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Great Moments in cat History-
- Thread starter T2x
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Ratickle
Founding Member / Super Moderator
1983 Douglas Michigan's Peter Hledin, owner of a small boat company building a full tunnel(no pickle forks) fibreglass version of the old "Dutchman" tunnel hull (descendant of the Schultz) hangs out at offshore races in nearby Saugatuck, Mi...and takes a lot of notes. Later he takes a clean sheet of paper and designs the remarkable 24' Skater....nimble, quick but a little fine in forward entry.....ahem! ..but back to the story.... Peter is a guy who Cat-ches on quickly.
Don't see anything about copied in there. The tunnel hull was a completely different design than the new 24' Skater. One was a tunnel racer, one was the first offshore baby cat.
On another note, Tom Earhart had that 24 with the Vdrive hooked to an outdrive with the monster motor and an overdrive trans.
Anybody know what happened to that boat?
Airpacker
New member
Have you ever seen an 18 skater? Not exactly an "offshore" boat is it?
Ratickle
Founding Member / Super Moderator
Come on Brownie, a little more input......
I absolutely love it when you guys (Icons) discuss the history of the sport and it's growth.
I'm still rooting for an opposite thread. You'd be one of the for-fathers.
Ideas in Cat/Vee History that were tried and proven not to be healthy for us.....:sifone:
smokeybandit
New member
T2x
Icon/Charter Member
In the early tunnel boat days... the first two original designs were the Schultz (from Austria) and the Molinari (from Italy) both made in wood with constant variations. Molinari licensed only two of his 18 and 21 foot designs (there were more designs later) to Glastron for the purpose of making fibreglass race hulls. These boats were somewhat successful on the race course...but not as fast as the wooden originals....nor could they be changed and updated as speeds increased. Their "Banana" shape carried the bow at a considerable height from the water to prevent stuffs which was a problem with the early Schultz's. Regardless, the Glastron Molinari's were quickly "popped" by at least three other builders (who shall remain nameless but two of them exist to this day.....originally out of Ohio) . Simultaneously, Don Aronow Licensed the 17 foot Schultz design for Magnum, which had nothing to do with Offshore and was, in fact, not a good pleasure....nor race...hull. At the same time Jan Schoonover of Lima Marine (also in Ohio...but not a "Pop") built an original 17 and 20 foot fibreglass hull based on an aluminum hull (Petty Craft) that was designed in cooperation with Mercury along the lines of the Schultz.....but not exactly. These variants also tended to stuff at racing speeds. A few years later, Peter Hledin took a blank sheet of paper and created an 18 foot pleasure tunnel boat. He liked the lower angle of attack of the Schultz, but also understood the need to get the bow out of the water for safety...so... he raised the attack angle and created much fuller...and original..... sponsons to carry a pleasure boat payload through a considerably wider....but more conservative speed range. In the end there was some Molinari, some Schultz, some Dutchman, and a lot of Hledin in the final product......but no "Splashing" or "Popping".
The issue is now and was then very simple.....
A true designer takes the current state of the art and a clean sheet of paper and advances it with a completely original plug or prototype.
A "Pop/splash" designer:
1. Can't design from scratch
2. Needs somebody else's hull (or part's thereof) to use as/in his plug...and steals the basic design.
Originally consumers bought "pops" because they were...frankly.... cheaper. The builders saved a bundle in the design process by swiping someone else's design. Now, however, like everything else in the New World Order, "spin" is everywhere, so consumers are more gullible and less discriminating. In many cases they have no history or experience watching hull evolution, and buy into the nonsense that "A Cat is a Cat", with no knowledge base to draw on to see clearly the symptoms of copying (Straight lines on the hull and deck and curves that do not tie in with each other...among others). They believe, for instance, that most West Coast cats (now deckboats) look alike... because of "geography" and not larceny.
There are basically 5 branches of the Offshore cat family tree:
- Cougar (Beard/Curtis)
- Shadow/Conquest (Linder/Luhrs)
- Skater (Hledin)
- Apache/Cuv/TenCara (Peters)
- Eliminator
While there have been forays into the arena by repected race boat builders like Ron Jones, Bill Seebold, and Renato Molinari, and Fabio Buzzi using original designs, few of these has spawned imitators nor have they created much volume in the marketplace. There are certainly other original exceptions to the above list, I'm sure, but these are the main sources IMHO.
T2x
Geronimo36
Charter Member
Where does the Talon fall into the mix??
Ratickle
Founding Member / Super Moderator
And Ocean Express?
If you don't want to go there on some of these, I understand.
And on the other note, is there someone out there today taking the;
Cougar (Beard/Curtis)
Shadow/Conquest (Linder/Luhrs)
Skater (Hledin)
Apache/Cuv/TenCara (Peters)
Eliminator
and combining those elements of all/some into testing for the future?
Nothing stands still........
T2x
Icon/Charter Member
Undoubtedly an original...... but low volume...and a center pod hull as I recall.
It also has not spawned "limbs" on the tree like the others.
Rich- maybe you can clear this up. I have a faint recollection of Talon having some relation to Maelstrom. And the design is so reminiscent of the Apache cat, but I can't recall if Peters was involved with Maelstrom.
Most of the Talon cats were built without the center pod. And OL is now making them
Ocean Express is an Active.
Geronimo36
Charter Member
T2x
Icon/Charter Member
That hull was originally spun off of a Cougar/Active Cat made in Detroit...I believe. For the record there is no "popping" in that lineage to my knowledge as the Active's were licensed by Cougar originally as far as I can remember.
And on the other note, is there someone out there today taking the;
Cougar (Beard/Curtis)
Shadow/Conquest (Linder/Luhrs)
Skater (Hledin)
Apache/Cuv/TenCara (Peters)
Eliminator
and combining those elements of all/some into testing for the future?
Nothing stands still........
Absolutely...... take a Skater...cut it up...make a mold....
The problem is that so much of the original development of these hulls occurred in the 70's and 80's and all of the knowledge regarding dynamics and past failures is resident in only a few minds. As a result many of the newer guys are simply redesigning the wheel..... with flat spots. I am amazed at the number of people who pass on guys with mountains of knowledge in favor of guys with great PR...
Today you have a handful of boat builders, crew chief/truckdrivers and turbine engine marinizers steering high budget racing programs. Do you really think these people are more knowledgeable than Alan Brown, George Linder,Richie Powers, Peter Hledin, Steve Curtis, Jerry Gilbreath, or Mike Peters?
T2x
T2x
Icon/Charter Member
Rich- maybe you can clear this up. I have a faint recollection of Talon having some relation to Maelstrom. And the design is so reminiscent of the Apache cat, but I can't recall if Peters was involved with Maelstrom.
Most of the Talon cats were built without the center pod. And OL is now making them
The original Maelstroms were designed by Mike Peters and built by John McCall (another true designer/builder who is greatly respected for his early tunnel and vee bottom OPC hulls in the 60's).
I don't think the Talon is a direct descendant...but it could be.
T2x
Icon/Charter Member
That's the guy.....good builder by the way.
Ratickle
Founding Member / Super Moderator
:rofl: :sifone: :rofl:
Got me rolling there.....
Friggin keyboard needs replacing too......
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