I'm having an ethical issue... And want some input

[DAREDEVIL]

What if you work for a Co. that you wouldn't buy the product they produce because of quality?
This past week, I "bought" from the competition because my own employer Co. would have made junk in comparison.
What do you do when you need a job, and have one that you hate?
But, you can't find anyone hiring in your field.
I'm looking for another job, but in the meantime, for a paycheck, I'm telling people to do things that are "in my blood and brain" wrong, but that is what Corporate wants, and they say it is "within tolerance", and therefore acceptable.
I'm so disgusted that all I do is produce something that is pretty (cosmetically), profitable, and is functional (just within standards)...
I hold myself to a higher standard of quality than this.
At times, I've seen where upper Mgmt has passed items that didn't meet standards just to make sure they went out the door.
I'm having a huge issue about this, but at the same time, I don't want to create waves - I need the job, even though I hate it.

I know how u feel,,,and all i can say is bite thru this and stay there untill u find an other job that u like and pay's the bills.

I did what u whant to do ,,and it was wrong,,i am without a job now since 2 years and money is not crowing on trees!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The boss pays the boss says,,,so do it !!!!!!!!:reddevil:

 

[phragle]

The boss pays the boss says,,,so do it !!!!!!!!:reddevil:

What is a job? simply a contract between you and your employer to do a specific task for a certain dollar amount. No where in that contract is a clause that states your mission is to second guess the bosses objective, critique his manner of accomplishing his objective. an employeer owes you nothing and you are not asked to provide anything beyond providing the service that you were hired to do. If your hired for a job and your boss says I will pay you $XX an hour to sell vacum cleaners, your job is to sell vacum cleaners. you were not contracted to design vacum cleaners, to evaluate and compare vacum cleaners with Dyson etc. Your were not hired to decide that the red vacum cleaners your selling would look better green. Your single mission is to sell the vacum cleaners and for that he will pay you $XX an hour. If your boss wants to stop selling vacum cleaners next week...thats his choice. It is his buisness, he can sell fish tanks if he wants. If he does sell start selling fish tanks, and your a vacum cleaner salesman, you are no longer of use to him, so he no longer employes you. It's really very simple, it has nothing to do with whats fair, good bad etc. It's about being hired to do a specific task as long as that specific task is needed. are you willing to do that specific task?

 

[Buoy]

Very insightful conversation from everyone!
I just know that what we're producing isn't the quality I would purchase.

Without being too specific, I'll give two analogies.

Say in building your Chevy/Ford... you need a 7/16" torque wrench at 60ft/lbs for a certain part of the build. You don't have a 7/16" torque wrench, so instead you grab a pair of pliers. Anyone that has worked on a boat knows what is going to happen.
You're going to chew up the bolt, but you'll get it tight, and it will be functional, and it might even be close to the 60 ft/lbs torque "within tolerance".

Second analogy
We offer a product that will defect under normal usage.
Using Rob's fish tank idea...
Selling a product to someone that wants a salt water aquarium. But, I know that the material it is made of will haze within 30 days due to the salt. So, the customer will bring it back, and I'll give them another one, which will do the same thing, and another 30 days goes by...
I'm doing a disservice to the customer because the salesman wasn't good enough to sell the upgrade. Granted, in my opinion the product shouldn't be offered in the first place, but that is a corporate decision.
To make matters even more interesting, Corporate will come down on the manufacture side, and the Sales side because we had a return on the product.



I spent four months looking for a job after we moved out here, and I was only getting about a 1-2% interview rate for the number of places I applied.
So, I'm very thankful to just even have a job at this point (even with a 12% paycut of what I was used to making), but I'm still looking.

 

[phragle]

Tim...to seriously condence what has been said... Obviously you are not happy where you are.. reguardless of the reasons, you need a job you are at least satisfied with or enjoy to avoid stress issues in life. That being said, remember the age old saying " it is easier to find a job when you already have a job".

I believe you have all ready made a decision, you are just looking for reenforcement/permission. Too many people are without jobs, being unemployeed is more stressfull then being unhappily employeed in todays economy. Look for a job that will make you happy, but at the same time keep food on your plate. Is there another fish tank builder in the area? Dont go up to them and tell them your unhappy or that your present companies fish tanks suck... thats negative. Approach them and tell the you think their tanks are better, do your research and be able to tell them specifically why they are not only better than the current ones you sell, but why they are better than the rest of the industries, explain why you feel their team is a winner. Think about pro sports.. if your say a good running back for the detroit lions...your team sucks, but you have a much better chance of getting picked up by a better team than if you say the lions suck, quit the team and sit at home watching football waiting for the phone to ring.

 

[Buoy]

Rob - no, I'm not looking for permission or reinforcement. I've watched people in recent weeks/months quit a job out of spite or dissatisfaction without realizing what it's like right now to be looking for a job.
If you're a mid-level Mgr. type guy (such as me) you won't get hired at so much as a Burger King, because they know that you are only going to be there until you find something else.
Jobs aren't easy to come by at the moment.
I'm not leaving my job without another place to go to.

I have to say you have really impressed me with your insight into this - that penguin guy too...
Here I thought you two were just goofballs:26:

I guess I just brought it up, because I don't like doing something that I don't believe in, and wanted to see how everyone else here felt about being put in that situation. We've all been here a time or two.

 

[RLJ676]

Where I work (GM) most people really look down on someone purchasing another company's product (drives me nuts personally), but it's a little different as it's a huge purchase durable good.

My ethics dictate that you support the company that supports you, as there are a ton of people out there that would love to have your job, even if it isn't your dream one. If these products are diverse and you have purchased some but just not this particular one then I wouldn't worry. If it's a big ticket item I'd be pretty conflicted.

We've been going through massive downsizing, as everyone is probably aware, and my suggestion to mgmt on how to choose people to exit is to go in the parking lot and if there's a GM employee hang tag and no little GM fender emblem, stick a pink slip under the windshield wiper.:sifone:

 

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

Tim , It sounds to me you will be making a change. Don't let a bad attitude take over. Continue to meet and network with people in your field. That is a lot easier if you are working. Keep smiling, do your best to create an opportunity for change both within or somewhere else. Keep time on your side.

I suspect you will feel worse if out of work or doing something you are grossly overqualified for.

It is only temporary. It is not forever. It is a test of character. You will overcome.

 

[Expensive Date]

Doubt you will truely be happy ever working for someone else.You need you name to be on the door.

 

[Strip Poker 388]

What if you work for a Co. that you wouldn't buy the product they produce because of quality?
This past week, I "bought" from the competition because my own employer Co. would have made junk in comparison.
What do you do when you need a job, and have one that you hate?
But, you can't find anyone hiring in your field.
I'm looking for another job, but in the meantime, for a paycheck, I'm telling people to do things that are "in my blood and brain" wrong, but that is what Corporate wants, and they say it is "within tolerance", and therefore acceptable.
I'm so disgusted that all I do is produce something that is pretty (cosmetically), profitable, and is functional (just within standards)...
I hold myself to a higher standard of quality than this.
At times, I've seen where upper Mgmt has passed items that didn't meet standards just to make sure they went out the door.
I'm having a huge issue about this, but at the same time, I don't want to create waves - I need the job, even though I hate it.

must be in the marine biz.I would find a job first and make sure its a keeper before ya quit.just bare with it until.Good-luck.

 

[Buoy]

Where I work (GM) most people really look down on someone purchasing another company's product (drives me nuts personally), but it's a little different as it's a huge purchase durable good.

My ethics dictate that you support the company that supports you, as there are a ton of people out there that would love to have your job, even if it isn't your dream one. If these products are diverse and you have purchased some but just not this particular one then I wouldn't worry. If it's a big ticket item I'd be pretty conflicted.

We've been going through massive downsizing, as everyone is probably aware, and my suggestion to mgmt on how to choose people to exit is to go in the parking lot and if there's a GM employee hang tag and no little GM fender emblem, stick a pink slip under the windshield wiper.:sifone:

Fully understand, and agree.
The item is less than 1K, but more than $500.
To elaborate further, I purchased from my wife's Co. I used to work for the same Co., but, she received a promotion that would have placed her as my boss. HR frowned on that idea, so I had to walk away from my position for her to take the promotion.
But, I know the quality her Co. puts out, and the sub-par quality my current employer puts out (exact same industry).
I chose to go with her Co. for my personal needs.
So, in a way I am supporting the Co. that puts food on my plate, and a place to sleep at night. I know, this gets complicated.
I hope that's clear enough to understand what I'm trying to say.

I suspect you will feel worse if out of work or doing something you are grossly overqualified for.

It is only temporary. It is not forever. It is a test of character. You will overcome.

Doing this is already something I'm grossly overqualified for.
You're right, it is a test of character.
Thanks for the words Jim.

Doubt you will truely be happy ever working for someone else.You need you name to be on the door.

I did it once before, and probably need to do it again.
I'm just not sure what it is that I should get myself involved in...
Something I will like doing, and succeed in doing.
As you know, going on your own is a big step - last time, I was forced into it. I had kind of a feast or famine moment, and busted my azz only to get it handed to me at the end. It was a great run for about 5 years, in the end I made some mistakes that cost me. But, I learned a lot. I'm actually learning a lot in the current job - both good and bad.

 

[Buoy]

must be in the marine biz.I would find a job first and make sure its a keeper before ya quit.just bare with it until.Good-luck.

No, not marine biz.
But, I did apply at Marine Max this past week.

 

[RLJ676]

Fully understand, and agree.
The item is less than 1K, but more than $500.
To elaborate further, I purchased from my wife's Co. I used to work for the same Co., but, she received a promotion that would have placed her as my boss. HR frowned on that idea, so I had to walk away from my position for her to take the promotion.
But, I know the quality her Co. puts out, and the sub-par quality my current employer puts out (exact same industry).
I chose to go with her Co. for my personal needs.
So, in a way I am supporting the Co. that puts food on my plate, and a place to sleep at night. I know, this gets complicated.
I hope that's clear enough to understand what I'm trying to say.

.

That makes total sense, and especially with the wife figured in there shouldn't be any reason at all to feel guilty.

Now you're just killing us all with what the industry is?:willy_nilly:

 

[baddogz28]

I'm so disgusted that all I do is produce something that is pretty (cosmetically), profitable, and is functional (just within standards)...

My girlfriends have never had a problem with the giant dildos your company produces... I'm just sayin. :seeya:

Seriously though, tow the company line till a better opportunity presents itself. What you do with your money has nothing to do with loyalty to your company.

 

[fund razor]

****! Now I am have to delete the post. It's gonna ruin my reputation for worthless uninsightful posts! :leaving:

No, it's ok.
Statistically... you're ahead of the game.

 

[MarylandMark]

Your customers are buying your product vs the other for a reason- cost vs value type thing. Your company fills it's place in the market place. If your product is 2/3 the price of the perfect one then I would expect 2/3 the performance. Quality vs quantity vs cost- pick 2.

Kind of off base but I just bought some door handles- the $25 I had to turn the handle 2/3 of the way before any thing moved, the $40 1/2 the way before any thing moved and the $60 ones turned as soon as I touched it. I went with the $40 ones because I didn't want junk but not worth $60 for perfection either. Kind of like I know they won't perform like the $60 ones and I don't expect them to- if they did well they would be $60. Like complaining at a $9.99 buffet because the prime rib is tough. Ok- so I'm all over the place on this one but I know what I am trying to say; just can't say it right.

 

[Buoy]

Your customers are buying your product vs the other for a reason- cost vs value type thing. Your company fills it's place in the market place. If your product is 2/3 the price of the perfect one then I would expect 2/3 the performance. Quality vs quantity vs cost- pick 2.

Kind of off base but I just bought some door handles- the $25 I had to turn the handle 2/3 of the way before any thing moved, the $40 1/2 the way before any thing moved and the $60 ones turned as soon as I touched it. I went with the $40 ones because I didn't want junk but not worth $60 for perfection either. Kind of like I know they won't perform like the $60 ones and I don't expect them to- if they did well they would be $60. Like complaining at a $9.99 buffet because the prime rib is tough. Ok- so I'm all over the place on this one but I know what I am trying to say; just can't say it right.

We're selling the $25.00 handle, and in a month it won't turn at all.
You'll bring it back, and I'll supply you a new $25.00 handle.
Corporate will *itch at me that we had a return.
A month later, that handle I replaced won't work, and I'll replace it again.
(you have now gone to my store twice for replacements, and you've spent the time or $$ having it installed).
Are you going to be a future customer?
Or are you going to determine that I sold you junk, and you're going to go elsewhere when the warranty is up?

 

[MarylandMark]

Are you going to be a future customer?
Or are you going to determine that I sold you junk, and you're going to go elsewhere when the warranty is up?

1 cent is too much money if it doesn't turn and I'd be going elsewhere and bad mouthing you all over after the 2nd time.

Ok- so I pay $25 and get 3 handles (2 that failed and now on my 3rd)- doesn't sound like that is a good business model. Even if they get them for $5- if I had 3 so far they have $15 vs $5 in the transaction. Then for every bad transaction they say it costs a company 10 customers.

Why not find a supplier or make if they make them their selves make them a little better for say $8 and do it once (netting $18 v $10)?

ps- you could never work for the phone company with ethics such as these. LOL! I get paid to do my job to the best of my ability; if they sell junk nothing I can do about that part.

 

[Chris]

Never compromise you principles, morals, and ethics.

This is probably the best post since this site was started.

It's you that has to live with it- now and forever. If it's not right to you, that should be your guide.

 

[sonicss31]

Voice of Experience

I feel your pain. I was in a similar spot earlier this year and brought it to the attention of corporate bigwigs and they sent down corporate lawyers to investigate and I came close to losing my job in the end. They said I was considered disruptive. Know this is no help to you but be careful because the waters are full of sharks.

 

[phragle]

The item is less than 1K, but more than $500.
To elaborate further, I purchased from my wife's Co. I used to work for the same Co., but, she received a promotion that would have placed her as my boss. HR frowned on that idea, so I had to walk away from my position for her to take the promotion.
But, I know the quality her Co. puts out, and the sub-par quality my current employer puts out (exact same industry).
I chose to go with her Co. for my personal needs.
So, in a way I am supporting the Co. that puts food on my plate, and a place to sleep at night. I know, this gets complicated.
I hope that's clear enough to understand what I'm trying to say.

so you left company one because the promotion would have placed you and your wife in a conflict of interest situation btween personal and professional.... and now you work in another conflict of interest position in a company that is direct competition to the first company...

and your wondering why you feel confused??