How Could Stimulus $ Help Boating?

BlackJack58

New member
Okay, I don't mean every member getting a check to go out and buy a new boat... :D but if "public works" money became available for some marine-related projects in your area -- what would you like to see?

Expanded public access? Channel deepening/widening? Shore redevelopment? I also think of things like the renovation of Miami Marine Stadium...

But another example are some lakes in my area - some adjacent bodies of water are just a few feet in difference (level-wise) - if a small, single stage lock or boat-lift of some type were installed where they meet, the navigable waterway area would be almost doubled and it would open up a lot of possibilities for further development. They could collect a toll, too

I can think of other areas (Elk Rapids, MI) where, if there was a way to provide some kind of access from Grand Traverse Bay to the Torch Chain, it would be wonderful. Though I'd guess some people living on the chain would fight it tooth and nail because of the increase in boat traffic. :rolleyes: But you get the idea...

What would you like to see? Be greedy.
 
Okay, I don't mean every member getting a check to go out and buy a new boat... :D but if "public works" money became available for some marine-related projects in your area -- what would you like to see?

Expanded public access? Channel deepening/widening? Shore redevelopment? I also think of things like the renovation of Miami Marine Stadium...

But another example are some lakes in my area - some adjacent bodies of water are just a few feet in difference (level-wise) - if a small, single stage lock or boat-lift of some type were installed where they meet, the navigable waterway area would be almost doubled and it would open up a lot of possibilities for further development. They could collect a toll, too

I can think of other areas (Elk Rapids, MI) where, if there was a way to provide some kind of access from Grand Traverse Bay to the Torch Chain, it would be wonderful. Though I'd guess some people living on the chain would fight it tooth and nail because of the increase in boat traffic. :rolleyes: But you get the idea...

What would you like to see? Be greedy.

The best way is probably to sink the entire stimulus package in the deepest part of the Pacific Ocean (or launch it into deep space) before the stink of the thing pollutes our air and navigable waterways. Taking a slice of this pork will only worsen the impact on boating's most important ingredient....its consumers. Spending foolish dollars on waterway projects while forbidding sensible energy sourcing, adding ethanol to fuel for no good reason, regulating speed and engine hardware as big government bankrupts performance boat companies...and their customers..... is a fool's mind game IMHO.

God Help Us All........ When Commissar Obama get's done with us we will be lucky to have wooden sailing prams in government funded park ponds to play with.

T2x

P.S. This is my new "positive" viewpoint. You should have heard me yesterday before last night's "good news".
 
The best way is probably to sink the entire stimulus package in the deepest part of the Pacific Ocean (or launch it into deep space) before the stink of the thing pollutes our air and navigable waterways. Taking a slice of this pork will only worsen the impact on boating's most important ingredient....its consumers. Spending foolish dollars on waterway projects while forbidding sensible energy sourcing, adding ethanol to fuel for no good reason, regulating speed and engine hardware as big government bankrupts performance boat companies...and their customers..... is a fool's mind game IMHO.

God Help Us All........ When Commissar Obama get's done with us we will be lucky to have wooden sailing prams in government funded park ponds to play with.

T2x

P.S. This is my new "positive" viewpoint. You should have heard me yesterday before last night's "good news".
What the bald old guy said...
 
ok... several million are aimed at dredging and improving navigatable waterways in toeldo alone, as it probably is elsewhere... Do you really think that money is going to get things dredged?? maintain docks etc??? please put the crack pipe down, the minute that money hits the city, county etc...those funds will imediately be diverted to the general fund to cover budget shortfalls. then to whoever your local mayors friends happen to be. the only way any of the money will go towards marine maint. and upgrades is if your mayor's cousin owns a dredging company.
 
Nothing, they can keep their money. If we want something done here locally, our state can do it without the federal help. Remember someone has to pay for that project. It isn't free. I am not going to make my grandchildren pay for some foolish government project to make it easier for me to run my boat.
 
Nothing, they can keep their money. If we want something done here locally, our state can do it without the federal help. Remember someone has to pay for that project. It isn't free. I am not going to make my grandchildren pay for some foolish government project to make it easier for me to run my boat.

Although I agree that the stimulus package is a load of BS, it's naive to say that the Gov't doesn't have its place doing something.

If it weren't for the Army corps of engineers we wouldn't be able to navigate jack diddly on the water. our entire hobby is alive today because of Gov't projects and money.

so, the question was, how would you like that money to be spent? what could make the waterways better, safer, more navigable, etc?

The only parts of the stimulus package I can agree with at all are the ones that deal with infrastructure. We need good roads, waterways, communications. These are the foundation of our economy.
 
LOL!!

They were going to dredge my waterway this year but no money to do so. Same story for the last 10+ years but this past year felt like they were actually going to do it.

45Sonic is going to bring his 50 Sea Ray in at full speed with Beak Boater behind him trimmed up to get the spoils circulating again so we will have a good channel again.
 
Tell us how you really feel! :D

Perhaps the concept of a hypothetical question was missed
; I'm not happy with the increased debt either.

Sorry--maybe it would have been better to cast the question in the light of public works in general, and not as it relates to this specific huge spending bill. It's just that circumstances got me to thinking about what would be useful to boaters...aside from the politics, which we can't seem to escape.

That said, they're not planning on "keeping the money." The pork's getting dished out, if not on your plate, then probably someone else's. :(
 
Although I agree that the stimulus package is a load of BS, it's naive to say that the Gov't doesn't have its place doing something.

If it weren't for the Army corps of engineers we wouldn't be able to navigate jack diddly on the water. our entire hobby is alive today because of Gov't projects and money.

so, the question was, how would you like that money to be spent? what could make the waterways better, safer, more navigable, etc?

The only parts of the stimulus package I can agree with at all are the ones that deal with infrastructure. We need good roads, waterways, communications. These are the foundation of our economy.

Problem is in many waterways around here, the U S by God Guvmint...won't let you dredge around bulkheads, private docks, canals, etc without reams of paperwork, fees and citizen protests....if you can dredge at all.....One wealthy guy got so disgusted he bought an old, very powerful, torqued up tug boat and ran it around in the silted up shallows behind his waterfront home....until it got deep enough to bring his yacht into his dock. This is where Government has taken us and it will only get worse. Let the government keep its ill gotten paper money monster and if you must have the Army Corps of Engineers.......privatise them!

T2x
 
Tell us how you really feel! :D

That said, they're not planning on "keeping the money." The pork's getting dished out, if not on your plate, then probably someone else's. :(


I Guarantee that the money will go to people who vote Democratic.........

In this order

1. Inner cities
2. Educators
3. Useless Health care "reform"
4. Democrats' sticky fingered in laws in the construction business under the guise of "infrastructure".
5. Media and public relations to promote "A woman's right to choose abortion"
6. Meaningless Government desk jobs...union of course
7. Neighborhood Activism
8. Global warming studies
9. Targeted spending designed to get Pelosi, Frank, and Obama re-elected
10. "Starving children" whoever they are?
11. "Abused Children"
12. "Under motivated children"
13. "Sexually confused children"
14. "Artistic children"
15. "Potentially Liberal gifted children"
16. Basketball as a career programs
17. Narcotics counseling ( How to safely transition from Cocaine abuse to Heroin abuse)
18. Bush Bashing
19. Anger management programs for the Pentagon
20. Sensitivity training for Navy Seals
21. Nationwide Signage with easily recognizable Muslim and Goth symbolism
22. Palestinian Scholarships to MIT
23. Conversion to the metric system
24. Courses on how to vote three times in each election
25. Programs aimed at giving inner city pets the right to vote
26. Replacing all references in text books to Christians, conservatives, taxpayers, service men and women, policemen and patriots with the terms "Neo Nazi" or "Racist".
27. Programs designed to redistribute wealth from those that earn to those that vote Democrat.
28. Lamaze classes for gay men who want children and don't want to feel left out.

I'm just getting started.......

T2x
 
ok... several million are aimed at dredging and improving navigatable waterways in toeldo alone, as it probably is elsewhere... Do you really think that money is going to get things dredged?? maintain docks etc??? please put the crack pipe down, the minute that money hits the city, county etc...those funds will imediately be diverted to the general fund to cover budget shortfalls. then to whoever your local mayors friends happen to be. the only way any of the money will go towards marine maint. and upgrades is if your mayor's cousin owns a dredging company.

Does Carty have someone in his back pocket for this project?
 
The best way is probably to sink the entire stimulus package in the deepest part of the Pacific Ocean (or launch it into deep space) before the stink of the thing pollutes our air and navigable waterways. Taking a slice of this pork will only worsen the impact on boating's most important ingredient....its consumers. Spending foolish dollars on waterway projects while forbidding sensible energy sourcing, adding ethanol to fuel for no good reason, regulating speed and engine hardware as big government bankrupts performance boat companies...and their customers..... is a fool's mind game IMHO.

God Help Us All........ When Commissar Obama get's done with us we will be lucky to have wooden sailing prams in government funded park ponds to play with.

T2x

P.S. This is my new "positive" viewpoint. You should have heard me yesterday before last night's "good news".

Ok lets have the bad news!!!!
 
Does Carty have someone in his back pocket for this project?

he has already raided the funds, they have been there for over a decade.. it will never get done becase the ottawa runs thru Ohio, then michigan before it hits the lake every time ohio is ready to dredge, nichigan isn't and vice versa. not to mention the dump built on the watershed up stream have leached for over 75 years so any dredgings are hazardous waste, then there are the giant lilly pads that are taking over. they are only indigidnous to here, so they are protected. to hell with the manatees, the friggin weeds are a protected plant species.
 
You can't make this stuff up!!!!!

Silencing the Lambs: Scientists Target Sheep Belching to Cut Methane
Reducing Gas in Livestock Could Help World Breathe Sigh of Relief Over Global Warming


By PATRICK BARTA
PALMERSTON NORTH, New Zealand -- On a typical day, researchers in this college town coax hungry sheep into metal carts. They wheel the fluffy beasts into sealed chambers and feed them grass, then wait for them to burp.
The exercise is part of a global effort to keep sheep, deer, cows and other livestock from belching methane when they eat and regurgitate grass. Methane is among the most potent greenhouse gases, and researchers now believe livestock industries are a major contributor to climate change, responsible for more greenhouse-gas emissions than cars are, according to the United Nations.

Gassy Sheep Add to Global Warming
2:06
Animal biologists in New Zealand are leading one of the most sophisticated efforts in livestock stomach research. Their goal? To reduce global warming by producing less gassy sheep. WSJ's Patrick Barta reports.
Plenty of people, including farmers, think the problem of sheep burps is so much hot air. But governments are coming under pressure to put a cork in it, and many farmers fear that new livestock regulations could follow. They worry that environmentalists will someday persuade the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency to seek to tax bovine belches. Some activists are urging consumers to stop buying meat and thus slow climate change.
All of which is breathing new life into the study of sheep stomachs. Researchers have tried just about everything, from changing the animals' diets to breeding new sheep they hope will be less gassy. They've concocted cocktails of clover, garlic and cottonseed oil to try to curb methane. They have even tried feeding the animals chloroform, which can stymie the production of gas if it doesn't kill the animal.
But sure as grass grows, livestock keep producing methane.
"We're at a very theoretical stage," says Simone Hoskin, a livestock expert from Massey University, an institution involved in the research going on in this grassy New Zealand town. "A lot of people think we are insane."
There was an earlier golden age of sheep stomach research -- in the 1950s, '60s and '70s. In those days, governments were looking for ways to improve animal digestion so livestock could produce more food for a hungry planet.
But as worries over food supplies waned, research tailed off. Scientists, as it happened, weren't all that thrilled about fishing around in animals' stomachs, which can contain up to 150 pounds of mushy meadow grass. "The stuff smells in a way you can't imagine," Ms. Hoskin says. "It really stays on you."
The root of the problem is that sheep, cows, goats and other so-called ruminants are unique in the way they digest their food. While that allows them to convert more energy from grasses, the process also generates hydrogen as a byproduct. Microbes known as methanogens convert the hydrogen to methane, which then leaves the animal through belching -- and to a lesser extent, flatulence -- and then floats into the atmosphere, where it helps to trap heat and potentially accelerate global warming. Humans emit methane, too, but not so much.
As awareness of the issue has grown, the U.S., U.K. and other countries have stepped up their research. But "there is no question that New Zealanders lead the world," says John Wallace, a scientist at the Rowett Institute of Nutrition and Health at the University of Aberdeen in Scotland.
That's partly because New Zealand prides itself on its environmental conscience. It is also, Kiwis say, from necessity: Their otherwise clean island is home to about 35 million sheep -- nearly 10 times the human population -- and millions of cows, deer and goats.


Patrick Barta/WSJ
Top to bottom, researchers rustle up sheep behind the lab in Palmerston North, New Zealand, then place them in a cart to be wheeled into sealed chambers to measure levels of the greenhouse gas methane the animals burp up.
As a result, roughly 48% of New Zealand's greenhouse gases come from agriculture, compared with less than 10% in such large, developed economies as the U.S. Agricultural leaders fear their livestock-heavy economy could be at risk if there's an international move to tighten rules on animal emissions.
Kiwis tried to get a leg up on the problem in 2003, when politicians proposed an emissions tax on livestock. Farmers thought they were getting fleeced and attacked what they called a "fart tax." The idea was tabled.
But livestock owners and scientists knew the issue wasn't going away. With the help of industry groups such as Meat & Wool New Zealand, they put up millions of dollars to finance a war on sheep emissions.
The group, the Pastoral Greenhouse Gas Research Consortium, helped assemble eminent animal-stomach experts from around the world. They included Ms. Hoskin, who had spent much of her career working on such topics as the role of leafy turnips in deer grazing. It also included itinerant ruminant researchers from the U.K., Germany, Peru and Sri Lanka.
Much of the work occurs here in Palmerston North, a town north of Wellington surrounded by rolling hills and filled with some of the most sophisticated animal-emissions gizmos in the world. Chief among them: 10 "respiration chambers," which scientists use to measure burps under different experimental conditions.
Pumps circulate fresh air into the chambers. Researchers rustle up an animal -- often a sheep -- from behind a laboratory, and then wheel it into the chamber, where the bleating creature munches on grass. The concentration of methane in the air then usually increases. The cud chewer is oblivious.
"They love it here," says Cesar Pinares-Patino, a Peruvian scientist who helps run the chambers. The animals "can look at each other and be comfortable." Sometimes they stay in the chambers for days, he says.
The boxes help show what strategies are working. But scientists haven't achieved a breakthrough. Many of the dietary additives known to reduce methane -- cottonseed oil, for instance -- don't work well in the long run; sometimes they cost too much or the animals don't digest them well. Chloroform additives worked for a while, but the animals' stomachs adapted and started emitting again.
Researchers are particularly proud of one achievement, though: Using genome sequencing to draw a genetic map of one of the leading methanogens. Team members passed around a single-malt whisky when they finished that work in June. They say the breakthrough should make it easier to identify compounds that can attack the methanogens so methane isn't made in the first place.
"We now know our enemy," says Peter Janssen, a scientist who worked in Germany and Australia before returning to his native New Zealand two years ago to do livestock emissions research.
Some farmers elsewhere in the world are bemused. "I applaud them" for trying, says Eric Davis, a cattleman whose operation in Bruneau, Idaho, has more than a thousand head of cattle, and hence plenty of gas. But "I'm skeptical they'll come up with anything we can practically use," he says. Besides, "I still have a problem with whether methane is a problem."
Mr. Janssen admits his work would probably be "fringe science" if it weren't for all the interest in climate change. But he still thinks it will generate something useful.
"It could be two years, or it could be 20" before a solution to animal burps is found, he says. But someday, "it will suddenly show up. And then you will have it."
Write to Patrick Barta at patrick.barta@wsj.com
Printed in The Wall Street Journal, page A1
Copyright 2008 Dow Jones & Company, Inc. All Rights Reserved
 
Although I agree that the stimulus package is a load of BS, it's naive to say that the Gov't doesn't have its place doing something.

If it weren't for the Army corps of engineers we wouldn't be able to navigate jack diddly on the water. our entire hobby is alive today because of Gov't projects and money.

so, the question was, how would you like that money to be spent? what could make the waterways better, safer, more navigable, etc?

The only parts of the stimulus package I can agree with at all are the ones that deal with infrastructure. We need good roads, waterways, communications. These are the foundation of our economy.

I am not talking about those types of programs. Of course the Army Corp are necessary and make our waterways safer and navigable. I am talking about creating an earmark pork project just to spend money. Unfortunetly most of the pork projects are not going for useful infrastructure, they are going to social programs that will only benefit the losers and loafers. Someone has to pay for all of this eventually. My taxes are high enough.
 
Problem is in many waterways around here, the U S by God Guvmint...won't let you dredge around bulkheads, private docks, canals, etc without reams of paperwork, fees and citizen protests....if you can dredge at all.....One wealthy guy got so disgusted he bought an old, very powerful, torqued up tug boat and ran it around in the silted up shallows behind his waterfront home....until it got deep enough to bring his yacht into his dock. This is where Government has taken us and it will only get worse. Let the government keep its ill gotten paper money monster and if you must have the Army Corps of Engineers.......privatise them!

T2x

I agree, it is a total PITA (I grew up living on the water and know how bad the red tape is). But that isn't the purpose of the thread.

I doubt there is a person here that wanted to see the spending bill go through. But, now that the money is going to be spent where would you like it spent? It's really not that complicated of a question to answer.

My answer: Access to the water. More boat ramps. More places on land where people can fish. More places boaters can safely beach and hang out.

In my area, 3/4 of the battle is getting the boat wet. There are only 2 ramps that work, one of them is private, the other has hardly any parking.
 
I agree, it is a total PITA (I grew up living on the water and know how bad the red tape is). But that isn't the purpose of the thread.

I doubt there is a person here that wanted to see the spending bill go through. But, now that the money is going to be spent where would you like it spent? It's really not that complicated of a question to answer.

My answer: Access to the water. More boat ramps. More places on land where people can fish. More places boaters can safely beach and hang out.

In my area, 3/4 of the battle is getting the boat wet. There are only 2 ramps that work, one of them is private, the other has hardly any parking.

Okay for purposes of pure "fantasy" I'll play along.

How about a study on the disastrous impact of ethanol in fuel?

How about mandatory seamanship courses for PWC owners?

How about a reasonable banking mandate toward consumer lending for the ailing pleasure boat industry.

How about tax credits for marina refurbishment including fuel facilities, launching ramps and restaurant docking resources?

How about removing State and Federal highway taxes from Marine fuel.....or.......taking said taxes and applying them to the launching ramp (and trailer parking) issue pinpointed above?

How about a program to eliminate the massive, foreign, commercial poaching on North American fisheries?

How about all of us learning how to fly, because we have as much chance of seeing that as any of the above?

Like I said...."Fantasy".

T2x
 
All of the river stuff will be run by the Corps of Engineers so they could actually get done if in fact they keep the grubby cities and counties hands of the dough.
 
If you think That Communist Bastard will let us drive anything but a small sail or a row boat you are as mistaken as the self-Loathing Whites that voted for him. The environmentalist are tied into the Rat party and Salazar the pinko just cut off our Oil Shale from development! So unless you can run your boat on Rainbows and Unicorn farts you are sorely out of luck.
 
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