ones that can,t ,simply stay close to home,, something close to that?


I simply dont think that will change anything, look how many one boat classes, Have National and World Champions all over thier boat, It's all about feeling good about one's self, or stroking one's ego if you will. When you have a gazillion classes and keep making more as to not pi$$ people off, or have them take thier circus to the next town instead of your town this is the end result.

The smaller class in other types of boat racing all have a ladder, one does not jump into a F1 boat or Unlimited because they have the CASH to do so.
The same goes for most other motorsports, unfortunately most would never achieve the pinnacle of offshore due to it being financed out of one's own pocket.

In My Opinion if APBA does regulate the future of offshore they need to start by only recognizing certain classes when it comes to records, while growth of the sport can still happen, you want to be the name in the record book it will take more than money can buy, it will take Skill, desire, and a platform that is recognised!
 
All this job stuff interferes with time I'd like to spend watching DVDs. Last thing I watched? The History of Skater. (But it was kind of like boat porn.)

Matt:

Now you're scaring me!!

Do we need to send out that DVD in a plain brown wrapper?

T2x
 
LSMFT. Am I the only one that noticed that organization?:cheers2:


You were also the only one who picked out the meaning of my screen name many years ago.......

I think you and I went to different schools together. ;)

T2x
 
I simply dont think that will change anything, look how many one boat classes, Have National and World Champions all over thier boat, It's all about feeling good about one's self, or stroking one's ego if you will. When you have a gazillion classes and keep making more as to not pi$$ people off, or have them take thier circus to the next town instead of your town this is the end result.

The smaller class in other types of boat racing all have a ladder, one does not jump into a F1 boat or Unlimited because they have the CASH to do so.
The same goes for most other motorsports, unfortunately most would never achieve the pinnacle of offshore due to it being financed out of one's own pocket.

In My Opinion if APBA does regulate the future of offshore they need to start by only recognizing certain classes when it comes to records, while growth of the sport can still happen, you want to be the name in the record book it will take more than money can buy, it will take Skill, desire, and a platform that is recognised!


I was in a bit of a friendly debate last weekend that ended with an interesting conclusion:

Given the calm water racing around the world and the speeds of the fastest cats, a single driver with a foot throttle and trim on the wheel (as in Formula 1) would outrun a driver-throttleman combination in all but the roughest races. In reality the "money guy" (usually the driver) does not have the skill level of a JT, Steve Curtis , or Joe Imprescia and , in many cases, slows the whole process down while "communicating" during the tight racing action. I would become a real fan again if those three, and a few others, ( Ballough, Billy Moore, Jeff Harris, etc) lined up in single seaters (of any size) in one class.

Formula 1 and Unlimited hydros feature "Top Gun" talent first and foremost, with the boat being secondary to the issue (It's about Rinker vs Torrente, vs Seebold not hull versus hull). In Offshore it has become which driver can pay for his seat, and which owner can pay the remainder. Talent takes a back seat to cash flow. In the top racing circuits ( Formula 1 cars, Nascar, etc), the well heeled owners man the pit lanes and leave the driving to the guys who know how to do it. Nascar would be a hell of a lot less successful if Hendrick took the wheel while Jeff Gordon handled the shifting and pedals.

The sport has suffered from high profile owners pouring money into self promotion for a few years and leaving a bewildered public in their wake. Top people (with star potential) like Bill Sirois, Bobby Moore, Richie Powers, Jerry Gilbreath, Bob Idoni, Jim Dyke and many others have toiled silently as the second banana to the "rollers' for decades, when in fact all of the wins came from the hired guns' skill and knowledge. Instead of fans coming to see the truly talented guys, all you heard from them was "Where's Popeye's?", even years after that team's last race. Add that to a big fleet of weekend warriors in the sportsman classes clamoring for attention (and precious sponsorship dollars) with no real basis for fan support, and you completely obscure the real talent pool. Instead of providing a string of stars for the newer guys to emulate and fans to support, we have a developmental system based solely on a desire for a bigger, faster boat. In the end, we have done a masterful job of burying the beef and glorifying the sizzle.

If ever we get another real mass media opportunity, this problem, too, must be solved.

T2x
 
pete ,,i agree with that...i,v been preaching that for a while,,,i,m still trying to find "the old record" ???

If you're talking about the Miami-Palm Beach run..... The record is held by Dave Craig in an 18' outboard Switzer Wing...... "Miss Skyway".... at near 95 mph during the Gold Coast Marathon....set in 1964. Of course, he turned around and went back, as the race was Miami-Palm Beach-Miami, and he had a whopping 200 horsepower at his disposal. I would love to see Geico break the record .....with the same size boat and engines.

T2x
 
Well, I do not really want in this debate: But let's look at a single fact, the Great Races are all about the Race Site, Location, Location, Location ,, We listen to the Stories , the tale,s the Legends, and there is one common thought,,, It's about Key West, St. Pete, St Clair, New Jersy, The Rum Run, think about this ,, If APBA secured the top 6-8 Race Site's and Worked with Local promoter,( finiancial partner) and those site's were set in stone , then all of the rest would fall in line ie: TV, major sponser's, travel plan's for race team's ect: of course that would mean that JC would have to share and that has not happened in a long time !! OK, I am out !

RHC
 
t2x for the most part your post is right,,,but i have to say ,REAL offshore race fans do know the differance with the REAL throttle men and REAL drivers and the teams them selfs know who is the best ,, Real offshore race fans know a DOG AND PONY SHOW when they see it,,believe me it,s wisperd,,muttered under their breaths at EVERY race, mean while not to be ruud you shake hands, smile, slap em on the back and say ya never saw anything like it? it,s pimp,s ho,s and jon,s,,,i give u money u do this and i,m da man.
 
You already have the real race fans involved. Getting the general public involved is when it becomes them paying for you to race vs you paying for you to race.
 
your very right Mark,,,but with what and who in play right now that won,t happen for a while....i glad our fans see whats going on, and want racing,,10-12 boats a class. if you look i complemented our fans,
 
I think the only ones that profit at the boat races/parade are the bars, and the flag manufactures.
 
T2X,

No argument about where the talent is. But it's important to remember where the wallet is. Well-heeled drivers, and in the glamor classes they are all well-heeled get into offshore racing for the thrill and competition. They are competitive by nature. (That's probably why they're well-heeled.)

But when it becomes fueling about the owner's ego, the talent gets obscured. I've been told by more than one talented throttleman that he always lets the owner talk to the reporters first. It's crazy but, to borrow from Michael Corleone, "It's business. Just business."

On the other hand—remember again where the wallet is. The owner pays the bills with little to no return on investment other a trophy. A $10,000 purse, if such things really existed, would not come close to pay a weekend's racing expenses in the glamor classes. And we are going to ask these guys to subjugate their egos but continue paying their bills "for the good of the sport?" I don't think so.

And we also need to ask: Why does offshore racing have such a miserable retention rate with the Forest Barbers, the Matt Alcones and so on? I think the answer is somewhere in the subject line of this thread.

Flat water, smooth water, in the high-dollar classes, you'll need a team in the cockpit. One to throttle. One to fund. No disrespect meant to the owners who happen to be talented drivers and can work in tandem with a throttleman, but nobody argues about where the real talent lies.

Still, T2X's idea is intriguing. And it's workable because in the classes he's talking about the costs aren't quite so high. (But make no mistake, nothing about boat racing will ever be "cheap.")


Just a web conversation, for sure, and not a crusade. But conversation is where things start. And I think everyone in this thread agrees that being under one umbrella organization would be a giant step in the right direction for offshore racing.
 
Well heeled owners

We actually used the designation. CWC. "Cheeseboy With Checkbook". From time to time they even have talent.
Steve
 
If you're talking about the Miami-Palm Beach run..... The record is held by Dave Craig in an 18' outboard Switzer Wing...... "Miss Skyway".... at near 95 mph during the Gold Coast Marathon....set in 1964. Of course, he turned around and went back, as the race was Miami-Palm Beach-Miami, and he had a whopping 200 horsepower at his disposal. I would love to see Geico break the record .....with the same size boat and engines.

T2x
If only that was an offshore race, but it wasn't.
 
If you're talking about the Miami-Palm Beach run..... The record is held by Dave Craig in an 18' outboard Switzer Wing...... "Miss Skyway".... at near 95 mph during the Gold Coast Marathon....set in 1964. Of course, he turned around and went back, as the race was Miami-Palm Beach-Miami, and he had a whopping 200 horsepower at his disposal. I would love to see Geico break the record .....with the same size boat and engines.

T2x

that race paid $1000 (over $8k todays dollar) in 1952 to the winner.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?n...h4LAAAAIBAJ&sjid=I08DAAAAIBAJ&pg=5643,1309898
 
Sean...I don't think we're creating anything.....This is simply a web based conversation. Let's not make it into a "crusade".

T2x

My crusading days are done I want to race...what I am hoping for is to compete in a World Championship race with more than a dozen boats in that class!!!!!

I am simply stating the fact that hopefully everyone can come to an arrangement where we can all race again!!!! That would the new era that I was referring to!!!!!

By all means continue on with this conversation!!!!!
 
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