Setback for Reggie?

[2112]

What did he do to you?

Well for me...He sold me a custom ordered boat that was built so damn bad we spent 18 months arguing about it, Then he tows it across the country to put a Maaco paint job on the deck and calls it even.

I spent 2 years and $35,000 replacing crap stringers, bulkheads and internal fiberglass. Not one piece of plywood was marine grade, had to replace particle board where ply should be, every joint between stringers and bulkheads were filled with air (no radiused edges) and quite a bit of the deck was paper thin (gelcoat and one layer of woven glass). The cabinet frame was pulled off the hull with one tug of my right hand! Have you seen the way they run wiring and cables from the bilge to the helm?

THIS WAS IN A NEW BOAT!

Bayliner has better build criteria.

Oh, I am am not one slamming him for his personal stuff. Nor am I gleeful about his financial woes.
.

 

[Smarty]

I believe Cig has gone through two BK's...What's your point? I can tell you this...The owners that BK'd Cig are NO LONGER THERE! I wouldn't bring up the BK of another company that actually got rid of the person that BK'd it and moved onward and upward.

However, I've read RF’s direct quote (as a matter of fact I believe it was in an interview with Matt) that he's never gone BK when others have...Bragging as usual. Guess he can't use that bullsh!t line anymore. Now if he'll take out the lie that his boats are the fastest, safest, best handling boats on the water we'll be getting somewhere.

I don’t cheer and am not happy that Fountain Powerboats went BK. But I was happy that this might be the time to get rid of RF and have someone come in that would actually run the company.

Walking away from a 20million debt hurts the economy, hurts the bank that has to eat it, hurts the insurance that has to cover it and in the long run this type of reckless business practice hurts everyone and only goes to help the **** poor shape this economy is in.

I don't know...hard to give due respect to someone that walks away from their accountability and responsibility, runs a business into the ground while trying to boost his own ego all the while leaving employees with out a paycheck. The respect I did hold for RF for his accomplishents just went out the window when he stole money from the bank and used BK as a cop-out to do so.

Standing on your past accomplishments does not void you of the need to be held accountable.

To quote Sir Josiah Stamp:

"It is easy to dodge our responsibilities, but we cannot dodge the consequences of dodging our responsibilities."

Fountain Powerboats to be left in the hands of the man that bankrupt it…I say to the employee’s… GOOD LUCK!

I don't buy that response. You are correct in that we as individuals, or a company are responsible for our actions. But his creditors, gave him a credit line, and they took the risk. He did not steal money, the bank took risk, the economy tanked, and now he has to payback some of the amount that was borrowed. He was in business for 26+ years and I thought made a great contribution to performance boating, maybe the ego did catch up with him in the end, but the bank did not have to make the loan if they were uncomfortable, and creditors could have made their terms COD, not 30 days, or longer. You may not like it, but that is the cost of doing business, it is called risk.

 

[Indy]

You may not like it, but that is the cost of doing business, it is called risk.

I think it's called being prudent. I know plenty of businesses that keep it close to the vest, they're still around today. I know others that hang it out there, they're having problems.

In the end, you don't have to eat that donut that's dangled in front of your face even though it's legal. Maybe if all the morons that purchased real estate the past decade knowing that it was "free money" and they were pushing the boundaries of their financial limits actually used their heads we wouldn't be in half this mess we're in now. You play you pay.

 

[Tank]

I don't buy that response. You are correct in that we as individuals, or a company are responsible for our actions. But his creditors, gave him a credit line, and they took the risk. He did not steal money, the bank took risk, the economy tanked, and now he has to payback some of the amount that was borrowed. He was in business for 26+ years and I thought made a great contribution to performance boating, maybe the ego did catch up with him in the end, but the bank did not have to make the loan if they were uncomfortable, and creditors could have made their terms COD, not 30 days, or longer. You may not like it, but that is the cost of doing business, it is called risk.

Yea, you can rest on the "Cost of doing business" cop out and blame it on the banks for lending the money in the first place. But really, all youre doing is shifting responsability and in the end rf's true integrity and self worth shows through in flying colors! Dont try to blame others when you've defaulted. Don't push the responsablity off on those
youve promised to pay. Jesus, go back and read your post! Have you ever had to be responsible for something? Have you ever had someone default on you. There's no blame game. Just Basic deuchebaggery and the same thought process that has lead this country into the financial crapper. He gets away with others money...bottom line. And guess who pays in the long run...those owed money need to recoup their finances somehow. Guess how that's done. Raising rates. That means we pay more in the long run for tour boy Reggie running out on his bill....example: fountain owes a million in payment to mercury but just skated on it in bk. Mercury claims it as a loss and raises their prices to recoup the coin over the next few years. Go take an economics course and maybe you won't stick up for this fu
*ckin loser!

 

[Slandrew]

Yea, you can rest on the "Cost of doing business" cop out and blame it on the banks for lending the money in the first place. But really, all youre doing is shifting responsability and in the end rf's true integrity and self worth shows through in flying colors! Dont try to blame others when you've defaulted. Don't push the responsablity off on those
youve promised to pay. Jesus, go back and read your post! Have you ever had to be responsible for something? Have you ever had someone default on you. There's no blame game. Just Basic deuchebaggery and the same thought process that has lead this country into the financial crapper. He gets away with others money...bottom line. And guess who pays in the long run...those owed money need to recoup their finances somehow. Guess how that's done. Raising rates. That means we pay more in the long run for tour boy Reggie running out on his bill....example: fountain owes a million in payment to mercury but just skated on it in bk. Mercury claims it as a loss and raises their prices to recoup the coin over the next few years. Go take an economics course and maybe you won't stick up for this fu
*ckin loser!

Go get a job at AIG I don't think the guys name was Jesus that posted that!Oh yea what whould your buisness plan be to survive??it whould be sink by the way your talking!Don't be a player hater it's not nice:sifone:

 

[Smarty]

Yea, you can rest on the "Cost of doing business" cop out and blame it on the banks for lending the money in the first place. But really, all youre doing is shifting responsability and in the end rf's true integrity and self worth shows through in flying colors! Dont try to blame others when you've defaulted. Don't push the responsablity off on those
youve promised to pay. Jesus, go back and read your post! Have you ever had to be responsible for something? Have you ever had someone default on you. There's no blame game. Just Basic deuchebaggery and the same thought process that has lead this country into the financial crapper. He gets away with others money...bottom line. And guess who pays in the long run...those owed money need to recoup their finances somehow. Guess how that's done. Raising rates. That means we pay more in the long run for tour boy Reggie running out on his bill....example: fountain owes a million in payment to mercury but just skated on it in bk. Mercury claims it as a loss and raises their prices to recoup the coin over the next few years. Go take an economics course and maybe you won't stick up for this fu
*ckin loser!

Funny you said I should take an economics course. I have taken Macro and Micro Economics. I have taken MBA courses, and and have a Juris Doctorate too, so I have answered that question that you asked. I am an Attorney (criminal practice), though I do not practice Bankruptcy Law. Flying colors (an insult) you also wrote in regards to Reggie Fountain but since I defended him the extension is that my, "Smarty's Flying Colors" are also shown? With that said, I do forgive you if that was a backdoor/indirect insult. You seem very passionate on this topic, and I am not that passionate about this topic.

I did not write the Bankruptcy laws, they have been in place for many, many years..Chapter 7, Chapter 11, and Chapter 13.

link to Chapter 11 ( I read in a previous post that the Fountain Bankrupcty was Chapter 11, maybe this will help some of the members of this website understand what is going on in Bankruptcy law and rules).

http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/usc.cgi?ACTION=BROWSE&title=11usc

And to answer your question "have I ever had to be responsible for something?" Yes, I was convicted of DWI (drunk driving). And to answer your other question, " have I had anybody default on me?" I have had many a client not pay me in full (or at all), and I got over it. It was the risk of doing business. And since you typed Jesus, I do believe in God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit. I am a forgiving type of guy (I am a Christian/Catholic).

I get the impression that even if Fountain was not in Bankruptcy your opinion and comments of him would remain the same, you just seem very angry. We are all entitled to our opinion(s), and my opinion on this matter is different from your opinion. I will not engage in a debate/argument over Reggie Fountain and or Fountain Boats, it is not that important to me. Watching the Eagles and Phillies play today and tonight is important to me.

Have a good day, I will not respond after this post, PM me if you have further questions or comments regarding my response. Stephen

 

[Ratickle]

Funny you said I should take an economics course. I have taken Macro and Micro Economics. I have taken MBA courses, and and have a Juris Doctorate too, so I have answered that question that you asked. I am an Attorney (criminal practice), though I do not practice Bankruptcy Law. Flying colors (an insult) you also wrote in regards to Reggie Fountain but since I defended him the extension is that my, "Smarty's Flying Colors" are also shown? With that said, I do forgive you if that was a backdoor/indirect insult. You seem very passionate on this topic, and I am not that passionate about this topic.

I did not write the Bankruptcy laws, they have been in place for many, many years..Chapter 7, Chapter 11, and Chapter 13.

link to Chapter 11 ( I read in a previous post that the Fountain Bankrupcty was Chapter 11, maybe this will help some of the members of this website understand what is going on in Bankruptcy law and rules).

http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/usc.cgi?ACTION=BROWSE&title=11usc

And to answer your question "have I ever had to be responsible for something?" Yes, I was convicted of DWI (drunk driving). And to answer your other question, " have I had anybody default on me?" I have had many a client not pay me in full (or at all), and I got over it. It was the risk of doing business. And since you typed Jesus, I do believe in God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit. I am a forgiving type of guy (I am a Christian/Catholic).

I get the impression that even if Fountain was not in Bankruptcy your opinion and comments of him would remain the same, you just seem very angry. We are all entitled to our opinion(s), and my opinion on this matter is different from your opinion. I will not engage in a debate/argument over Reggie Fountain and or Fountain Boats, it is not that important to me. Watching the Eagles and Phillies play today and tonight is important to me.

Have a good day, I will not respond after this post, PM me if you have further questions or comments regarding my response. Stephen

I'm taking this a little off topic, but.....


SInce you understand bankruptcy law, and I thought I did, were both bankruptcies handled by Obama's group illegal under the current law as far as secured creditors getting the shaft, the reorganization of GM to reward a selected few by linking them with the "New" GM but link all the non-union suppliers to the "Old" GM which has very few valuble assetts. And the same with Chrysler???

 

[Smarty]

I'm taking this a little off topic, but.....


SInce you understand bankruptcy law, and I thought I did, were both bankruptcies handled by Obama's group illegal under the current law as far as secured creditors getting the shaft, the reorganization of GM to reward a selected few by linking them with the "New" GM but link all the non-union suppliers to the "Old" GM which has very few valuble assetts. And the same with Chrysler???

Ratickle,

I do not fully understand the Bankruptcy Law, I only know were to find the answers (ie. legal research). Bankruptcy Law practioners usually just specialize in that area. I did not take Bankruptcy in law school, but I have a general understanding of the overall rules, and did take a Secured Transactions course in law school (UCC and non-UCC transactions).

Creditors are paid in the order that their security interest(s) are filed. Creditor "B" is not supposed to be given subjective preferential treatment over a Creditor "A" that has filed an interest in security ahead of the Creditor "B" (Purchase money security interest). Now as the Obama an illegality, I will not touch that, I just don't know all the facts, and, again, I will defer to lawyer who practices bakruptcy law. This is my simplistic understanding of Bankruptcy law.

Now if your question(s) were about DUI/DWI, drugs, assault, murder, or theft in the New Jersey court system I could be of help to you.

 

[Ratickle]

Now if your question(s) were about DUI/DWI, drugs, assault, murder, or theft in the New Jersey court system I could be of help to you.

I thjink you're looking for Stecz there.....:sifone:

 

[Smarty]

I thjink you're looking for Stecz there.....:sifone:

Now that made me laugh, good one...:rofl:

 

[Toasty]

Smarty, as always, tame and well put. This man has knowledge, read on and possibly learn something.

Hope you are doing well and new clients continue to pay!
C

 

[Steve 1]

The Kenyan Obama threw Contract law, which is the basis of capitalism out the dam window it is like the Wild West or Chicago.

 

[Sean Stinson]

Very well put.
Thank you Matt

Dude that was so well put!!!!! And hopefully a wake up call to everyone....like I said love him or hate him he has made significant contributions to the offshore world!!!!!

 

[Bgchuby01]

Sean, just like your buddy Scott

 

[Sean Stinson]

Not hardly pal!!!

 

[Sean Stinson]

The Kenyan Obama threw Contract law, which is the basis of capitalism out the dam window it is like the Wild West or Chicago.

Tombstone is resurrecting itself!!! :sifone::sifone:

 

[Smarty]

Dude that was so well put!!!!! And hopefully a wake up call to everyone....like I said love him or hate him he has made significant contributions to the offshore world!!!!!

Yes he did make significant contributions to the offshore world, from that Excalibur Executioner to the 33' Fountain was a game changer (the step bottom 170 mph+ boat is a story in itself). Fountain, in the early years, made the other V-bottom manufacturers step up their game. My father had that 27' Magnum in the late 1980's and the boat model that was out there that was consistently fast was a 33' Fountain; we raced more 33' Fountains (and 35' Fountains) than any other boat. There were fast Apaches, Sutphens, and Cigarettes, but they weren't as many as the 33' Fountain. That was a true 74 mph with 420hp/TRS, and when those Troy Dennis 509 cu.in blower motors started showing up in the 33' Fountains (at least here in the northeast) that was one helluva boat.

It was pretty clear for many years, Fountains were the boat to beat on race day. Art Lilly and that 33' Fountain "Heartbeat", up to the current crop of step-bottom hot-rods. Facts are facts. There are just too many "haters." Reggie was nice to me when I met him, as was Mr. Porter from Formula, and Craig Barrie of Cigarette (they used to take time to speak with me and my father at the New York Boat show, and or races). Paul Fiore was not pleasant at all one year at the NY boat show, but I would not bad-mouth his boats, I think he built some great boats. I guess the bottomline is this, you may not like the personality, but the product made by that same personality may be outstanding...My $.02

In fact,the cost of floor space at the NYC boat show was ridiculous, and every year we went there Craig Barrie spent tons of time bull****ting with my father and I, and I did appreciate that since we were not true sales prospects for that show. Kevin from Progression was the same way. Time lost chatting with us was not money well spent consdiering the cost of floor space at the show, but goodwill goes along way and I recognize that.

Reggie was equally pleasant to me when I met him.

 

[Bgchuby01]

Craig Barrie is a class act.

 

[THEJOKER]

Yes he did make significant contributions to the offshore world, from that Excalibur Executioner to the 33' Fountain was a game changer (the step bottom 170 mph+ boat is a story in itself). Fountain, in the early years, made the other V-bottom manufacturers step up their game. My father had that 27' Magnum in the late 1980's and the boat model that was out there that was consistently fast was a 33' Fountain; we raced more 33' Fountains (and 35' Fountains) than any other boat. There were fast Apaches, Sutphens, and Cigarettes, but they weren't as many as the 33' Fountain. That was a true 74 mph with 420hp/TRS, and when those Troy Dennis 509 cu.in blower motors started showing up in the 33' Fountains (at least here in the northeast) that was one helluva boat.

It was pretty clear for many years, Fountains were the boat to beat on race day. Art Lilly and that 33' Fountain "Heartbeat", up to the current crop of step-bottom hot-rods. Facts are facts. There are just too many "haters." Reggie was nice to me when I met him, as was Mr. Porter from Formula, and Craig Barrie of Cigarette (they used to take time to speak with me and my father at the New York Boat show, and or races). Paul Fiore was not pleasant at all one year at the NY boat show, but I would not bad-mouth his boats, I think he built some great boats. I guess the bottomline is this, you may not like the personality, but the product made by that same personality may be outstanding...My $.02

In fact,the cost of floor space at the NYC boat show was ridiculous, and every year we went there Craig Barrie spent tons of time bull****ting with my father and I, and I did appreciate that since we were not true sales prospects for that show. Kevin from Progression was the same way. Time lost chatting with us was not money well spent consdiering the cost of floor space at the show, but goodwill goes along way and I recognize that.

Reggie was equally pleasant to me when I met him.

And you own a 34 Phantom....another class act Will Smith. Can we throw his name in here somewhere? He seems so deserving of the mention.

 

[Smarty]

And yes, Will Smith has been very good to the Jones Family. My father used to bull**** with Will Smith about Phantom boats many years which led to my father buying a used 34'. Will put this 34' back together after my father's passing (and Innovation Marine on the motor end). He is a nice and pleasant guy to deal with, and I would have him build me another boat if i could afford it, which I cannot at this point. He was good to me (and good to my mother in regards to the Phantom more importantly).

My philosphy on spending money is simple, I buy or do business with people who treat you right. I don't care if vendor B has equal product or service at a lower cost than vendor A, if vendor A is my guy, takes care of me, treats me with respect, and genuinely seems to care about the outcome and or service then that is who I do business with, it is not all about price. I was in sales for many years before becoming an attorney. Treat people the way you want to be treated.. I will not buy from a person or company who treats me rudely, or just doesn't give a sh*t.