The Last Truck documentary on HBO........

[THEJOKER]

I've seen union line haul truck drivers (YFS) sit for hours and refuse to even roll their landing gear. And they wonder they'll going broke.

 

[Ratickle]

I've seen union line haul truck drivers (YFS) sit for hours and refuse to even roll their landing gear. And they wonder they'll going broke.

I follow YRC closely, their costs are 42% higher than the non-union cariers doing LTL around the nation. Productivity the number one reason after their 15% paycut and no more pension payments.

 

[Ratickle]

If it weren't for the public sector of unionized employees, unions would mostly be done. This trend explains why the elected politicians are so union bought and paid for. Unfortunately, those same officials sell them out after they get elected, just like the union management does.


Membership by Industry and Occupation

The union membership rate for public sector workers (36.8 percent)
was substantially higher than the rate for private industry workers
(7.6 percent). Within the public sector, local government workers had
the highest union membership rate, 42.2 percent. This group includes
many workers in several heavily unionized occupations, such as teachers,
police officers, and fire fighters. Private sector industries with
high unionization rates include transportation and utilities (22.2 per-
cent), telecommunications (19.3 percent), and construction (15.6 per-
cent). In 2008, unionization rates were relatively low in financial
activities (1.8 percent) and professional and business services (2.1
percent).

 

[ImaPoser]

He quickly responded that $25 an hour is $1,000 a week and in Ohio that is like making 100K a year anywhere else!

Well then can he find someone to sell me a $100K boat for $52K? I'm in Ohio...:bigear:

 

[JupiterSunsation]

Well then can he find someone to sell me a $100K boat for $52K? I'm in Ohio...:bigear:

COLA-Cost of living adjustment :sifone:

Stop by National Liquidators there are plenty of 100K boats for sale at 50% off......

 

[RLJ676]

Rat you are off a little there in your reasoning......

They built what sold and at that time it was SUV's. When fuel got expensive and people had less discretionary income then the SUV fad was over.

The small car market was going to be the future whether the govt. suggested it or not. Look at the world, we were the only one's building SUV's/trucks/minivans! If the domestic 3 were allowed to produce only what was popular then they would be in tougher shape than they are now! The high mileage crap is what they should be making to be competitive and this isn't the first time the Big 3 missed that point. History is repeating itself from the early 70's when Honda/Toyota emerged and Detroit ignored them and kept building LTD's, Impalas and other boats!

Americans have just now realized their overconsumption issues and as the baby boomer's retire their past spending sprees are over so if you have relied on this for the past 30 years you need to adjust your business model........

This isn't what he's talking about. CAFE regulations dictate that your fleet milage has to meet a certain level, and to offset the low milage of the large powerful vehicles people want, and will buy at a profitable level, you sell little fuel efficient cars that people only buy at a bargain level (no profit or a loss). People do not now, and never have wanted, smaller cars than they are forced into by economics. Small cars sold well for 5 months or so last year, otherwise they still are not popular, and therefore not profitable.

Also, I'd say Detroit has been ahead of the curve in fuel efficiency adjustments, just not ready for $5 gas last summer. Check out who the most fuel efficient cars are right now, that were developed 4 years ago. Here's a hint, in basically no class but "Prius" is it not domestic (Fusion, Cobalt, Fusion Hybrid, Silverado, Equinox....etc). Check out the Traverse, Equinox etc vs the competition. This has been in the works for years to ween people off Tahoes, etc as gas gradually climbs. It will still be quite a few years (or $5 gas) before small cars are selling at any real rate, or any kind of premium.

So, this is nothing like the 70's in reality, just in the perception of the public.

 

[JupiterSunsation]

This isn't what he's talking about. CAFE regulations dictate that your fleet milage has to meet a certain level, and to offset the low milage of the large powerful vehicles people want, and will buy at a profitable level, you sell little fuel efficient cars that people only buy at a bargain level (no profit or a loss). People do not now, and never have wanted, smaller cars than they are forced into by economics. Small cars sold well for 5 months or so last year, otherwise they still are not popular, and therefore not profitable.


So, this is nothing like the 70's in reality, just in the perception of the public.

I know about the dynamics of CAFE regs and the penalty of a gas guzzler tax added to the sticker if they don't meet the avg regs.

It is directly parallel to the 70's, people didn't want small econoboxes back then either but market forces (high cost + low availablilty of fuel) made Americans buy smaller, cheaper cars just like now. As an example my neighbor is the son of a longtime GM employee (GM discounts!) and in the 8 years he has been a neighbor he always have had GM products in the driveway. Last summer he had a leased 08 Escalade. The fuel, lease payment were ridiculous but since GM stopped leasing the truck was easy to unload on leasetrader.com which he did. He then wrote a check for 10K for a used Toyota Highlander. Problem solved, no payments and a more fuel efficient car.


Decisions like this don't help GM plants that still produce Escalades.......

 

[RLJ676]

I know about the dynamics of CAFE regs and the penalty of a gas guzzler tax added to the sticker if they don't meet the avg regs.

It is directly parallel to the 70's, people didn't want small econoboxes back then either but market forces (high cost + low availablilty of fuel) made Americans buy smaller, cheaper cars just like now. As an example my neighbor is the son of a longtime GM employee (GM discounts!) and in the 8 years he has been a neighbor he always have had GM products in the driveway. Last summer he had a leased 08 Escalade. The fuel, lease payment were ridiculous but since GM stopped leasing the truck was easy to unload on leasetrader.com which he did. He then wrote a check for 10K for a used Toyota Highlander. Problem solved, no payments and a more fuel efficient car.


Decisions like this don't help GM plants that still produce Escalades.......

A highlander is not a fuel efficient car, and there were plenty of domestic options with similar or better milage. Just because the public thinks toyota is green doesn't make it true. That is still along ways from a small car too.

 

[Sutphen39]

I drove an Impala as a company car for three years and it averaged 28 mpg at the end after 80K. That was with the 200 hp and I didn't think that was too bad. It would pull 34-35 going down the highway. I am not sure if the larger import cars can do the same.

 

[Ratickle]

This isn't what he's talking about. CAFE regulations dictate that your fleet milage has to meet a certain level, and to offset the low milage of the large powerful vehicles people want, and will buy at a profitable level, you sell little fuel efficient cars that people only buy at a bargain level (no profit or a loss).

Exactly, sorry I said COLA instead of CAFE.

There is still the second thing missing from the response. Not only did the domestic manufacturers have to make the small cars to keep their Mandated fleet mileage rating up. They also could not compete with the foreign manufacturers on price because of the Mandated domestic pollution laws, domestic labor laws, and the highest corporate taxes in the world.

 

[JupiterSunsation]

A highlander is not a fuel efficient car, and there were plenty of domestic options with similar or better milage. Just because the public thinks toyota is green doesn't make it true. That is still along ways from a small car too.

Forgot to mention he has 4 kids.......just wanted cheap, reliable and better fuel econ. than the 6.0 Escalade. His wife still has an 07 Yukon XL but the Toyota was a compromise car, definitely not his style.

 

[JupiterSunsation]

Exactly, sorry I said COLA instead of CAFE.

There is still the second thing missing from the response. Not only did the domestic manufacturers have to make the small cars to keep their Mandated fleet mileage rating up. They also could not compete with the foreign manufacturers on price because of the Mandated domestic pollution laws, domestic labor laws, and the highest corporate taxes in the world.

Rat

The foreign carmakers didn't worry about CAFE since they didn't make any offenders the US was the sole producer of big trucks/SUV's. Toyota didn't offer a V8 or a full size truck until 4-5 years ago (first Tundra's were V6 mid size pickups). Honda has never made a V8 or a pick-up (their current Pilot with an open bed is more of a crossover). They never ran in the guzzler markets so never had to worry about the CAFE regs. The Big 3 got smacked by their own country's rules enacted by the people the unions put in place! In the 70's and 90's the Big 3 were building dinosaurs that became extinct in the popularity category. When they tried to fix it by building econoboxes they failed miserably (Pinto, Vega, Caddy Cimmaron)

Domestic pollution? All cars imported have to meet the same emission standards as American cars.

Higher corporate taxes? You mean GM paid corporate taxes while losing money? Last time I checked you can't pay taxes if you don't make any money building those economy cars that are loss leaders.......

High work force costs.....no arguement there.

 

[Ratickle]

Rat

The foreign carmakers didn't worry about CAFE since they didn't make any offenders the US was the sole producer of big trucks/SUV's. Toyota didn't offer a V8 or a full size truck until 4-5 years ago (first Tundra's were V6 mid size pickups). Honda has never made a V8 or a pick-up (their current Pilot with an open bed is more of a crossover). They never ran in the guzzler markets so never had to worry about the CAFE regs. The Big 3 got smacked by their own country's rules enacted by the people the unions put in place! In the 70's and 90's the Big 3 were building dinosaurs that became extinct in the popularity category. When they tried to fix it by building econoboxes they failed miserably (Pinto, Vega, Caddy Cimmaron)

Domestic pollution? All cars imported have to meet the same emission standards as American cars.

Higher corporate taxes? You mean GM paid corporate taxes while losing money? Last time I checked you can't pay taxes if you don't make any money building those economy cars that are loss leaders.......

High work force costs.....no arguement there.

We're getting close now.

Pollution is on the factory emmisions.

Corporate taxes is payroll, (the state taxes equipment in Michigan whether you make money or not), unemployment, FICA, etc. Highest taxes in the world for any corporation not making money. Then if you happen to make a profit?????

And, do not ever forget, it was basically illegal for an importer to send a pickup to the US until recently. That is why that was the last segment of the auto industry to be made wholly in the US. It was an excise tax similar to the one that protected Harley for years and years on 750cc and above.