Merc 525's

[Expensive Date]

John that stinks is Richie still going to be able to do the Key West run?
I have thoght about what happened to him and others and if I get 525s on my nest boat will probably but a Stainless Marine system on.

 

[95south]

Tim,
the boat will be ready by this weekend, we will be towing down 11/6, drive straight thru, spend a few days at our condo in south beach then do the poker run thursday departure.

I will never buy a new boat with a merc engine, but the reality is, when we get a replacement for our cig, it will more than likely have a tired merc pkg. thats ok because I will turn it into a anchor real fast and start from scratch. also, no more external steering. I would rather not have a repeat performance of the close encounter with the sea wall at A C!

Back on point,there are a lot of 525s out there, what is being done to fix the problem.
is it the headers?
or possible just a bad design pkg?

 

[Ratickle]

Back on point,there are a lot of 525s out there, what is being done to fix the problem.
is it the headers?
or possible just a bad design pkg?

I'm curious to. All of the SVL's, Cat Light's, SV's are 525"s ? Do they all use the stock CMI exhaust? And, if so, how come they seem to do so well????

 

[Raylar]

I don't consider myself a Merc 525 expert, but I have worked on enough marine high performance engines to see a problem develop like this CMI header issue. Raylar has seen some of the same issues on the CMI Sporttube packages for the 496 and we have even seen brand new sets have leaks right out of the box! My thoughts here is that something has happened in the last 5 or so years at CMI and their welding control and QC such that headers are getting manufactured and put in boxes and on new HP525's possibly with inferior or cracked welds from the get go. With a little usage (vibration, heat and such) they either leak or start leaking early on and the internal damage to the engine is generally going to show up in the rear cylinders first.
I would expect CMI to pressure test every set produced from the start and stand behind Mercury and Mercury stand behind their warranty from the start if a defective set shows up and damages the engines.
As for boaters who own CMI equipped engines, my suggestion, pressure test them on a regular basis and do not run them when leaking. As for reversion or design issues, the HP525 headers seem to be fine based on the numbers out there working correctly and as for the 496 sporttubes, bad design, back two tubes go into the collectors on a upangle which is ripe for condensation and water rollback into the back cylinders. I think their new E-tops even though down on power are a better reliability set. Just my limited knowledge.

Best Regards,
Ray @ Raylar

 

[Sean H]

I'm curious to. All of the SVL's, Cat Light's, SV's are 525"s ? Do they all use the stock CMI exhaust? And, if so, how come they seem to do so well????

I would say most race teams take care of their equipment better.

 

[Geronimo36]

As far as the race engines go I don't put them in the same category as a pleasure boat what so ever.... Yes the racecourse is the ultimate endurance test on a piece of equipment but it's not a similar environment in my book when it comes to headers....

How many hours does a race-boat put on every season, (1-2 hrs per race and testing?)20 hrs per season max? How many hours does a pleasure boat put on every year, 40-75 hrs on the average with much higher numbers in the southern states? How many heat cycles do headers on a race engine have to endure, 2 per race (cold-hot-cold)? How many heat cycles does a pleasure boat have to endure, multiple per day/per hour?

It's not apples to apples in my book...

Besides, a number of race boats are running the tractor pipes.

The bottom line is a lot of people see what they wanna see and hear what they wanna hear!

 

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

As far as the race engines go I don't put them in the same category as a pleasure boat what so ever.... Yes the racecourse is the ultimate endurance test on a piece of equipment but it's not a similar environment in my book when it comes to headers....

How many hours does a race-boat put on every season, (1-2 hrs per race and testing?)20 hrs per season max? How many hours does a pleasure boat put on every year, 40-75 hrs on the average with much higher numbers in the southern states? How many heat cycles do headers on a race engine have to endure, 2 per race (cold-hot-cold)? How many heat cycles does a pleasure boat have to endure, multiple per day/per hour?

It's not apples to apples in my book...

Besides, a number of race boats are running the tractor pipes.

The bottom line is a lot of people see what they wanna see and hear what they wanna hear!

There lies part of the problem. People buy race engines and expect pleasure boat longevity. Yes, they are dependable overall.

Amsoil logged 4000 miles about 300 + hours on lasr years pair. Imco put way more then 20 hrs this season. Its engine has 3 race seasons on it.


Race engines demand a higher level of care. Not every shop care offer the need level of experience and expertise needed.

 

[Ratickle]

Do they use the same CMI exhaust?

 

[Ratickle]

And George probably put 20 hours on every month this season.....:sifone:

 

[Pete B]

Maybe be a lemon all together, just like a bad car. it happens with everything.

hopefully whatever you put in next will give you many hrs of boating enjoyment, but if by chance they dont we want to hear about it too!

 

[Geronimo36]

Amsoil logged 4000 miles about 300 + hours on lasr years pair.

300 hrs @ 75-100 mph is roughly 22,500 - 30K miles, somethings skewed Jim. You sure it wasn't 30 hours which is closer as 30 X 100 mph = 3000 miles.

For 6 months I use my boat 2-3 days per week for roughly 3-6 hours a day... Race boats can't even run unless they have a permit and in some places during the week... I could be wrong but I think the hours are skewed a bit.

 

[Geronimo36]

There lies part of the problem. People buy race engines and expect pleasure boat longevity.

Exactly and that's what Merc is selling the public so the expectation has been set.

 

[Ratickle]

300 hrs @ 75-100 mph is roughly 22,500 - 30K miles, somethings skewed Jim. You sure it wasn't 30 hours which is closer as 30 X 100 mph = 3000 miles.

For 6 months I use my boat 2-3 days per week for roughly 3-6 hours a day... Race boats can't even run unless they have a permit and in some places during the week... I could be wrong but I think the hours are skewed a bit.

I know I've seen Bob and Paul run for at least 4 hours of practice and then the race at more than one event this year. I don't know what they do during the week though.

 

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

300 hrs @ 75-100 mph is roughly 22,500 - 30K miles, somethings skewed Jim. You sure it wasn't 30 hours which is closer as 30 X 100 mph = 3000 miles.

For 6 months I use my boat 2-3 days per week for roughly 3-6 hours a day... Race boats can't even run unless they have a permit and in some places during the week... I could be wrong but I think the hours are skewed a bit.

They logged 4000 miles according to Bob and Sammy. I guessed on hours and was obviously wrong.

 

[imco offshore]

And George probably put 20 hours on every month this season.....:sifone:

i tested a lot you very right, and yes we do use the exact same headers , the rule says,,, must run engine as come from merc includes headers... as for heat cycles we test 2 or 3 props run 2 heats so our heat cycles are about the same,,, ps don.t forget pleasure boats run easy 3000 to 4500 rpm were on the rev limiter the whole time. so our heat cycles are twice as extreme,

 

[Ratickle]

i tested a lot you very right, and yes we do use the exact same headers , the rule says,,, must run engine as come from merc includes headers... as for heat cycles we test 2 or 3 props run 2 heats so our heat cycles are about the same,,, ps don.t forget pleasure boats run easy 3000 to 4500 rpm were on the rev limiter the whole time. so our heat cycles are twice as extreme,

What do you do to protect yourself? (The boat engine smartazzes)

 

[imco offshore]

And George probably put 20 hours on every month this season.....:sifone:

i tested a lot you very right, and yes we do use the exact same headers , the rule says,,, must run engine as come from merc includes headers... as for heat cycles we test 2 or 3 props run 2 heats so our heat cycles are about the same,,, ps don.t forget pleasure boats run easy 3000 to 4500 rpm were on the rev limiter the whole time. so our heat cycles are twice as extreme,

 

[imco offshore]

What do you do to protect yourself? (The boat engine smartazzes)

first we make sure the headers are tight, second i drain them , there is a little blue pitcock on the front of each header,, takes about 4 seconds

 

[Geronimo36]

I'm not trying to disagree with you guys, I just think there's a difference between race boats and pleasure boats. I'm not saying that like it's a bad thing, it's just different......

Talk to Bob Teague about heat cycles on SS headers if you don't believe me... It's metelurgy 101... Even Bob suggests doing slow warm-up and cool-down periods and that's exactly what was told to someone I know who runs his engines.

Bottom line is this is a systemic problem and I'm not pointing it out because I'm a cheerleader for Brand X.... I've either had them personally or seen most all of them... I just call it like I see it and what I've seen has not been very good.

 

[DAREDEVIL]

SS HEADERS !!!!!!!!!! - all i can tell u the secret is in the cooling.

if u run enough water volume thru them u will never have a problem !!!!