The Great Unification

[Sean Stinson]

But it's still about the almighty dollar!!!!

 

[F1-00 Racing]

it would mean concessions that none of you want to make......

I'm not argueing Sean, but if Smitty is happy with his business and things are going the way his business plan dictates and the same for JC why would they need to make concessions? The last time I checked, I have the option of running OPA and the racers that primarily run with OPA have the option to run with SBI. But if I run with OPA are you saying that I shouldnt run under their rules and regulations? It doesnt make sense for Smitty to wave my fees just because I primarily race with SBI. If he was to do that then he should refund all the money to OPA primary racers cause whats good for the goose should be good for the gander.

In 2003 I was having a discussion with a current OPA racer and I think he summed it up best, "These guys out here that can't afford to race, shouldn't be racing" If you go into Outback Steakhouse with $5.00 in your pocket, are you going to be able to get the 16 ounce steak? Unless they might let you wash some dishes, I guess the answer is no.

My OPINION and nothing more, the racers need to quit whining that "oh woah is me, I cant afford that associations fees" and sit down and figure out what they can do to either work harder to be able to do it or figure out how to get a sponsor on board to assist with it. Everyone wants to point and blame everyone else/or expect handouts instead of looking in the mirror and being proactive and relying on themselves

The racers have choices and nobody has a gun to anyone's head. In society you get what you pay for, the same applies to offshore racing.

Trent

 

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

My OPINION and nothing more, the racers need to quit whining that "oh woah is me, I cant afford that associations fees" and sit down and figure out what they can do to either work harder to be able to do it or figure out how to get a sponsor on board to assist with it.

The racers have choices and nobody has a gun to anyone's head. In society you get what you pay for, the same applies to offshore racing.

Trent

Trent, It is not any one orgs fees. Its when you pay more than one that it becomes an issue. Everyone chooses there own personal schedule, some get more help then others in help. Some would race more if things were different. We raced all three orgs this year. Had a great time. If we were to go to Key West we would pay 3 years fees in one season.

It takes its toll.

 

[F1-00 Racing]

Trent, It is not any one orgs fees. Its when you pay more than one that it becomes an issue. Everyone chooses there own personal schedule, some get more help then others in help. Some would race more if things were different. We raced all three orgs this year. Had a great time. If we were to go to Key West we would pay 3 years fees in one season.

It takes its toll.

I agree, in this economy spending money on a hobby does and will take a toll. I beg of you though to go to McDonalds today and have lunch and then go to Burger King tomorrow and try to tell them that you ate McDonalds today so your meal at Burger King should be free.....

 

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

No, that is not my point. We just decide not to go.

We will just wait and see what the future brings for next season.

 

[Sean Stinson]

I'm not argueing Sean, but if Smitty is happy with his business and things are going the way his business plan dictates and the same for JC why would they need to make concessions? The last time I checked, I have the option of running OPA and the racers that primarily run with OPA have the option to run with SBI. But if I run with OPA are you saying that I shouldnt run under their rules and regulations? It doesnt make sense for Smitty to wave my fees just because I primarily race with SBI. If he was to do that then he should refund all the money to OPA primary racers cause whats good for the goose should be good for the gander.

In 2003 I was having a discussion with a current OPA racer and I think he summed it up best, "These guys out here that can't afford to race, shouldn't be racing" If you go into Outback Steakhouse with $5.00 in your pocket, are you going to be able to get the 16 ounce steak? Unless they might let you wash some dishes, I guess the answer is no.

My OPINION and nothing more, the racers need to quit whining that "oh woah is me, I cant afford that associations fees" and sit down and figure out what they can do to either work harder to be able to do it or figure out how to get a sponsor on board to assist with it. Everyone wants to point and blame everyone else/or expect handouts instead of looking in the mirror and being proactive and relying on themselves

The racers have choices and nobody has a gun to anyone's head. In society you get what you pay for, the same applies to offshore racing.

Trent

My remark wasn't really towards the racers in general but towards more of the people that told me to sit back and it would all fall into place....Trent I respect your opinion and have the utmost respect for Smitty and Augie as well as JC...I was just merely asking the question has racing moved forward, backward, or stayed the same since I pressed hard for an unification earlier this year!!!!! Just trying to get reading on what everyone's thoughts are!!!!

I agree with your statement about the racers and fee's 150%....It truly is an expensive sport and the fees are really just the tip of the iceberg!!!!!

As far as the money side of it I was targeting that more towards all of the incidentals and contingency money, prizes and purses.....stuff like that!!!

 

[F1-00 Racing]

Ok I did a little research and here is my proposal. Some feathers will get ruffled but it is backed up with my findings. The SVL class is what the numbers are based off of

OSS:
$2250 Equipment fee
$600 Rider fee=$300x2
$2850 Total=$950 per race based on the 3 race schedule of 2009

OPA:
$700 Equipment fee
$300 Rider fee=$150x2
$1000 Total=$166.67 per race based on the 6 race schedule of 2009

SBI:
$1500 Equipment fee
$700 Rider fee=$350x2
$2200 Total=$244.44 per race based on the 9 race schedule of 2009

Ok that being said, OSS accepts it fate and closes its doors and the two teams that have remained loyal follow the others and race elsewhere. Everyone shows up in KW and pays the 2200 to SBI and based off past history of Smitty being there, pay him 1000 for OPA. This totals $3200. Now the racers have a choice of 15 races to chose from and dont have to worry about fees. It breaks down to an average of $213.33 per race fee avg in that scenario. In essence, for a meesley $350 more you now have the option of running in 12 more races than before and fees arent an issue. Simple economics.

Here's my disclaimer. I have nothing against those that chose to race with OSS, I in fact was very interested and made several calls, but made my decision not to race there as it was admitted to me directly by the preseident that OSS only had 2 "confirmed" race sites at the time of inquirey. But to end up the season with only 3 races, on your own as big boys and not having to piggy back on other associations sites, come the heck on. Wouldnt it be easier to let the ones that have proven that they can get sites and KEEP them to have the headaches to where all you have to do is show up and race. Also stability, since 2004(the official start of OSS) OSS has had 3 presidents, OPA has had 1 and SBI 1. You tryed, we commend you, you have two loyal teams left, 3 race sites and thats about it. I am in no way bashing OSS, just stating FACTS.

In these tough economic times we all have choices and just as Jim said "We decide not to go" I'm right with ya, I chose to sit out and one of the many lessons I have learned by sitting out, Offshore racing goes on w/o me. And I am sure Offshore has not suffered any great loss with me sitting out.

OK, done, bring the Trent bashing on, I have my big boy pants on.....

Trent

 

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

Trent,
There are many sitting and waiting for various reasons. Like I said I enjoy racing where I can. I appreciate the opportunity to race with and meet everyone as well visiting with my friends at each orgs events.

I wouldn't even attempt to claim I know about who is loyal with who. I am surprised you claim to know and counted 2 teams. Your reference to loyalty brings up a whole other conversation which may be better left unopened. I will only say I am loyal to racing.

I am not ashamed to say I prefer racing with OSS. Contrary to your belief It is still hanging on and I hope they will continue. I am looking forward to next weekends races and to seeing my friends that will be attending.

I don't want to bash you or anyone. I have done what I could do....I chose to race. I hope I can continue in the future.

 

[XtremeRacing]

My remark wasn't really towards the racers in general but towards more of the people that told me to sit back and it would all fall into place....Trent I respect your opinion and have the utmost respect for Smitty and Augie as well as JC...I was just merely asking the question has racing moved forward, backward, or stayed the same since I pressed hard for an unification earlier this year!!!!! Just trying to get reading on what everyone's thoughts are!!!!

I agree with your statement about the racers and fee's 150%....It truly is an expensive sport and the fees are really just the tip of the iceberg!!!!!

As far as the money side of it I was targeting that more towards all of the incidentals and contingency money, prizes and purses.....stuff like that!!!

As for you being told to sit back and thing will fall into place you should go back to that person and find out if things are falling into place.

As for your question of things moving forward if you are asking me I would say yes. You have two strong but entirely different org. left standing and I think that right now is better for the sport. SBI has a great and solid Schedule with some major media cities, Best Medical in the business, Purse, and Net Work TV coverage. Boat count is slowly getting better and u r starting to see some new faces in SBI. For sure it will take time but slow and stead is always good thing it will not change over nite. If you look back at OPA over the yrs their growth was slow but sure yr after yr. You have teams like Geico, WHM, Lucas Oil, that are commited .

I think with some of the European Class1 boat in KW this yr you will see the Super Cat class stronger then ever and building from there. So to answer your question yes I think some good things have happen the last few months. But again it will take time and will build slow and sure, and remember quantity is not always better then quality.

 

[F1-00 Racing]

Trent,

I am not ashamed to say I prefer racing with OSS. Contrary to your belief It is still hanging on and I hope they will continue. I am looking forward to next weekends races and to seeing my friends that will be attending.

And with this being America(at least for the time being) you have that right/privledge. As you said "it is still hanging on" You have 3 races which if you have 6-10 races you wouldnt be forced to race anywhere else due to your love of racing and then complain and/or whine that you shouldnt have to pay the fees of the other group cause your a racer with another group. Again I remind you of the McDonalds/BK scenario. Let me rephrase, you want to do your own thing @ BK and go over and get the happy meal treat(CBS) over @ McDonalds for nothing. But I do have to give you and George credit. You showed up in Sarasota and raced for nothing and I didnt have that privledge. Maybe I should have sent in my paperwork to OSS and registered Pro/AM(which if I remember right is free this year) and showed up in Sarasota and showed JC that I was registered as OSS and raced for nothing. But then again I couldnt do that to him or fellow racers/friends that I respect(and have paid the proper fees) When I go to McDonalds I expect to pay for my meals as well as Burger King. There is no such thing as a free lunch.


I merely made a proposal, is it a good one, I dunno, will it work, yes I feel it will if we as racers do it and stick with it. Dont get your panties in a ruffle that I stated facts about the association that you chose to race with. Truth is I can knock every association down based on facts, as I have said time and time again that ALL groups have fleas. You chose OSS as your base of choice, great, I make my choices off of simple economics and where can I race w/o complaining and/or whining about not being able to afford the others. If you chose to pay 2850 in order to run 3 races, then you know what, thats your choice, but I would much rather pay 3200 to be able to race 15. Thats just me and my stupid southern logic, but more importantly, my choice.

 

[imco offshore]

trent those numbes are sweet but not accurate at all after you pay oss those fees posted you still pay 1500 each race to enter.....after you pay sbi those fees posted you still pay 1075 each race to enter, here is the clear winner after you pay opa those fees posted YOU DON.T PAY ANOTHER PENNY AND WIN SOME OF THE BIGGEST PURSES IN OFFSHORE TODAY, so you have to ask yourself how does he do that. ?? that my friend is where a better business plan comes in, and his bright furture. economy doesen,t play a factor in his series, opa has proved that it CAN BE DONE ?

 

[imco offshore]

And with this being America(at least for the time being) you have that right/privledge. As you said "it is still hanging on" You have 3 races which if you have 6-10 races you wouldnt be forced to race anywhere else due to your love of racing and then complain and/or whine that you shouldnt have to pay the fees of the other group cause your a racer with another group. Again I remind you of the McDonalds/BK scenario. Let me rephrase, you want to do your own thing @ BK and go over and get the happy meal treat(CBS) over @ McDonalds for nothing. But I do have to give you and George credit. You showed up in Sarasota and raced for nothing and I didnt have that privledge. Maybe I should have sent in my paperwork to OSS and registered Pro/AM(which if I remember right is free this year) and showed up in Sarasota and showed JC that I was registered as OSS and raced for nothing. But then again I couldnt do that to him or fellow racers/friends that I respect(and have paid the proper fees) When I go to McDonalds I expect to pay for my meals as well as Burger King. There is no such thing as a free lunch.


I merely made a proposal, is it a good one, I dunno, will it work, yes I feel it will if we as racers do it and stick with it. Dont get your panties in a ruffle that I stated facts about the association that you chose to race with. Truth is I can knock every association down based on facts, as I have said time and time again that ALL groups have fleas. You chose OSS as your base of choice, great, I make my choices off of simple economics and where can I race w/o complaining and/or whining about not being able to afford the others. If you chose to pay 2850 in order to run 3 races, then you know what, thats your choice, but I would much rather pay 3200 to be able to race 15. Thats just me and my stupid southern logic, but more importantly, my choice.

trent i might be lost on this one ,,, but i gave someone at sbi 1475.00, for the day, i,m not complaining,, but you make it sound like the svl came begging to race ,, the fact was we were lobbied to come, and some consessions were made , and i worked hard to get the others to come down, as for cbs with geico big turbine, and jc,s 3 super v,s who else do you really think cbs is going to air ,,, ps sponsors know this?

 

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

Trent, I wish not to argue with you. You sure have a lot to say while sitting on the side lines.

Please don't call me a whiner. We paid we raced.

 

[XtremeRacing]

Come on guys here we go again, nothing good will come from mud slinging. The only way things will get better is if we work together. We r back to the same BS .

 

[F1-00 Racing]

trent i might be lost on this one ,,, but i gave someone at sbi 1475.00, for the day, i,m not complaining,, but you make it sound like the svl came begging to race ,, the fact was we were lobbied to come, and some consessions were made , and i worked hard to get the others to come down, as for cbs with geico big turbine, and jc,s 3 super v,s who else do you really think cbs is going to air ,,, ps sponsors know this?

Ok great you paid $1475, with that being fact, how come you didnt get points or purse? I would be complaining on that regard as that is a legitimate complaint. I reviewed the SVL thread and I only saw a question if SVL was coming and then yourself and Bruce made inquires with Frank as to how it would work if you came, ummm I dont call that lobbying, but I will pull my Websters out and look "lobbied" up. Yes you did work hard to bring everyone down. Simply put, a question was asked, you did your homework, you showed, you raced.

In the below link of the current CBS footage broadcast, I see Panasonic, Geico, Aqua Mania, Stihl SS, Micosukee SS, and P5-4 "Just Pray". Didnt look like Geico/SVU show to me and that was just approx 1 minute of footage. Having Geico in NYC behind the studio was the smart business move to make, as having a major sponsor shown could possibly attract more major sponsors. Time will tell. But will the big boats be the focus of the broadcast, probally 25 of the availible 42 minutes yes. They should be.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPzXGHx-no8&feature=player_embedded

 

[F1-00 Racing]

sorry Frank, didnt see your post, your absolutly right

 

[Ratickle]

Same story, different chapter?:sifone:

I don't think Trent knew about the single race fee program worked out with SBI for Sarasota. Frankly, I'm glad for all those who did work hard to make that happen. Gave me hope for the future that different offshore groups can come together to improve an event.

I really think that a lot of the big picture is being overlooked. The question to me is, are there more boats racing two years ago total than there were 10 years ago? Are there more racers having their way paid to race a couple years ago than then? Were more manufacturers on board? Were the race sites paying the orgs more money to see their show? Was there more TV coverage of the races? The number of TV stations was also at record level highs and you could watch dang near anything live.

I really think you have to throw out the last year to year and a half because of the economic turndown. But, how was 2 years ago to 5 or 10 years ago? There was a record number of high performance boats sold two years ago compared to ten years ago. Record money spent in the boating industry etc.

With a 30 percent economic turndown you expect less paid and sponsored teams now vs two years ago. But, 2 years ago should have been the absolute peak of teams, races, orgs, TV, etc. If it wasn't, (and I know the answer), why????? Can it be identified and fixed?

And, it will take all involved to do it. I really think saying what it is is what it is will not improve anything. Whether it's 19 boats in New York or 17 boats in Michigan City is still not a good thing for fans or sponsors.

Anyway, trying to come up with improvements based on history, foresight, and experience is not a waste of time in my opinion. If every racer made a point of racing every org at least once to see the Good, Bad, and Ugly of all. Maybe you could chat with each other and come up with something to go forward with continuous improvement for all.

 

[AugiePensa]

trent those numbes are sweet but not accurate at all after you pay oss those fees posted you still pay 1500 each race to enter.....after you pay sbi those fees posted you still pay 1075 each race to enter, here is the clear winner after you pay opa those fees posted YOU DON.T PAY ANOTHER PENNY AND WIN SOME OF THE BIGGEST PURSES IN OFFSHORE TODAY, so you have to ask yourself how does he do that. ?? that my friend is where a better business plan comes in, and his bright furture. economy doesen,t play a factor in his series, opa has proved that it CAN BE DONE ?

George, I had heart bypasses, I'm not dead yet! I still make The Offers :beatdeadhorse5eople Can't Refuse. Brown Paper Bags, ect. If everyone knew how to do it EVERYONE would have a racing association.:sifone: Everybody is hurting, times are real tough. I know if I weren't fuc$ed up this year I don't think I would have been able to race because business is off. Guy's, Race where ever you want to race and where you get the best bang for your $$$$$$$$$.

 

[2TR]

I cant believe I re-read this post .... :willy_nilly:

 

[XtremeRacing]

Augie,
It was great to see you when we were in NY, good to see you are doing so well. Just take it slow and time will heal all, just dont over do it. You are going to need your strenth for KW :))