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The Great Unification
- Thread starter stevequick
- Start date
Ratickle
Founding Member / Super Moderator
That's what I'm trying to figure out. Who, and what, brought in the fans, racers, and tv. I still think all motorsports with something a serious fan can go buy will win in the long run.
My thoughts, still looking for all possible input (and I could still have it wrong).
F1 was the last, most popular and profitable, class. Prior to that, I think, was supercat when almost all engine builders were allowed. Prior to that was the Rich/Charlie/Betty drivers where almost every boat was a semi-modified general builder developing their line with racer input.
In common, like today's motocross, road race bikes, scca races. We could all reach that level of vehicle if we so chose.
And I still think F1 and F2 would have grown huge if they wouldn't have increased the speeds to where it was probably above what a non-canopied boat should run (and the other issue).
Just thinking outloud.
People can complain all they want about "bracket" classes. You can't tell from the beach. And boats running together is interesting. Especially when there's a bunch of them and you can tell they're racing each other. There were plenty of boats there that the average guy could buy and run. For less than a 10-year-old pleasure boat.
MOBILEMERCMAN
Founding Member / Competitor
The bracket class format works well. It allows boats of all ages and engine combos to compete. It is little surprise class 5 is so popular. I like when the class is all cats or v's better.
Races in the ocean are always better. The emphasis is on set up and ability and not just speed.
Races in the ocean are always better. The emphasis is on set up and ability and not just speed.
Sean Stinson
Founding Member/Contributor
Love it or hate it......Bracket Racing is here to stay and it is working!!!! So if it isn't broken don't fix it!!!!
Fever Mike
Charter Member
+1 and the Factory F1 and 2 classes had the closest and most competitive racing and biggest boat counts.
XtremeRacing
Competitor
If F1 was such great racing and the class was so big why arent boats still racing F1?? I tried for yrs and seems like no teams had any interest??
Steve Miklos
Charter Member / Competitor
Cost
I tried greatly to control cost through the rule book.
We started the Factory classes and truth be told. The original Factory class concept was a bomber motor with a claim not an HP 500. The thought was not everyone could deal with a bomber engine so the hp 500 carb was chosen instead. The rules were to be very simple rule 509 CI any intake all steel mercury wet cast iron exhaust $6K claim on engine.
The mistake the LLC made and you correctly identified is that when the hp 500 carb was being replaced we allowed the 500 EFI (speeds went up). Then guys started boring blueprinting them. We did get that under control. Unfortunately we later caved in to threats of Mercury Racing pulling sponsorship and allowed the 525 (speeds increased again). The 525 was the death of Factory class. Knowing what I know today we would of had the Mercury Racing continue building the carb motor or found another vendor as it was very easy replicate.
The Supercat guys voted for a cheaper sealed engine. In late 2001 Mike A. Ted Zoli and I presented a concept for a detuned 1075. The 1075 was due to be launched. We wanted a 800 +- HP ECM for the 1075 that was only available at Lake X or for scheduled test times (to control testing). The ECM would be controlled and only available at the race site and test sessions. The rest of times guys could run as 1075's for Poker Runs etc.
The plan was rejected which is kind of funny since they now have the 850 class. I think the hold up was the 1075 was not ready to ship. In the end we awarded the bid to Sterling and Mercury Racing organized the boycott.
Steve
I tried greatly to control cost through the rule book.
We started the Factory classes and truth be told. The original Factory class concept was a bomber motor with a claim not an HP 500. The thought was not everyone could deal with a bomber engine so the hp 500 carb was chosen instead. The rules were to be very simple rule 509 CI any intake all steel mercury wet cast iron exhaust $6K claim on engine.
The mistake the LLC made and you correctly identified is that when the hp 500 carb was being replaced we allowed the 500 EFI (speeds went up). Then guys started boring blueprinting them. We did get that under control. Unfortunately we later caved in to threats of Mercury Racing pulling sponsorship and allowed the 525 (speeds increased again). The 525 was the death of Factory class. Knowing what I know today we would of had the Mercury Racing continue building the carb motor or found another vendor as it was very easy replicate.
The Supercat guys voted for a cheaper sealed engine. In late 2001 Mike A. Ted Zoli and I presented a concept for a detuned 1075. The 1075 was due to be launched. We wanted a 800 +- HP ECM for the 1075 that was only available at Lake X or for scheduled test times (to control testing). The ECM would be controlled and only available at the race site and test sessions. The rest of times guys could run as 1075's for Poker Runs etc.
The plan was rejected which is kind of funny since they now have the 850 class. I think the hold up was the 1075 was not ready to ship. In the end we awarded the bid to Sterling and Mercury Racing organized the boycott.
Steve
Steve Miklos
Charter Member / Competitor
Ratickle
Founding Member / Super Moderator
I believe it was some untimely accidents with the speeds they were running in open boats. Plus some "cheating?" percieved or otherwise seemed to cause some manufacturer issues. Then the split hit.
Ratickle
Founding Member / Super Moderator
I was just talking from the standpoint of the Supercat "Cat Can Do" up here and their sponsorships went bye-bye from Baker and Torco when the Sterling engine won the bid.
Steve Miklos
Charter Member / Competitor
Cat Can Do was not active at that point. The Torco deal was fuel only. Mike A. and I personally paid for their new lowers and they never sent the old ones so we could recover any of our funds.
The fuel deals are necessary from a technical inspection and a commercial point of view. You need to have a fuel truck for the all out race engines at each event.
The Baker engine deal was what it was, As you saw with the Mercury teams and the guys getting free stuff do not care about the guys paying retail.
I think the real question is how many OSS events did Cat Can Do participate in?
Why so few?
Steve
Fever Mike
Charter Member
F1 and F2 were awesome. I was right there at the beginning of it all. I was at some of the Lake X Factory Class meetings, testing and If any of you remeber the old usnet news group rec.boats.racing.power you will know Miklos and Mike A were the founders of the class. I was also there during the highlite of F1 and F2 and F3 (cat class) as a crew member and a APBA Offical. The Hp500 carb was perfect for this class. The Hp500efi was working I thought but costs kept going up and up with the 500efi and then the 525efi. Each year Mercury was trying to bleed more from the racers for new engines. I always felt that was the real failure of Factory Class.
I had hoped that somehow it could have been figured out to go back to a HP500 carb engine but Mercury sponsorship money got in the way, but that money was needed to run the series plus ungrateful greedy racers with big wallets. Mercury did not have the vision to see how this series was the answer everyone was looking for. Plus not enough F1 and F2 racers new how to build an engine or had the money to hire someone. On top of that there was not enough APBA employees to work full time to make sure all these racer built and cared for HP500 engines were legal. Too many things working against the class I guess.
I had hoped that somehow it could have been figured out to go back to a HP500 carb engine but Mercury sponsorship money got in the way, but that money was needed to run the series plus ungrateful greedy racers with big wallets. Mercury did not have the vision to see how this series was the answer everyone was looking for. Plus not enough F1 and F2 racers new how to build an engine or had the money to hire someone. On top of that there was not enough APBA employees to work full time to make sure all these racer built and cared for HP500 engines were legal. Too many things working against the class I guess.
Ratickle
Founding Member / Super Moderator
I think once the Silver Series around here left, it was strictly a money issue. We went down to their last world's in 2002 with them. Then they ran in the Grand Haven race.
Last year they took it to St Clair but broke in practice. Were going to run in P1.
Saw Keith yesterday towing a 41 Skater on a tilt up 31 between Holland and Grand Haven heading north.
MOBILEMERCMAN
Founding Member / Competitor
F1 had similar issues as did F2.
As I recall there were a few things happening at once. The boats were evolving. Factories like Fountain and I think Donzi wanted staggered motors and canopies. The motors were evolving. It started as 500's then the EFI's came out. That in combination with other things mentioned began the decline. I raced F2 in 98' '99 '00 some in '01 by '03 it was nearly over. The nature progression brought canopy staggered 525's and it was called SuperV in '04.
Super V came and went quickly. Too much difference in hull efficiencies everyone scattered.
Steve Miklos
Charter Member / Competitor
That is incorrect. We had Super V and V lite with 525's or Vortecs in 2002 and on.
In 2004 it was simply a copy of the LLC under the OSS banner (less the Vortec).
Steve
Steve Miklos
Charter Member / Competitor
They were out before the engine debacle/boycott allthough Kieth was claiming he was going to race. I regret the fact that I convinced Mike to help them get the new lowers when they really could not run anywhere near a full schedule. Selling the lowers they were to return did not help me feel any better.
Steve
Ratickle
Founding Member / Super Moderator
I bet. Check your PM.
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