Magicfloat
Charter Member
Moving pretty fast. www.tradeonlytoday.com
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Reggie Talks about Chapter 11
- Thread starter jeffbare
- Start date
PatriYacht
Charter Member
6-8,000,000 will buy the assets according to the article. Reggie probably has enough to buy the assets himself. I doubt if Brunswick will be bidding. They just gave Baja to Fountain in order to get it off their books.
T2x
Icon/Charter Member
We are getting to the point where there will be little more than crumbs for the skeletons of a few remaining boat companies to fight over. If you look at the fact that credit will remain tight in the consumer boat market for quite a while, coupled to the ever increasing number of unemployed middle class consumers, the near term outlook is quite bleak. You will also have an inordinately high inventory of newer used boats forced on the market by the inability of current owners (laid off, salary reduced, dividends cut) to carry the loan, repair, fuel, and upgrade costs. The budgets for new product development, race team expenses, sponsorship opportunities, and dealership/service shop sustainability are also in severe decline.
I guess the "Perfect Storm" that has attacked the boating industry and sport is still blowing with Force 5 winds.
T2x
Geronimo36
Charter Member
It's the same exact thing that happened with the financial and housing markets....
Loans were easy to get, people trading boats every year and the builders/dealers were giving insane trade-in deals to close a deal, prices of boats were insanely overpriced, dealers holding notes on boats, stated income loans to the hilt, people went upside down in loans after a short period of time because they barely put any money down but coule make the payment in good times, people were using the equity and equity loans from their homes to buy boats, mercury putting out $100K engine packages that should probably retail for half that, then the money gravey train came to a screaching hault after everyone realized there wasn't any real money, just on paper and the list goes on and on and on and on and on..
The writing was on the wall long before the crash.. It is happening in boating and it was happening in finance/housing but no one wanted to see it and everyone had their hands in the cookie jar....
wow, did I just say that... yup!
Loans were easy to get, people trading boats every year and the builders/dealers were giving insane trade-in deals to close a deal, prices of boats were insanely overpriced, dealers holding notes on boats, stated income loans to the hilt, people went upside down in loans after a short period of time because they barely put any money down but coule make the payment in good times, people were using the equity and equity loans from their homes to buy boats, mercury putting out $100K engine packages that should probably retail for half that, then the money gravey train came to a screaching hault after everyone realized there wasn't any real money, just on paper and the list goes on and on and on and on and on..
The writing was on the wall long before the crash.. It is happening in boating and it was happening in finance/housing but no one wanted to see it and everyone had their hands in the cookie jar....
wow, did I just say that... yup!
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Ratickle
Founding Member / Super Moderator
And housing isn't done yet. The report this month is more than 50% of the homes currently behind in payments and homes receiving their first threat of foreclosure notices are what was considered "Prime" loans, not subprime.
I just spoke with someone today who told me that there are plenty of boat loans out there and available.....for people who can legitimately qualify for a loan. Gone are the days of the business owner who is making enough $$$ to afford a boat payment.....but doesn't show their income.
:sifone:HPOffshore
Charter Member
If you can prove that you are loan-worthy(lender's yardstick)for the boat of your dreams, you can get a boat loan. But then, that particular qualified buyer has an almost unlimited amount of potential vessels to shop; thanks to all of the financial fall-out, like t2x said. The "boat pipe-line" is going to be full for some time to come.
Sunsation96
Charter Member
I just got pre approved to shop for a boat on Tuesday, taking my time after all it is a buyers market, but there is alot of people shopping but don't have the loan. I thought better get the loan first then shop. I would hate to strike a deal only to find out I can't get the money not fair to the guy selling.
Sunsation96
Charter Member
DaveP
Charter Member
Prices of boats SKYROCKETED faster than the space shuttle challenger. Prices are now and will be for quite some time..BACK TO REALITY.
In a 2000 PRA Magazine, there was a test on a brand new 38' with twin 500's. Price back then $225k. Today the same boat is $375k.
In 1995 I purchased a brand new Mercedes 190E for $30,0000. This week my parents purchased a brand new Mercedes C Class for $35,000.
In a 2000 PRA Magazine, there was a test on a brand new 38' with twin 500's. Price back then $225k. Today the same boat is $375k.
In 1995 I purchased a brand new Mercedes 190E for $30,0000. This week my parents purchased a brand new Mercedes C Class for $35,000.
DollaBill
New member
No friggin way you can fit in a 190E. I had a '93. Yours would look like a clown car.
I don't think so Dave. I think MSRP's are going to go up steadily, and Selling Prices will go up faster and higher. The free markets will dictate that lower volume will reign, and dealers will be doing far more build to order. The only good part is that used prices should rise as new boats become unaffordable. Many that strutted into expensive dealerships the last several years armed with risky loans and HLC's, are gone. I predict that when Fountain comes back, they will target the people that can actually pay for them.
No more funny money this decade.
Expensive Date
New member
Matt Trulio
Contributor
Gone are the days when a "credit score" means everything. Now, you have to prove real income and have an income-to-debt ratio that makes sense. I mean, why would any bank loan money to someone who is one bad day away from being able to make the loan payments? If it were your money, would you make that loan?
The custom builders such as Cigarette and Skater, as T2X has pointed out, are in a better position because: 1. Generally, their customers don't need financing. 2. They build boats to order and don't need to maintain the kind of work force and materials levels as a production boat builder.
That also means their dealers don't have to worry about floor-plan financing. The dealer gets the order, passes it to the builder and the builder builds the boat.
Floor-plan financing could be history. Dave P. could probably shed a whole lot of light on this.
At least to me, the big question is: Will production-boat builders have to adopt a custom business model? That means their dealers might have a boat or two on the lot, but for the most the boat you order will be built when you order it ... and prove you can pay for it. Then you wait.
I know we are a culture of immediate gratification. But there are worse things than waiting. It's not that bad.
What we know for sure is the high-performance powerboat industry will be forever changed. It will probably (OK, certainly) be smaller. But what's left could be a whole lot stronger. That's my hope, at least.
The custom builders such as Cigarette and Skater, as T2X has pointed out, are in a better position because: 1. Generally, their customers don't need financing. 2. They build boats to order and don't need to maintain the kind of work force and materials levels as a production boat builder.
That also means their dealers don't have to worry about floor-plan financing. The dealer gets the order, passes it to the builder and the builder builds the boat.
Floor-plan financing could be history. Dave P. could probably shed a whole lot of light on this.
At least to me, the big question is: Will production-boat builders have to adopt a custom business model? That means their dealers might have a boat or two on the lot, but for the most the boat you order will be built when you order it ... and prove you can pay for it. Then you wait.
I know we are a culture of immediate gratification. But there are worse things than waiting. It's not that bad.
What we know for sure is the high-performance powerboat industry will be forever changed. It will probably (OK, certainly) be smaller. But what's left could be a whole lot stronger. That's my hope, at least.
T2x
Icon/Charter Member
In 1955 I went with my uncle to pick out a new car. He let me think I was helping to "choose" the color. We settled on a "two tone" (new at that time) white -black-white paint scheme on a Buick Super (B-I-I-I-G Car) with various options. Then we went home and waited, with increasing excitement, 6 weeks for it to be delivered. Most cars were built to order at that time. In fact the build to order model lasted well into the 70's as I recall and dwindled over time.
The mega dealerships with acres of inventory came along and killed that buying process....... Maybe , in retrospect.... that wasn't such a good thing.
As Matt pointed out instant gratification has made us a nation of impulse buyers and short term thinkers........ I have frequently railed against the number of boaters out on the waterways who have no basic skills and lack appreciation for both the beauties and perils that mother nature can offer (or wield). Maybe this will be the shake out we've long needed. On the other hand, our population has become increasingly well to do, with more people enjoying ever more leisure pastimes ranging from golf to snow mobiling to fishing to private aviation. If all of those activities continue to downsize, we will be in the the throws of a deep depression I fear.
In any event life, as we've come to know it, will never be the same........
Pro1
Charter Member
Not to disappoint anyone but Fountain powerboats is not the only the boat builder having problems. The high performance boat business could look like swiss cheese shortly.
You can google info on the internet. Lastly as you may be aware, xyz powerboats is a....................business which in recent months has teetered on insolvency. Most important it is having significant difficulty paying its vendors and secured creditors.
You can google info on the internet. Lastly as you may be aware, xyz powerboats is a....................business which in recent months has teetered on insolvency. Most important it is having significant difficulty paying its vendors and secured creditors.
This inherently bears a negative connotation more often than not, however, I am beginning to adopt a more positive outlook on today's circumstances. Perhaps, and I'm hoping here, that these conditions will foster a renewed sensibility about the way in which we operate, and re-instill a time-honored culture which dictates that only from perseverance is success borne, and only with this honest success can one be afforded prosperity. Consequently, we can lay to rest this disillusionment that everyone deserves.
Ratickle
Founding Member / Super Moderator
Did you notice who the main controllers of our money are?????:ack2:
At the rate they are redistributing money, in the name of "everyone deserves", I think it may be just a litle too late.
