Wahoo 214
Charter Member
One of the problems I see that it is only a HP/Weight ratio. Not torque. You could build a torgue monster with big crank and down play the hp when building the motor. It would be killer on short or rough courses.
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Mercury Pulls The Plug??
- Thread starter Geronimo36
- Start date
One of the problems I see that it is only a HP/Weight ratio. Not torque. You could build a torgue monster with big crank and down play the hp when building the motor. It would be killer on short or rough courses.
Rik
Sponsor / Charter Member
This is exactly what Merc did with their 710 race engines for P1. It was basically an 850 (which is a net motor so more closely to a 925 hp motor) and then they remapped the boost by pass valve (think waste gate from the turbo days) and they controlled the boost to not make more than 740ish hp. Big torque as it had a lot of boost down low and limited hp as they bleed it off on top end.
Would have work great had it been reliable. They were popping faster than popcorn in an oil fire.
Does this work? NO. Why? Simple.
Example: Signor Miguel Hook has/had a 399 Skater with 525's that ran very successfully in America that he took to the P1 class and changed power and adjusted weight.
He by all accounts (it was on his U Tube Video) was running in the races at 110 mph possible faster in some that he did not post on the Internet.
Miguel put these new trick Merc engines in the boat. Added a ton (literally) to the boat and he does not reach the same race speeds as he did with the stock 525's. Acceleration was better but as the boost pulled back at the top end the engines could not pull the additional weight.
I might be wrong, but I feel he would have been more successful had he left the 525's in the boat, less weight and possible higher speeds. BUT he also might not have had the acceleration and might not have achieved a higher average speed than he achieved with the 710's due to the torque difference.
This year he is racing with CHIEF engines. Should be more reliable than the Merc.
As for your boat, the HP to weight rule is not a bad thing. One thing no one has brought to light is how much havic the weight played on the boats structurally in those ROUGH races in P1 last year. It is a different sea conditions than we have in the states racing.
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MOBILEMERCMAN
Founding Member / Competitor
Adding all that weight is bad in many respects. It is hard to secure. It is a safety nuisance. The boat will rapidly sink if swamped or damaged. Adding a couple hundred pounds is OK adding 1500 is crazy.
The 525 boats are plenty fast. Find a realistic weight and/or X restriction to make a Illmor and 525 even. Sure blowers are cool, but race not show off.
I have a question Rik, Is there a way to restrict or limit the heights on surface drives like spacers or a given X on 6's?
S
SHARKEY-IMAGES
Guest
I only prefer 711 for coffee....:sifone:
Thanks for all of the support in offshore that ILMOR has put forth.
Your product seems second to none.
Rik
Sponsor / Charter Member
Hell no. This is why they are called surface drives. No way to restrict it and there really is no formula on the #6's as each manufacturers likes something different so what they would use for a control would be great for the control boat and bad for the non control boat.
HP/lb is just that nothing more. Making some sort of technical handicap is not fair to manufactures. If the 6's are best buy them, if not buy something else.
Remember, competition is what is best not handicapping the best to be the same as the worst. You are starting to sound like OBAMA there Jim.:leaving:
MOBILEMERCMAN
Founding Member / Competitor
I am thinking about how to match the ILMORs and Arnesons. To 525 and 6's.
I am not familiar with the Ilmors to make a fair comparison. I am wondering if an existing Ilmor package can pair up with an existing Merc package like the 525 6 combo. I am not implying any comparison of drives just looking for ways to equalize different power options.
I am not familiar with the Ilmors to make a fair comparison. I am wondering if an existing Ilmor package can pair up with an existing Merc package like the 525 6 combo. I am not implying any comparison of drives just looking for ways to equalize different power options.
Rik
Sponsor / Charter Member
Ilmor and others for that matter, make an equivalent engine power to the Merc 525.
MOBILEMERCMAN
Founding Member / Competitor
Whats the deal with the new Indy drive? Is it something that could be used on a race boat.
Is there something you could post or link to that is or could potentially be a race package?
Whether it is with the Indy or Arneson?
Is there something you could post or link to that is or could potentially be a race package?
Whether it is with the Indy or Arneson?
H2O Full Throttle
New member
How about taking the ILMOR Indy Car engine and sticking it in an unlimited class raceboat, now that would be cool 
ThrottleUp Props
Sponsor / Charter Member
I would guess the big difference between the Ilmor and Merc 525 isn't so much the HP but the rpm difference.
The Ilmor 575 rev limiter is about 600 higher than the 525. This would allow the use of a prop 3" smaller in pitch with the same top end. Needless to say, assuming torque is similar, the Ilmor boat would accelerate better.
Personally I would like to see the allowed motor to be any motor with the same horsepower as a 525 with similar cubic inches. This would allow other motor manufacturers in the field. In cat lite any surface drive should be allowed, Weaisman, Merc, Ilmor, Arneson etc.
This would put pressure on engine and drive manufacturers to improve their product. Just like props, there is fierce competition/R & D with prop manufacturers to keep thier product on top. There were more prop manufacturers represented at the Key West race than any other industry. Only one motor manufacturer, Mercury.
Another huge benefit to the racers is competition brings prices down!!!! Racers pay less for props now than even 4 years ago since there are several manufactures making props now. A few years ago to be competative you had to pay whatever Hering wanted because there wasn't really a viable option.
While I hope Mercury can work things out and rebound I think this is really a great opportunity to get other marine manufacturers involved with racing. I know there are some manufactures who want to be involved with racing but have not been allowed due to rules. In the end it should be a win/win for both the racers and manufacturers.
The Ilmor 575 rev limiter is about 600 higher than the 525. This would allow the use of a prop 3" smaller in pitch with the same top end. Needless to say, assuming torque is similar, the Ilmor boat would accelerate better.
Personally I would like to see the allowed motor to be any motor with the same horsepower as a 525 with similar cubic inches. This would allow other motor manufacturers in the field. In cat lite any surface drive should be allowed, Weaisman, Merc, Ilmor, Arneson etc.
This would put pressure on engine and drive manufacturers to improve their product. Just like props, there is fierce competition/R & D with prop manufacturers to keep thier product on top. There were more prop manufacturers represented at the Key West race than any other industry. Only one motor manufacturer, Mercury.
Another huge benefit to the racers is competition brings prices down!!!! Racers pay less for props now than even 4 years ago since there are several manufactures making props now. A few years ago to be competative you had to pay whatever Hering wanted because there wasn't really a viable option.
While I hope Mercury can work things out and rebound I think this is really a great opportunity to get other marine manufacturers involved with racing. I know there are some manufactures who want to be involved with racing but have not been allowed due to rules. In the end it should be a win/win for both the racers and manufacturers.
MOBILEMERCMAN
Founding Member / Competitor
I basically agree. I think if the Ilmor can match up allow them in. I hate to see cat light get disrupted though. I agree other manufactures in the upper cat classes and super v is a plus.
I think before anyone attempts to tear down the all the merc spec classes some of these other Manufactures should step up and support in some way.
I hope Mercury can return soon. I also hope others take this opportunity to join in.
ThrottleUp Props
Sponsor / Charter Member
It would be sooooo sweet to hear several Ilmor powered boats racing. That would be second only to a Super Cat 750 screaming by at 7600 rpm.
ILMORdude
Sponsor / Charter Member
Or maybe there will be an ILMOR supercat engine? What about a 7600rpm V10?
ILMORdude
Sponsor / Charter Member
We were there "playin" in the P class with Fount. Worldwide
Ratickle
Founding Member / Super Moderator
I remember it. Sounded like the old supercat engines. Love that sound....
Sean H
Charter Member
build it, sponsor a team, bring a support rig, put up prize and contigency funds... you do that, I am sure race series will take it seriously.
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