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House passes health care bill
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Wobble
Charter Member
I am not aware of a universal health care system that has failed, which ones did you have in mind?
I would think you would call it a failure when your citizens leave the country to get their health care needs taken care of. Or when it takes 90 days to get an operation that can be done here in 10 from the time of injury.
I ruptured my Distal Bicep Tendon on the day after Thanksgiving last year. As it turns out there is a forum for the injury. Some of those on the forum came on to get info after being diagnosed. The clincher here is that you need to operate in less than 2 weeks or the muscle and tendon pull back which requires significant extra surgery and a graft of tendon material to fix. I did it Friday, had an appt. with and ortho Monday, xray and MRI that day. Was operated on the following Thursday and made a thankfully full, short recovery. While on the forum there was a guy from the UK. He had injured himself in May, waited 30 days to see an ortho, got an x-ray then waited 30 days to get an MRI. Waited 30 days to see the ortho, who scheduled his surgery 30 days out. His repair included having to take a tendon graft from his leg and he expected 1 year of PT before regaining full use of his arm and his leg. I was done with PT in 8 weeks. Now, was it life threatening? NO. But would you like to have 50% less strength in your dominant arm for all that time and then go through 2 risky surgeries because your health care system was failed? BTW, avoid doing this, ever, you cannot imagine the pain when that thing came loose. :willy_nilly::ack2:
Wobble
Charter Member
I have spent years working in the UK and with people from the UK. The only surgeries they typically have to wait for are elective.
I know two bothers there that both realized their eyesight wasn't what it used to be, one had private insurance and one didn't. Insured got to see specialist in four weeks verses six for the uninsured. Insured got laser surgery for cataracts in another 3 weeks (both eyes) uninsured got surgery on one eye in four weeks due to a partially detached retina and cataracts and then had to wait another 3 months to get the other eye done.
No cost to the uninsured brother besides his employment taxes, insured has to pay his premium and his co-pay.
Both are very happy with the results.
I just don't want the government deciding what is "elective". There are hundreds of horror stories on BOTH sides of this debate. My default position is that government control of anything is less than desirable than private control. We have had a constant expansion of the government for decades and no real progress to show for it. People are still poor, still unemployed, still homeless, and there is still some racial divide, all things the Government has thrown Trillions of dollars at, many times wastefully. Reform is to be lauded, takeover is a bad idea. And I will bet money that Congress exempts themselves from any "public option, fines, or additional fees.
catastrophe
Registered
phragle
Charter Member
Ted, so would it be safe to say that the government is like the economy, when you have a 'bubble' or unrealistic growth the bubble untimately bursts?? At what pont will it happen?? when govt expenditure exceeds GDP? as govt expenditure has exceeded revenue a longtime ago.... sooner or later something has to give in my mind...
No they were improperly controlled by the same people they gave Millions in campaign contributions to. Still are.
We may be seeing it now, the dollar is dropping like a stone, and our credit is being questioned and de-rated. The problem is if our economy implodes, it will take everyone else's with it.
Just what I want the same people to control my health as that do such a good job at the registry.
Has health insurance failed in other coutries? That is up to debate. I say it has when you look at the tax burden that is put on the people. Anyone want to tell me what the tax rate is in Canada, UK, France, Irland? There is no doubt in my mind that what is going to happen is that companies are going to stop giving help with health insurace and then everyone will be on the "public" option. Then we will see this costing us more then what we pay now. Of course there will be a large group that will get to ride along for free, is that you Jay?
Has health insurance failed in other coutries? That is up to debate. I say it has when you look at the tax burden that is put on the people. Anyone want to tell me what the tax rate is in Canada, UK, France, Irland? There is no doubt in my mind that what is going to happen is that companies are going to stop giving help with health insurace and then everyone will be on the "public" option. Then we will see this costing us more then what we pay now. Of course there will be a large group that will get to ride along for free, is that you Jay?
Not typically when you look at the data in the same way.
Yeah, but you have to compare apples to apples. If we are adding in all the 20 something thugs getting snuffed over drug deals to life expectancy numbers of course we come out poorly. Less abortions than other countries will bring up infant mortality as will the type of Mom getting preggers, a 45 year old is not considered a normal Mom in most other countries. To say nothing of drug and alcohol abusers that try to deliver instead of aborting as they might in a more liberal country. Less surgeries will mean less complications, more deaths maybe, but less complications. The proof is in the pudding, people vote for our healthcare system every day by coming here, across both our North and South border and by air and sea like all the wealthy Euros and Shieks. If we f up the best healthcare in the world, where will they go next?
Wobble
Charter Member
I had the misfortune of having to accompany a friend and his son to a level1 trauma care center in Luton in the UK. His son had passed out from binge drinking and got his stomach pumped for his efforts.
Whilst there the only people I saw were bleeding or seriously ill, they were quickly triaged and treated in order of need.
In a Houston emergency room you may see 3/4 of the people in no apparent distress waiting in the knowledge that they wont be refused treatment regardless their ability to pay.
Whilst there the only people I saw were bleeding or seriously ill, they were quickly triaged and treated in order of need.
In a Houston emergency room you may see 3/4 of the people in no apparent distress waiting in the knowledge that they wont be refused treatment regardless their ability to pay.
Even the Euros are abandoning the Euro. Who the hell knows what would happen. Well, I digress. I suspect Goldman Sachs and George Soros both do, and will profit from it mightily if the dollar takes a dive.
