P1-usa

[Steve Miklos]

Yes, OSS offered a P1 equivalent class last year but no one wanted to:
a. Send their engines out to our dyno facility.
b. meet the Power to Weight formula. Most boats had big power and would need to weight more than 10,000 pounds.

You already have Power to weight in every spec class. Vee lite is 540 hp to 4850 or whatever your weight is. Vee is 540 x 2 x 8000, same in Cat lite and on up. What is needed is an on-site propshaft dyno so any engine can be used.

Frank, didn't SBI play around with one of these? Didn't it work?

Why does P1 want to come to the USA? Are they bringing the same fleet from Europe or do they plan to get some US teams to join?

What is the benefit to have P1 at a race site? Are you just looking for a bigger boat count?

More like 575-580 hp
Steve

 

[Steve Miklos]

I'll say it again. If they racers wanted to unify this sport, they could do it tomorrow. Banding together has always been the problem.

Yep! The racers love to have a plan B, so they can take their toys and go play somewhere else if I mean when they get mad.
Steve

 

[Steve Miklos]

It can be easier than that. I copied this from the Great Unification thread. page 55 #1094.

It is being considered for here too. There is a procedure for certifying power. The power determines the weight for that boat and power combination. The torque device remains in the boat and output can be verified at any time showing actual output during an event.

This will work. It would also catch fuel and other issues except hiding water.
Steve

 

[Steve Miklos]

can that device tell or be manipulated by differant prop slip #s,,,i understand it measures torque which means it takes a measurment between the power output and the end user,(prop) so if i run 9% with a 30 pitch,lower the x and run 11% with 31 pitch and go faster,???

It really does care about that much in a real world manner. It is simply measuring torque at a given RPM. If you were not fully loaded or had very small prop high slip or both. You would see less torque but so would your boat.
Steve

 

[Steve Miklos]

I would think a good machine company could build a coupler inside the extension box.

You could place it on the flywheel and use a spicer joint on a shortened input shaft.
Steve

 

[Steve Miklos]

From what I have been told and I dont know if this is the system but if it is your crew and the anouncers or who ever you want can see the RPM's and and data live from shore. It could be some great info to watch as a fan. You would know who was lifting more in the turns and what rpm you were running at differant parts of the course. It may be very cool.
MD

We have that now, it is not very pricey. You need the displays and such that is the problem. We actually had that in 2001.
Steve

 

[Steve Miklos]

Id like to think some engine co's will jump on board when everything happens. P1 does a good job of regulating hp's and monitoring specs. As long as you dont hide a mechanic in the bilge!! Lol!!! Ilmor has had a great relationship with P1

With a reliable power to weight ratio system any engine can be allowed. The emphasis will move from high cost sealed rebuilds to real world technologies such as:

fuel mileage
Extending torque peaks
packaging

I would put an engine claim on this out of the box. This will keep super high dollar equipment from pricing most out of the race.


Steve

 

[XtremeRacing]

Well Steve you woke up frisky this morning...way to much information lol
Have a great New Year my friend.

 

[imco offshore]

happy new year there steve,,

 

[imco offshore]

i don,t think the claim rule ever did anything but,,,let the lazy man with a lot of money buy the motor that beat him,take to his stupid engine builder , to tear it down and find out what he didn,t know...


I would put an engine claim on this out of the box. This will keep super high dollar equipment from pricing most out of the race.

 

[Steve Miklos]

i don,t think the claim rule ever did anything but,,,let the lazy man with a lot of money buy the motor that beat him,take to his stupid engine builder , to tear it down and find out what he didn,t know...


I would put an engine claim on this out of the box. This will keep super high dollar equipment from pricing most out of the race.

I agree when you are racing only BBC or SBC or similar. In P1 you have diesel's etc. A current GM LQ series SBC could really be the ticket here. But do you want $50K engines in SVL? The cool think is with this a guy could build up a junk yard dog (old hp 500 carb or whatever) and race on budget with little startup cost.

 

[Steve Miklos]

Well Steve you woke up frisky this morning...way to much information lol
Have a great New Year my friend.

Thanks same to you!
I have been watching the strain gauge concept and really like it. Previously this was too cost prohibitive, bulky and finnicky. This eliminates many loopholes and let's you see what everyone has on raceday during the race.

While it does not eliminate manufacturers it is also not dependant on them either.
Steve

 

[Steve Miklos]

Happy New Year

happy new year there steve,,

You and your's also!
Steve

 

[imco offshore]

i agree ,we need and want all the racers to be able to race svl AND stay,,if a big money guy tried to ruin it,,that would run off the entry level guy..it,s real easy to put in the rules no small blocks and current marine v-8 big blocks,,,we can,t look into the furture and say what if,,,but we CAN fix it when someone shows up with a new widget..that is what happend with the big boats,,10 guys with money all built one of a kind cats and monster v,s and all got their own class...the answer is DON,T ASSUME,,ASK BEFORE YOU BUILD.

 

[Steve Miklos]

i agree ,we need and want all the racers to be able to race svl AND stay,,if a big money guy tried to ruin it,,that would run off the entry level guy..it,s real easy to put in the rules no small blocks and current marine v-8 big blocks,,,we can,t look into the furture and say what if,,,but we CAN fix it when someone shows up with a new widget..that is what happend with the big boats,,10 guys with money all built one of a kind cats and monster v,s and all got their own class...the answer is DON,T ASSUME,,ASK BEFORE YOU BUILD.

Or just make it where the others can buy it on the cheap. There is no reason for an SVL engine to be worth more than $25K.
Steve

 

[TYPHOON]

Whats the cost of a new motor with headers aprox 575HP
Mec 525
Illmore
Vortec
Cobra
Teague
and any others
Im sure there could be some deals made but what are the cost if the average guy went in and bought one at dealer cost for racing?
I believe the Merc is aprox 35k.

Any motor builders out there that might want to show case there product this might be a good time to chime in.
MD

 

[XtremeRacing]

Randy,
Isnt that what you guys have already, only difference is open it up to other motor builders, and not just merc like u have it now.That is something you guys can do right now to get the other builders excited in Offshore. Simalar to what was done in F1 when Merc, Innovation and Tyler were building motors for the class, seemed to work well.
If a builder has spec's he needs to follow it open it up to all of them. Just need a dyno sheet with the HP and torque.
In SVU we have Merc's , Ilmors, and Cobra's....Our class is open to any builder and that how Cobra got interested in Racing again.

 

[Steve Miklos]

Whats the cost of a new motor with headers aprox 575HP
Mec 525
Illmore
Vortec
Cobra
Teague
and any others
Im sure there could be some deals made but what are the cost if the average guy went in and bought one at dealer cost for racing?
I believe the Merc is aprox 35k.

Any motor builders out there that might want to show case there product this might be a good time to chime in.
MD

Merc is less than that with drive and gimbal. Retail may be that but I doubt anyone pays near that. You can buy Vortec for $11K with headers. I have one at 148 hours. I think if Ilmor still had any 575's they might be mid 20's. Also remember your selling a used engine, if you get claimed you can get a new one. I have budget so for me cost means less. With that said for the class to succeed you want the cost as low as possible.
Steve

 

[Ratickle]

Are there not key components of any engine, easily verifiable, that would allow the small backyard builder, but eliminate any chance for cheating? Such as;

Exhaust, throttle body or injectors, block castings, head castings, and engine controllers?

Or can everything be circumvented with enough money?

 

[TYPHOON]

Steve I agree keep the cost as low as possable is key for the SVL class. But with that being said skimpping on a low budget backyard motor for halph price will only cost you 5 times as much in the long run. Just watch many of the P class boats with there own motor builders that dont finish a race or blow them up one after another. WOT on a race boat at 5400 RPM is no place for cheap motors. We all hate it if we go into guardian mode but it has saved me every time. Im afraid in an effort to save money we could be putting teams at a higher risk of costing them more money. Just my opinion. On the other side it might attract more teams up front.
MD