My reality based approach to healthcare....

phragle

Charter Member
Healthcare is a quality of life issue. Once we are born, we have life, there is no guaranty of the quality of that life. The quality of life is what we make it. By nature, the only universal law, the fittest survive, the weakest perish. This promotes evolution and prevents overpopulation. Those successful in life can make choices that provide themselves with Healthcare improving the quality of their life.

If we somehow perfected Healthcare, curing cancer, obesity and all the other maladies of life and provided it to all, fed and provided for all the poor and starving on the planet... Just what would that do to the human race? The population would grow uncontrollably. The earths resources would be depleted, crime would soar and unemployment would be rampant.

Universal Healthcare is not a birthright, it is a privilege that is earned. Paid for with intelligence and hard work. While this is not the popular lovey dovey answer, it is reality.

For me, I am currently without healthcare. That decision, while being a gamble, was made as I pursue an education that will provide me with healthcare and a better quality of life in the future.
 
The elephant in the room on healthcare has nothing to do with the system that delivers that care to our citizens. To use a very tired expression, "We've met the enemy and it is us".

As long as we look to medicine for our well being, we'll spend alot for it and we'll never really get it. Personal behavior is at the root of this problem. And it's responsible for a huge percentage of cost. As long as people continue to over-indulge and take no action to improve their state of health, our health care system hasn't a prayer of keeping up.
 
The elephant in the room on healthcare has nothing to do with the system that delivers that care to our citizens. To use a very tired expression, "We've met the enemy and it is us".

As long as we look to medicine for our well being, we'll spend alot for it and we'll never really get it. Personal behavior is at the root of this problem. And it's responsible for a huge percentage of cost. As long as people continue to over-indulge and take no action to improve their state of health, our health care system hasn't a prayer of keeping up.

Haha. I noticed your avatar and imagined John Belushi saying this. :rofl:
 
Thank goodness for abortion

There are plenty of hard working tax paying "contributors" who have the desire to reproduce and raise the next generation of contributors that can not do it biologically. My wife's parents are a textbook example.:)
 
Healthcare is a quality of life issue. Once we are born, we have life, there is no guaranty of the quality of that life. The quality of life is what we make it. By nature, the only universal law, the fittest survive, the weakest perish. This promotes evolution and prevents overpopulation. Those successful in life can make choices that provide themselves with Healthcare improving the quality of their life.

If we somehow perfected Healthcare, curing cancer, obesity and all the other maladies of life and provided it to all, fed and provided for all the poor and starving on the planet... Just what would that do to the human race? The population would grow uncontrollably. The earths resources would be depleted, crime would soar and unemployment would be rampant.

Universal Healthcare is not a birthright, it is a privilege that is earned. Paid for with intelligence and hard work. While this is not the popular lovey dovey answer, it is reality.

For me, I am currently without healthcare. That decision, while being a gamble, was made as I pursue an education that will provide me with healthcare and a better quality of life in the future.

yes , you really need an education. you are a
 
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Healthcare is a quality of life issue. Once we are born, we have life, there is no guaranty of the quality of that life. The quality of life is what we make it. By nature, the only universal law, the fittest survive, the weakest perish. This promotes evolution and prevents overpopulation. Those successful in life can make choices that provide themselves with Healthcare improving the quality of their life.

If we somehow perfected Healthcare, curing cancer, obesity and all the other maladies of life and provided it to all, fed and provided for all the poor and starving on the planet... Just what would that do to the human race? The population would grow uncontrollably. The earths resources would be depleted, crime would soar and unemployment would be rampant.

Universal Healthcare is not a birthright, it is a privilege that is earned. Paid for with intelligence and hard work. While this is not the popular lovey dovey answer, it is reality.

For me, I am currently without healthcare. That decision, while being a gamble, was made as I pursue an education that will provide me with healthcare and a better quality of life in the future.

where to even begin. a simple fact is the better educated, wealthier, and healthier people are the LESS they reproduce.

so if you lose your job and health insurance, and get sick, you should die because obviously you are stupid and lazy.

you are only one accident or illness away from financial ruin, does that occur to you? i'm sure you will not burden the rest of us by going to the emergency room when you don't have insurance, will you?
 
Saber-

I know you're new so there's some slack being cut here.

We don't do that here. You have an intellecual argument? Have at it. Teach Rob and the rest of us something. Rip whoever you like to shreds with intellect and wit. But we're polite and respectful here.

If by chance you see people name-calling and such, it'll only be because they're good friends playing around.

As we like to say, this is our living room. All of ours. And you probably wouldn't go to your neighbors house and call one of his friends a name simply because he expressed an opinion. It's no different here.
 
If you lose your job and insurance, you have the option of cobra. If you choose not to purchase it, then insurance is not as high on your priority list as other things. You have made a choice and are subject to the consequences of your actions.






so if you lose your job and health insurance, and get sick, you should die because obviously you are stupid and lazy.

you are only one accident or illness away from financial ruin, does that occur to you? I'm sure you will not burden the rest of us by going to the emergency room when you don't have insurance, will you?

True, I have made the decision to fore go insurance at the moment while I am in school. I do however have friends that are doctors and nurses, I also work at a hospital, so I do have access to limited healthcare out of friendship and professional courtesy. As far as coverage for a more catastrophic illness or injury, I would either be dead or paying medical bills instead of buying a new boat when I graduate. Financial ruin? I was a medic for years... At $10 an hour I had no financial stability to begin with, and my back is shot from carrying 500 pound people up and down stairs. I made the decision to go to school for a career in a relatively recession proof field that would provide me with a stable secure financial income including health insurance as I get older and much more likely to need it. This was my decision and I am quite capable of being responsible enough to accept the consequences.

As far as stupid and lazy? I work, I go to a difficult school full time, I have all but given up having a life to achieve my goals. I work as an aide in a hospital wiping asses to put myself through school. If someone is unemployed, and chooses to watch Oprah instead of job searching and improving their skill set or accepting a job that is 'beneath' them, why should my tax dollars provide them with insurance?

In short, I am intelligent and motivated for success. If one is not intelligent nor motivated, the chlorine in the gene pool should take care of them, not tax dollars. Right wrong or indifferent that is my opinion.

It's human nature to be 'charitable' towards your fellow man. I was a volunteer firefighter for years, I volunteered on a search and rescue team for years, I currently volunteer my medical skills at races. If a man wants to help his fellow man thats his decision. It is NOT the job of the government to subsidize and legislate Darwinism out of existance.

I have no problem helping my fellow man to his feet, I do have a problem with carrying people thru life. The decision on who I help should be my decision, not the governments. Is it not enough that my tax dollars are allready providing foodstamps to the poor, providing housing to the poor, providing healthcare to the poor, providing cellphones to the poor, providing spending money to the poor? Should my tax dollars really go to subsidizing healthcare for able bodied Americans?? What next? government subsidized cars and gas cards? Government subsidized cable tv?

I must admit, i really don't undertsand the point your are trying to make here
where to even begin. a simple fact is the better educated, wealthier, and healthier people are the LESS they reproduce
Are you saying we should support high school dropout, drug addicted and obese people in their quest to multiply like rabbits? Or are you saying that its a bad thing that educated, employed, healthy people make a decision about family size that is inline with their resources and lifestyle? Or possibly that if we simply give everyone a college degree, money and healthcare, that it will equate to fewer OctoMom's and knocked up crack whores? You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink, Subsidizing and surrounding him with 400 cases of Aquafina is not going to make him any more likely to drink.




Disclaimer: this entire reply was done entirely with free thinking from my own mind. There is no cut and paste. :sifone:
 
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There are plenty of hard working tax paying "contributors" who have the desire to reproduce and raise the next generation of contributors that can not do it biologically. My wife's parents are a textbook example.:)


And for their efforts, they were rewarded with a binge drinking powerboater who frolics with penguins.... :cheers2:
 
badda-bing!

I still think every one should be covered to some extent for catastrophic events. $146/mo per our resident health insurance SME (subject matter expert), in this example only; your results may vary:

http://seriousoffshore.com/forums/showpost.php?p=414165&postcount=28

My soon to be wife is a Nurse Practitioner and I do the computer system and phones for her boss. I don't need health care for a runny nose, she treats me or he does or whatever for free. I do need it in case some thing serious happens.
 
The argument on the other side is that normally healthy people will begin to neglect things like basic checkups. Perfectly healthy women who take good care of themselves still succumb to things like breast cancer. If you've got to shell out $800 bucks out of your own pocket every year, I wonder how many people will just skip it and end up with a lethal disease as a result?
 
In the world we live in today health care is a real problem for real people. I can relate to Rob's position. In December of 2008 I was a sales and F&I consultant with a mid sized RV dealer in eastern NC. Facing very difficult times my employer made the decision to discontinue health insurance for his staff. Having never lived a day with out health insurance my first reaction was to go out and buy health insurance for my family. What an eye opener that was! It was just too much. I could not afford to do it. So after much debate we opted to go with out until things got better. Well things did not get much better in 2009, so I did the only thing we knew to do. Find a new employer. After a lengthy search I landed in Claremont NC at a MUCH larger RV dealership with full benefits and an over all better situation for my family. But I went a full year with out health insurance. When my kids were sick, they saw the doctor. When my wife was sick, she saw the doctor. We paid out of our pocket. Thank GOD nothing major happened. My point is these things happen every day to people who had no idea just a few years ago that they were vulnerable. So do not judge Rob. He has taken an educated risk for a better future. I consider him my friend, and he has my support. Good luck Rob and thank you for sharing your story.
 
If you lose your job and insurance, you have the option of cobra. If you choose not to purchase it, then insurance is not as high on your priority list as other things. You have made a choice and are subject to the consequences of your actions.








True, I have made the decision to fore go insurance at the moment while I am in school. I do however have friends that are doctors and nurses, I also work at a hospital, so I do have access to limited healthcare out of friendship and professional courtesy. As far as coverage for a more catastrophic illness or injury, I would either be dead or paying medical bills instead of buying a new boat when I graduate. Financial ruin? I was a medic for years... At $10 an hour I had no financial stability to begin with, and my back is shot from carrying 500 pound people up and down stairs. I made the decision to go to school for a career in a relatively recession proof field that would provide me with a stable secure financial income including health insurance as I get older and much more likely to need it. This was my decision and I am quite capable of being responsible enough to accept the consequences.

As far as stupid and lazy? I work, I go to a difficult school full time, I have all but given up having a life to achieve my goals. I work as an aide in a hospital wiping asses to put myself through school. If someone is unemployed, and chooses to watch Oprah instead of job searching and improving their skill set or accepting a job that is 'beneath' them, why should my tax dollars provide them with insurance?

In short, I am intelligent and motivated for success. If one is not intelligent nor motivated, the chlorine in the gene pool should take care of them, not tax dollars. Right wrong or indifferent that is my opinion.

It's human nature to be 'charitable' towards your fellow man. I was a volunteer firefighter for years, I volunteered on a search and rescue team for years, I currently volunteer my medical skills at races. If a man wants to help his fellow man thats his decision. It is NOT the job of the government to subsidize and legislate Darwinism out of existance.

I have no problem helping my fellow man to his feet, I do have a problem with carrying people thru life. The decision on who I help should be my decision, not the governments. Is it not enough that my tax dollars are allready providing foodstamps to the poor, providing housing to the poor, providing healthcare to the poor, providing cellphones to the poor, providing spending money to the poor? Should my tax dollars really go to subsidizing healthcare for able bodied Americans?? What next? government subsidized cars and gas cards? Government subsidized cable tv?

I must admit, i really don't undertsand the point your are trying to make here Are you saying we should support high school dropout, drug addicted and obese people in their quest to multiply like rabbits? Or are you saying that its a bad thing that educated, employed, healthy people make a decision about family size that is inline with their resources and lifestyle? Or possibly that if we simply give everyone a college degree, money and healthcare, that it will equate to fewer OctoMom's and knocked up crack whores? You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink, Subsidizing and surrounding him with 400 cases of Aquafina is not going to make him any more likely to drink.




Disclaimer: this entire reply was done entirely with free thinking from my own mind. There is no cut and paste. :sifone:


I agree with just about everything you are saying but, I have to point out that YOUR choice to not buy Health Ins is a gamble with MY money as well as yours. God forbid something bad happens to you but, You have to see that tax dollars will pay to make you better.
 
I agree with just about everything you are saying but, I have to point out that YOUR choice to not buy Health Ins is a gamble with MY money as well as yours. God forbid something bad happens to you but, You have to see that tax dollars will pay to make you better.

Its a gamble with my money and my future. I would wind up with a pretty good sized bill that would take me a fair amount of time to pay off. So I would be paying my bill plus intrest. How is that your money?
 
I would wind up with a pretty good sized bill that would take me a fair amount of time to pay off. So I would be paying my bill plus intrest. How is that your money?

Unfortunately, that's not the reality of healthcare today. The bill doesn't get paid in most cases. There's no sense wasting the resources on chasing individuals without assets. If you're a renter driving a 10-year-old car, the hospital spending ten grand (more) to get a wholly uncollectable judgment isn't a wise investment.

And as far as paying off a large bill...

A few years ago my father had a severe headache. He went to the local hospital. A few hours and an expensive helicopter ride later he was in a major medical center in an induced coma in the ICU, being treated for an aneurism. He was there for three weeks and another in step-down. Another month of in-patient therapy ensued. His total bill was almost $650K. His out-of-pocket was $100. He was 71 and had under $100K in total assets. Even if he wanted to, there's no conceivable way for him to pay that bill.

Let's take a different test case. Let's say you're 30 and single. You've got a good job- making $50K a year. You've got rent and food and such. But if you save not a nickle for your future and if you cut out the unnecesary, you can scrape up 10 grand a year to put towards your life-saving $650,000.00 medical procedure. So if you can do that for the next 65 years and the hospital is willing to carry your debt for 2/3rds of a century interest-free, you'll have them paid off. Or you can just do what everyone else does- you go bankrupt and your new life starts next Monday.

Hospitals aren't banks. They have to pay the doctors, nurses and other staff on Friday and they have to pay for the building and the light bill just like everyone else. But unlike the mechaic down the street that will push your broken Chrysler to the curb if you can't afford that transmission rebuild, our medical system won't deposit you on the streetcorner to die from a cerebral hemmorhage.
 
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