Right Time for Cockpit Safety Review?

[audacity]

the more you crash the more at ease you are with it.
the more time you spend under water the more at ease you are with it.
i like the light idea. i will have that tactical helmet light next time i'm in the boat. i have never had a problem sinking. but, i have had some issues seeing inside the hull checking it's integrity as it is sinking. i am sure there would have been lighting issues in the black cockpit upside down and underwater though.

 

[H2O Full Throttle]

the more you crash the more at ease you are with it.
the more time you spend under water the more at ease you are with it.

- Sounds like Steve Curtis's motto :ack2:

Seriously, I just got back from Doha, Qatar for the opening round of the Class 1 series and the safety aspect is something that IS NOT open for discussion, obviously because of the speeds involved. It doesnt matter if you have all the money like Victory or Qatar or the lower budget teams like Giorgio they want to come home at the end of the race. A classic example of the safety aspect was the crash of Qatar 96 with Sheikh Hassan and Curtis in Doha last year. This was a BIG off and they walked away from it. Hassan said that had safety not been a priority for the Class 1 teams then they prob wouldnt be here now.

All the rules from what I gather come under WPPA and their technical team as they run Class 1 and X Cat for IOTA. Rory Power who is their technical director would be a good one to include on any such panel regarding safety. I like what Randy and Gary have done with the MTI cockpits as well as what John has done with the Mystics. I will try and get some shots of the inside of the Class 1 boats and post them here. Maybe members here could post their thoughts on what they see, and what could be improved.

I saw someones post about the F-16 cockpits and their safety, well from someone who lost a good friend over the Avon Range in central Florida in an F-16 to a birdstrike I beg to differ. Yes they are designed to take a small bird but my good friend Sammy De'Angelis was low level and hit a big bird, smahsed the canopy and killed him instantly.

Safety is also starting to gain a good foothold in the smaller boats, especially in X Cat. One of their guys is still in hospital in Dubai and not in a good way, dont even know if he will make it, because of an accident there. Ryan will know who I am referring to, it was the boat from Abu Dhabi. As someone suggested why not have an offshore racing safety summit, combined with one of the Class 1 races where everyone who wanted to be part of a working party or have an input could attend.

I have seen what Haggin does to look after Scotty and Marc and what he has spent on their safety you could feed a small country, but you know what who cares, life is too short and too precious to lose because someone used 1/8th inch thick whatever instead of 1/4 inch think whatever.

Anyway I think this is a great thread and worthy of a sticky to keep it at the top. I have posted the Qatar 96 sequence for food for thought and will try and collect pics of cockpits and safety areas of the boats for discussion here.

Cheer

Ned

 

[H2O Full Throttle]

Rest of sequence.

 

[H2O Full Throttle]

Last Ones.

 

[audacity]

blowing over scrubs a TON of speed. Class 1 seems to have this more than the type of crashing we have here...be it super cat L to super cat.

the more ideas the better when it come to safety.

 

[Sean H]

Class 1 does a lot right, but not crazy about the hatch latching mechanism though...

 

[Offshore Ginger]

In the 12 boat thread, the discussion turned heavily to safety of design and overall driver protection. Is this the time to do a review?

In that thread, Steve David discussed at length the issues with Unlimited cockpit safety and invited some to visit their facilities.

John Cosker invited some to visit his facilities and is discussing improvements and changes with his teams.

Scotty talked about working with Dave Vilwock on safety with their Geico team.

Joe talked about the work their JBS team is doing with Mystic as well.

George Linder worked with the UIM teams and other on the lavin guidelines. Should we try to pull him into this and see if an overall review of his guidelines are warranted?

It seems to me, looking in from the outside, this is a very opportune time for this and it would be a fairly simple thing with email and fax's to accomplish. The loss of a couple people last year has bothered me since.

What do you guys think? Should we try?

Racing is racing and there will always be a risk no matter what . Ratickle , have you ever been out to Skater , just curious ?

 

[audacity]

Once again on the road for the next 24 hours. Be back at mystic soon! Anyone can call me on my cell 7341635-1697 willing to help me make the sport safer. I got nothing but time right now! And you can post what we talk about. I am all over the road using my iPhone! Cheers

 

[Sean Stinson]

Once again on the road for the next 24 hours. Be back at mystic soon! Anyone can call me on my cell 7341635-1697 willing to help me make the sport safer. I got nothing but time right now! And you can post what we talk about. I am all over the road using my iPhone! Cheers

Mad Max the Road Warrior....I am going to sneek into Mystic and sticker that on your side of the boat!!!!:26::26::26::sifone::sifone:

 

[H2O Full Throttle]

hey guys, just had a thought and not even sure it is possible. Is there anyway to put any sort of deflecters on the deck of the boat just in front of the windscreen so that if you go under or major water comes over the deck of the boat it can be sort of deflected before it hits the windscreen, therefore reducing the force of it hitting the windscreen.

Just a thought.

Ned

 

[audacity]

a deflector one way becomes a funnel in the other direction.

reducing the surface area is the number one answer...how to go about that; there is many!

SS...sneak on in to mystic. i am done driving for the day; fog and rain suck at night. there is a $hit load of huge road kill that is obliterated on the e-ways around here. mad max indeed!

 

[H2O Full Throttle]

Joey - Was thinking about something like a triangle shaped device mounted onto the deck, not so much a funnel.

With regards to surface area is there anyway to further reduce this than what Mystic and MTI have done so far. Looking at the Victory and Qatar boats there doesnt seem to be a lot of difference between what they have and the US built boats. Would lessening it anymore reduce visability to dangerous levels. Wadda ya think.

Ned

 

[audacity]

you angle would be so large it would create another set of problems. if the canopy is laid in 100% structure(no bolts/no mask/no bra) then cut only to your eyesight. seats mounted first and start with a small cut then increase. vis only drops as u come away from the canopy on the inside. a boat canopy is built so a 5' or a 6' guy can see out without mods.
race boats do not need near as much vis as a poker run boat.

 

[phragle]

Joe correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds to me as if he is talking about a stuff. Unless something is built way wrong, the rounded lines of modern canopies will allow the water to flow over and around even at incredibly high speeds. the only failure there would be if the window material was not seal/fastened properly allowing water in to wedge stuff apart. The real problem I see is the major wipeout that rips the boat apart or slams the boat canopy first on the water. The other problem I have seen looking and climbing in several of the boats is lack of padding. There is some, but with my experience in vehicle crashes both on hiway and racing offroad there is not enough. It doesn't matter if you have the strength of a steriod infused ball player.. A 150+ mph hit your arms and legs will fly around like rag doll. I have seen people violently flip offroad cars at as little as 50mph and recieve compound fractures. and this is with heavy firesuits. you guys often wear shorts and t-shirts. a broken arm or leg may not seem like much, but with a compound fracture you are opening the inside of the body to the outside world. after a big crash there will be fuel and oil in the water. there is bacteria in the water and it is now entering your body thru the lacerations. That can easily cause a major infection than can easily cost you the affected limb. Having an arm or leg pointed in the wrong direction from a fracture and the associated pain will also make it much more difficult for you to extract yourself or for a diver to extract you. It's not just the big structures that need to be made of unbreakium and unobtainium that need to be focused on. $100 worth of foam and vinyl can be a very good investment. I have some piks of the inside of one of the boats I can share with you in private to illustrate my point if you would like, but I really don't want to post them publicly and put a team on the spot...

 

[H2O Full Throttle]

What are the rules when talking about drivers/T-men suits. In Class 1 as well as here in NZ you have to wear a fire proof suit and this is not open to discussion. Helmets in Class 1 are also two sorts, majority of the guys use open faced helmets but Tom and Pal from Maritimo both use full faced Bell helmets. According to Tom it is to protect their face from any flying debris should anything happen and also provides better radio comms as less interference.

Now I have seen the helmets and oxygen masks that Scott and Marc wear in Miss Geico and this has some great merits. Obviously if you end up knocked out you can still breathe until the divers get there. Now should this become mandatory for all boats over 100mph or what.

Joey - What do you run in your boat and is Miss Geico the only one running this type of system.

Ned

 

[Sean Stinson]

a deflector one way becomes a funnel in the other direction.

reducing the surface area is the number one answer...how to go about that; there is many!

SS...sneak on in to mystic. i am done driving for the day; fog and rain suck at night. there is a $hit load of huge road kill that is obliterated on the e-ways around here. mad max indeed!

I will catch up with you soon.....How long are you there for?????

 

[audacity]

think about the distance the water flows over the bottom of a step...not much!

adding something that chance direction of water flow will change the flow of air as will. even at speeds of 150mph, let alone 200, up are disturbing the air above the boat 50' high.

last year i started wearing a fire suit with the highest ratting. i have not seen one other person to wear one since i have. there are MANY reason for it. i should be MANDATED by the org. even if your racing a dux boat w/a 50hp(i have done that too).

us, geico, and aqua mania are all about the same safety systems...till now. we r changing things in this new boat a lot.

i am not worried about stuffing a boat...if those are the conditions; then we are not running 150-200mph...

have a very diverse 20 years of testing and development behind me...i can tell you we only have been and will continue to do so; make the best educated decisions for the direction of offshore safety. unless you are testing as system it is very difficult to root cause...

many of the canopy failures i have see have been from roll overs and there was a lot of hull damage as well. some, even have the deck breached and pulling the canopy up. if there is one screw in your lexan/poly you have created a stress-riser. i feel many of the failures are due to extreme flexing of the hull in multiple axis as the canopy receives a massive dynamic and continuous load.

 

[audacity]

well, back on the road again. feel free to call anytime.

 

[audacity]

phragle, love to hear or see what u have.! thanks for your input. all is welcome!

 

[MarylandMark]

Having survived,.... T2x

Just to let you know; I'm glad you are still with us Sir.

even if your racing a dux boat w/a 50hp(i have done that too).

I'm looking hard in to those right now- In my budget and looks like a blast! I can have as much (really more!) fun on a scooter than a 1300cc sport bike! JBS looking to sponsor a dux? :biggrinjester:

i am not worried about stuffing a boat...if those are the conditions; then we are not running 150-200mph...

200MPH and rudder failure, hook and a stuff? I really, really hope you never, ever, ever prove me wrong but it could be flat and a mechanical failure could happen.

well, back on the road again.

Have a safe trip!!

ps- I met you in KW when you were helping patch up your boat. You explained what went on, what was happening and so on. Thanks for being cool to a fan even when chit was hitting the fan!