Ratickle
Founding Member / Super Moderator
So $10K and you are getting two to three seasons on them. Thanks
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So $10K and you are getting two to three seasons on them. Thanks
imco offshore
Competitor / Charter Member
yea but ,,i think they are still doing it for 8500,,,that is an old print.under a differant plan .
What makes a class affordable in offshore?
1) Reliability
2) As few changes as possable in set up
3) A higher return on your investment than another class
4) Having fun doing it even if you lose.
5) Not having it a full time job on top of your full time job.
In other words the KISS (keep it simple stupid) theroy. Think in terms of Factory-1 days. Show up with your best prop for the day. The average guy could get into a race boat and have just as much chance of winning as the seasoned racer. He normally didnt win but he had a chance. Most of the teams in the hay day were normal people that didnt own a marina or race shop. They were just people that loved boating and now had a shot at getting into racing with very little effort to have a competitive boat. You dropped down your 100K and you were on the course. Now even in our class SVL there is tons of test time needed and a great expence to set up your boat. I know that some say thats what makes them happy and some enjoy doing it. On the other hand many,many more people would love to race but dont have the time,money or desire to spend it testing to race a few others.
Just some of my thoughts on growing a class with affordability in mind.
MD
1) Reliability
2) As few changes as possable in set up
3) A higher return on your investment than another class
4) Having fun doing it even if you lose.
5) Not having it a full time job on top of your full time job.
In other words the KISS (keep it simple stupid) theroy. Think in terms of Factory-1 days. Show up with your best prop for the day. The average guy could get into a race boat and have just as much chance of winning as the seasoned racer. He normally didnt win but he had a chance. Most of the teams in the hay day were normal people that didnt own a marina or race shop. They were just people that loved boating and now had a shot at getting into racing with very little effort to have a competitive boat. You dropped down your 100K and you were on the course. Now even in our class SVL there is tons of test time needed and a great expence to set up your boat. I know that some say thats what makes them happy and some enjoy doing it. On the other hand many,many more people would love to race but dont have the time,money or desire to spend it testing to race a few others.
Just some of my thoughts on growing a class with affordability in mind.
MD
Ratickle
Founding Member / Super Moderator
Steve Miklos
Charter Member / Competitor
You guy's are really confusing!
This is about P1 coming to the USA.
P1 uses a multi vendor engine platform on a power to weight ratio.
They have a new tool that would really eliminate cheating and help the heavy boats etc.
This would also allow more vendors and sponsors into racing.
It would get your 525 rebuild cost under $5,000 and allow guys to build similar with better parts for half of a 525 cost.
This mode of operation has raced gas vs diesel mercury vs sterling, ilmor stern drive vs shaft drive with a good assortment of winners Worldwide.
Unless you have a hot motor why would you not want this?
Reading this it seems you want them to come here and race under the current failed business model.
If I was P1 management I would read this banter and leave my money in my wallet.
Steve
This is about P1 coming to the USA.
P1 uses a multi vendor engine platform on a power to weight ratio.
They have a new tool that would really eliminate cheating and help the heavy boats etc.
This would also allow more vendors and sponsors into racing.
It would get your 525 rebuild cost under $5,000 and allow guys to build similar with better parts for half of a 525 cost.
This mode of operation has raced gas vs diesel mercury vs sterling, ilmor stern drive vs shaft drive with a good assortment of winners Worldwide.
Unless you have a hot motor why would you not want this?
Reading this it seems you want them to come here and race under the current failed business model.
If I was P1 management I would read this banter and leave my money in my wallet.
Steve
XtremeRacing
Competitor
Steve,
Does P1 confirm the HP before the race in any way, or just off your dyno sheets the racers supply???
Does P1 confirm the HP before the race in any way, or just off your dyno sheets the racers supply???
Steve Miklos
Charter Member / Competitor
With the stress gauge the engine is dyno tested all race every race. So any post dyno trickery fuel timing oil system etc is eliminated. Your output is measured during the race.
Steve
Steve
MOBILEMERCMAN
Founding Member / Competitor
Guys, From what I understand the goal of this season is to establish relationships and to participate WITH the orgs that are interested. Continue with your current preparations for this season. It is not a drop everything and come with us situation.
Again Support your favorite orgs.
Again Support your favorite orgs.
XtremeRacing
Competitor
Jim,
I agree from the conversation I had with Martin we r a long way from that.
I agree from the conversation I had with Martin we r a long way from that.
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Steve, If I was P-1 managment I would be excited that teams are even talking about it coming to the USA and its a year and a halph away. I guess its how you look at it. No one knows what the rules for P-1 in the USA with new classes will be yet. They have rules they have been using for twin v bottoms and cat- X. In there proposed single class I dont think they are going to just open the door to any size,shape,HP,gas,deisel or drive combination. I believe it will be offered as a class that is budget driven but run as a profesional class with parity in mind. The single class can not survive in any org. if you open it up to deep pockets.
MD
MD
imco offshore
Competitor / Charter Member
steve i agree ,,we need to wait for them to make their formal announcement,,i think all this will shoot holes in it,and let speculation run ramped,, sit back enjoy your year ,and wait for the news,,,HAVE A GREAT NEW SEASON,,,
Steve Miklos
Charter Member / Competitor
Well you have to presume they intend to use most of their business model here. I certainly do not think they would want to try to resuscitate the OSS model that was lifted from APBA that has never made a profit.
P1 is a For profit entity.
If you want it to take hold the smart move would be to align the class with their current model so it is a plug in.
This would also take care of the 2000lb elephant in the room that none of you speak about. Which is competent and consistent tech inspection. This and the fact that Mercury seals are readily available makes the contest a bit farcical.
The maturing of the stress gauge to a usable tool in a race boat will have as great or greater impact on spec racing than the GPS had on P class racing. The ability to monitor actual speed and engine output 40 times a second puts the race back on the crew and the boats where it belongs.
From an event site they appear to only visit natural sites. What I mean by that are locations like Key West or St Petersburg that are naturally suited to accommodate the corporate hospitality side of racing.
If this can happen I would hope they would run within the current US operating groups. I really do not think we need another sanction body.
Steve
XtremeRacing
Competitor
Steve,
Do u know about how much that Stress Gauge system cost...The complete sytem a team would need ????
Do u know about how much that Stress Gauge system cost...The complete sytem a team would need ????
ILMORdude
Sponsor / Charter Member
probably supplied and maintained by P1...............
Ratickle
Founding Member / Super Moderator
As far as I know they are still in the testing stages and have not been required yet for races. I think in 2009 it was still the random tear-down rules and the supplied engine ratings from the teams through a Class1 certified dyno shop. 927HP max...
Marine torsion/torque guages have been used for a long time in ships. The new varible pitch ship propellors in naval vessels made them even more of a requirement. Several companies make the large ones, three basic designs. But those are for the slow-speed large shafts on ships. I have been completely unable to find out what is being tested currently as far as manufacturer.
Marine torsion/torque guages have been used for a long time in ships. The new varible pitch ship propellors in naval vessels made them even more of a requirement. Several companies make the large ones, three basic designs. But those are for the slow-speed large shafts on ships. I have been completely unable to find out what is being tested currently as far as manufacturer.
XtremeRacing
Competitor
Steve has a system in his boat not exactly sure what it is or what it does but i know he can get data from it, and i believe he can get it real time.
Steve Miklos
Charter Member / Competitor
We do not have a stress gauge in the boat but would like one. There has been a go on OSO messing with one for several years now.
Steve
Steve Miklos
Charter Member / Competitor
The last number I heard was about $3800 USD. In P1 Europe they intention is for the sanctioning body to provide it. Please bear in mind they do things like F1. this means you commit to a full season and have financial ramifications if you drop out.
If you look at how load cell scales have dropped in price these could get very reasonable over time. The way I see it we spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to race in a contest based on some flimsy seals that are readily available. If you are running legitimate the money for a strain gauge is money well spent.
Steve
Sean Stinson
Founding Member/Contributor
This is great news and can only further our sport to the next level.....this new plan would bring racing back on all levels starting regionally so how can it be negative in any manner whatsoever......I will be gearing something up to have fun with!!!!!
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