The Economy

LaughingCat

New member
I want to cut through the partisan politics and find out how each of us is doing.

Things have certainly declined for me and my family. We live below our means and are not blowing money like hot shots. We have been fortunate to not have any debt. So we are simply cutting back. Some of our friends are in dire straits. In fact, some of our family members are in a bind too. But you can't bail everyone out or risk sinking your own ship.

I firmly believe we are going to get through this tough time. The saying goes, "it's always darkest before the dawn." We are going to get more bad news, but everyone is expecting it. We will hear about banks buried under defaulting credit card customers (boo hoo), more mortgages defaulting and such. But I expect Congress to change the tax codes allowing abnks to forgive portions of defaulted loans, allowing home owners to sell without incurring phantom income. Many people wont like that, but we have to get things moving.

Then we'll start hearing good things, like existing home sales are rising (because sellers are accepting lower prices), banks are lending, people are spending money on entertainment items, etc. With existing home sales rising, we will have a market, then banks can use those decreased market prices to revalue their mortgages which have been written down to zero. Thus, magically recapitalizing banks. Then banks can start sending TARP money back to the government. We, of course, assume the politicians will retire debt created for the TARP program. But far be it from a politican to spend cash in their hands on their constituents.

Maybe I'm an optimist, but we've all made money being positive, not negative. The Dark Side cannot win forever, things will change. One good thing that will come of this is the end of the bubble-bust economic cycle. We are forming the fourth and final bubble right now - bond market. When it busts, we should see 'slow and steady wins the race' economic growth.

Anyone have thoughts, contradictory insight or a story to share?
 
It's going to be tough-going for certain, and it's going to hurt. However, I firmly believe that it will end before too long, and we'll see some good come of it. I call it a cleansing, if you will, an adjustment back to reality. Things have become way too over-inflated and artificial this past decade or so, we need this adjustment.
 
I too agree that if everyone acts prudently in their own house that a changed mind set will bring relief faster.

Worried though that the name calling and partisan politics will get in the way.
Seems that a bunch of people think the president is going home and dreaming up these rescue packages on his own and we end up with a ton of stone throwing and partisan name calling.
I think he has reached across party lines, industry lines and is having whatever they come up with come from economists that have only the best interests of the country in mind.
This grief wasn't brought to us by Republicans or Democrats; it was brought on by sloppy controls within the banking,oil and investment industry whereby a group of pigs bent all the rules and with unfettered greed raped the public.
Time to stick together and fix the rules and get back on track.
I wish all of us on this board the strength and fortitude to get through all this and come out the other end stronger than ever albeit lightly scarred.
Good luck to all.
 
I was at my bank this week and ran into two people that do real estate developments. They told me that they and other people with the money are waiting for the government to get out and they will start buying. So if the government stays in these people will stay out, if the President and congress would announce they are not passing any stimulus bill the market would hit bottom fast and come out just as fast.
 
It's going to be tough-going for certain, and it's going to hurt. However, I firmly believe that it will end before too long, and we'll see some good come of it. I call it a cleansing, if you will, an adjustment back to reality. Things have become way too over-inflated and artificial this past decade or so, we need this adjustment.

I agree with respect to the cleansing. Things were too eay for a while and this type of a correction will weed out the weak. That said, I am involved in four different businesses; diversity right. Well unfortunately, all four are taking hits right now, I never imagined that could happen. All four should survive, but it is painfull; particularly when it comes to reducing labor.

Personally I have significantly more cash than debt, so I can go on without cutting back, but only under the assumption that things will stabalize in the next couple of years. Although I believe things will turn within the next 12 months, I am preparing for the downside and have been reducing expenses accordingly as I am now cash flow negative. Fortunately that does not include a reduction in my fleet; sorry no fire sales here. My real dilemma is; do I pay off some of the debt to get to cash flow positive or invest while I can buy low and hope I can make some hay in the turn around. I'll probably balance that equation, but its been eating at me bad. Cash is king right now and I believe there are many opportunities that will present themselves.
 
There are so many people waiting to see how much of this pork laden bill is going to survive before they make a move. The people that control the real money in this country by and large tend to be conservative and do not believe government is the answer to all ills. If it all goes through, they will adjust accordingly, and possibly send money offshore which will prolong the agony. If some semblance of sanity can be forced into this monstrosity and the business cycle can be allowed to return to normal, they will move their money back into the market and the economy will begin to expand again. The president actually took a pass (again) and allowed San Fran Nan and the least popular congress ever to come up with this piece of trash which is why it is so bad. If it flies they will own it, and the backlash in 2010 when this recession is still going on will be swift and sure .
 
I think he (Obama) has reached across party lines, industry lines and is having whatever they come up with come from economists that have only the best interests of the country in mind.QUOTE]

Apparently Obama's "reaching across the aisle" is a myth...just more lip service:

Couric: But Sen. McCain, hasn't President Obama tried to do just that, reach across the aisle, go up to Capitol Hill, invite Republicans to the White House to get this thorough. I know he's consulted you on several occasions hasn't he?

McCain: Well, look I appreciate what the president has done, talking to House Republicans and Senate Republicans but there hasn't been the negotiations to start with. Second of all, it passed. They passed it through the House without consultation with the Republicans and over here in the Senate, they have rejected all of the particular amendments that Republicans had proposed. So we need to walk the walk as well as talk the talk here.
 
I think he (Obama) has reached across party lines, industry lines and is having whatever they come up with come from economists that have only the best interests of the country in mind.QUOTE]

Apparently Obama's "reaching across the aisle" is a myth...just more lip service:

Couric: But Sen. McCain, hasn't President Obama tried to do just that, reach across the aisle, go up to Capitol Hill, invite Republicans to the White House to get this thorough. I know he's consulted you on several occasions hasn't he?

McCain: Well, look I appreciate what the president has done, talking to House Republicans and Senate Republicans but there hasn't been the negotiations to start with. Second of all, it passed. They passed it through the House without consultation with the Republicans and over here in the Senate, they have rejected all of the particular amendments that Republicans had proposed. So we need to walk the walk as well as talk the talk here.

I hear ya but isnt half of that waving his party's flag again.
Hasn't a lot of the original ideas for whatevers in there come from conservatives in the first place.
I read on here about the government standing back and letting the weak falter and the strong survive and when its all done the country comes out stronger.
Doesn't everyone think that with no gov. interjection that the pigs that caused some of this would still be screwing the public ??
How do you stop whole communities like Peoria and the town that lived off DHL from completely imploding if you don't throw emergency money at these topics.?
I would never ever move to a community that relied so much on one employer. Disasterous.
My .02 .04 Canadian
 
The local news paper interviewed me a couple of weeks ago.They asked what we needed to do to get some positive movment out of the economy.I told him to shut down CNN and all the 24/7 news channels for a few weeks.Very few of them ever report good news,if someone tells you you're sick enough times,you start to feel sick.If you are told how bad it is every day 40 times a day,you hide your money and tuck your tail.Give us some good news and make the people feel good and want to spend some money.By the way,that part did'nt make the paper.
 
The local news paper interviewed me a couple of weeks ago.They asked what we needed to do to get some positive movment out of the economy.I told him to shut down CNN and all the 24/7 news channels for a few weeks.Very few of them ever report good news,if someone tells you you're sick enough times,you start to feel sick.If you are told how bad it is every day 40 times a day,you hide your money and tuck your tail.Give us some good news and make the people feel good and want to spend some money.By the way,that part did'nt make the paper.

AGREED 1000%
FCKN CNN makes its own news out of non events.
How many fckn times did I watch the DO-OVER of Obama's swearing in ceremony?!!!!!!!!
 
Anybody watch Obamas speach last night ? He set me straight on that whole "Reaching across the aisle" thing..I still had some hope until I watched that
 
We've been going thru tough times since August. For our construction company there has been no work out there. What is out there, we can't get on bid lists basicly because there are already too many bidders. Thankfully our company is debt free but it certainly isn't flush with cash. I'm not sure what will happen but we have been just holding on. I remain hopeful things turn around but we have been experiencing the bad part of it for a long time.
 
Hasn't a lot of the original ideas for whatevers in there come from conservatives in the first place.

Please name one.

Obama said last night in his speech that he would welcome ideas from the Republicans if they were new, but specifically said "Don't bring me the same old tired ideas". What he was referring to is tax cuts. IMHO I do NOT think the tax cuts are the cause of the problem. In fact I believe it is just the opposite; OVERSPENDING and a lack of regulation in the banks and markets. I do not think more spending and a larger deficit will help unless that spending is for shovel-ready construction related work which will put and keep millions working. Regan proved that tax cuts do stimulate, and as I've said before if they'd do a FICA holiday for a period of time it will increase every payroll check by 7.5% and at the same time reduce every employers payroll by 7.5%.
 
Anybody watch Obamas speach last night ? He set me straight on that whole "Reaching across the aisle" thing..I still had some hope until I watched that

I watched it and was completely disgusted. He was mocking the Republicans at spa retreat paid for by the taxpayers no less. He said something like, "What do you think a stimulus is. It’s spending — that's the whole point! Then he starts laughing. Some leader...what a joke.

Azzhats, it's the spending that caused the problem. Do any of you recall during the Bush years any Democratic opposition to the spending bills?
 
It is tough times here in SW Florida, the metal roofing and accessories company I work for is laying off a few guys this week, I am pounding the phones and faxes but it is the same response all day long there is no work right now. My fiance and I have a bid in on a house for a hell of a deal, but I am worried about closing and then getting laid off again, we cannot survive on her teaching salary. I would love to buy a house but I am nervous as hell about whether it is a good idea right now, what happens if it gets worse and I would lose my job?
 
as I've said before if they'd do a FICA holiday for a period of time it will increase every payroll check by 7.5% and at the same time reduce every employers payroll by 7.5%.

I agree, and I support a reduction in the rate over the long term. And they can offset the revenue reduction by raising the cap on the employee side.
 
I watched it and was completely disgusted. He was mocking the Republicans at spa retreat paid for by the taxpayers no less. He said something like, "What do you think a stimulus is. It’s spending — that's the whole point! Then he starts laughing. Some leader...what a joke.

Azzhats, it's the spending that caused the problem. Do any of you recall during the Bush years any Democratic opposition to the spending bills?

actually Tommy, the republican retreat was paid for by lobbyists.. the dem retreat this weekend to williamsburg is bankrolled by the american taxpayer.

Rumor has it that the exuc 500k payroll is going to make the people wanting money to back down, or not take any more. supposedly it isnt retro on citi/aig and others unless they come back with their hand out. if that is correct, we shall see what happens.
 
I personally know 3 people that lost jobs this week that were making close to a 100 a year with no hope of finding another one for half that. Many are phuked out there.
 
Belt is very tight out there for most of the people I know...

A lot of big money out there is just on the sidelines biting at the bit for a chance to get back in the game. Sooner the Gov't quits shoring these losers up, the sooner they will fail and the sooner the big money will get back in the game and that is the only way we will can start on the road to recovery.

We got 4 years of that not happening and then another 2 once Palin takes over for her to get it turned around..

:biggrinjester:
 
its not going to just turn around we have been running like a wounded engine everyone hoping we make it back to port then rebuild it(always the future generation will save us) but after generations of doing this no one rebuilt it! you can use all the starting fluid you want but its a dead horse we have been an organ donor way too long and now can,t sustain our selfs! darn near everything was sold to be produced overseas and shipped back to us and its even worse our power and gas(national grid) is owned by a over seas company even bud the former king of beer is now foreign owned i would slap a 50 percent tariff on anything not manufactured here in the USA i would build 100 nuke plants and make electric free to every us citizen and business!(that would kick start things again) does anyone realize the stimilus money they are gifting to each other is borrowed from china? we just lost 2 more big companies around here syracuse china and mangna power train and this is happining in every town...... ahhhhh my two cents
 
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