General Motors Restructure

[Sunsation96]

Anybody miss Oldsmobile? It's not the end of the world. And we still build airplanes, helicopters, skyscrapers, and lots of other things in this country. And with union employees too!

You can still get parts, you can still get things covered under warranty. If it wasn't blasted over the TV day in and day out, you might not even notice. The economy sucks right now; it's happened before. It will get better eventually.

Great point not only did GM do this to me before with my Olds now they did it to me with the G8 two weeks after I bought it:ack2: Glad I could help them out

 

[Ratickle]

The politicians and the tree huggers are our countries worst enemy now. During the last couple of decades their agendas and policies have forced manufacturing out of the United States. The auto industry (including all their suppliers) are really the last of the large industries left in our country, I can't fathom what will take it's place that will give people a chance to make a living that will pay them enough to afford a modest house. The government seems to think it is important for just about every kid to go to college, I keep wondering where all the jobs will be when they graduate.

Well said Donna.

 

[Ms PatriYacht]

Anybody miss Oldsmobile? It's not the end of the world. And we still build airplanes, helicopters, skyscrapers, and lots of other things in this country. And with union employees too!

You can still get parts, you can still get things covered under warranty. If it wasn't blasted over the TV day in and day out, you might not even notice. The economy sucks right now; it's happened before. It will get better eventually.

I guess you by skyscrapers you mean large office buildings, with industrial vacancies just about everywhere the construction industry if you have not heard is WAY down. I sell to companies that support aerospace, believe me that industry is way down as well.

 

[Sunsation96]

What we need is import tax. For me to ship to china there is a 30% tax on the goods going plus freight. If the US companies had to pay 30% tax to bring thier china built goods and other countries that make stuff, do you think that the manufacturing would increase in this country once again. Sorry I my feelings are very string on this as I see friends and family being affected by the auto industry. But with a plan like this America would grow once again and be great. I know its not bullet proff but it is a start.

 

[Magic Medicine]

How many kids with degrees in useless things like Poli Sci are very good at asking, " would you like to biggie size that order?" I guess we will find out in the coming decade.

there parent should have pointed them in the right direction. don't blame it all on the kids, young people need direction from the piers and the older generations!

 

[Ratickle]

What we need is import tax. For me to ship to china there is a 30% tax on the goods going plus freight. If the US companies had to pay 30% tax to bring thier china built goods and other countries that make stuff, do you think that the manufacturing would increase in this country once again. Sorry I my feelings are very string on this as I see friends and family being affected by the auto industry. But with a plan like this America would grow once again and be great. I know its not bullet proff but it is a start.

It is another common sense law that will never get passed by the idiots who run this country. You want to sell here, you meet the rules and laws our in-country manufacturers have to. Tax, the same : Air Pollution controls, the same : water pollution controls, the same, : child labor laws, the same - etc.


I've said it for years, the playing field only needs to be level and we will succeed.

 

[sledge]

What we need is import tax.

That has been addressed so many times and every time it's a failure. Taxes are almost always passed on to the consumer. All it would do is raise the cost of things you buy. Even if manufacturing came back to this side of the world, everything would still cost more.

Yes Ms. P, i know all the industries are down. The only people making money these days are lawyers, drug cos and politicians. And when they've taken all we have to give, they're going to want to spend it. And people will get back on their feet again.

 

[Ratickle]

That has been addressed so many times and every time it's a failure. Taxes are almost always passed on to the consumer. All it would do is raise the cost of things you buy. Even if manufacturing came back to this side of the world, everything would still cost more.

Yes Ms. P, i know all the industries are down. The only people making money these days are lawyers, drug cos and politicians. And when they've taken all we have to give, they're going to want to spend it. And people will get back on their feet again.

Taxes are always passed on to the consumer. But, at least the consumer has a job to pay those taxes if the products are made at home vs. the current situation where over 1/2 of all consumers either do not have jobs and receive something from the ones who do, or make so little they pay no taxes.

There are no instances where you can point to an equally recipricating import/export excise tax that did not work. None.

 

[sledge]

There are no instances where you can point to an equally recipricating import/export excise tax that did not work. None.

Kinda defeats the whole "controlling an imbalance" idea if they're equally reciprocating doesn't it? But along those lines, like I said before, all it would do in the end is increase costs to everyone so where's the gain?

Tariffs and import taxes on necessary goods do little to curb consumption. It comes down to competitive advantage, whether it be natural or "man made."

If the entire planet were set on economically equal grounds, where no continent, no country, no company could make more money than another by producing a good or offering a service, then NOBODY would make it. If you didn't have the opportunity to make a profit, you wouldn't do anything. It would then be up to "A government" to decide what's best for everyone and tell them what to do and how much they would make.

Sounds eerily familiar to a couple places where that experiment is failing as we write....

 

[Ratickle]

Kinda defeats the whole "controlling an imbalance" idea if they're equally reciprocating doesn't it? But along those lines, like I said before, all it would do in the end is increase costs to everyone so where's the gain?

Tariffs and import taxes on necessary goods do little to curb consumption. It comes down to competitive advantage, whether it be natural or "man made."

If the entire planet were set on economically equal grounds, where no continent, no country, no company could make more money than another by producing a good or offering a service, then NOBODY would make it. If you didn't have the opportunity to make a profit, you wouldn't do anything. It would then be up to "A government" to decide what's best for everyone and tell them what to do and how much they would make.

Sounds eerily familiar to a couple places where that experiment is failing as we write....

You have that correct. Unfortunately, the only way to protect gains made by a country, from an unscrupulous country, is through tariffs and laws.

If the Chinese can use child labor, have zero pollution control on factories, use slave/inmate labor, have no SSI type retirement expenses, etc. Then of course it will be cheaper to manufacture there until such a time as their standard of living matches the consuming markets for their products. The only way to prevent that from occuring, is excise taxes and manufacturing requirements which match the government mandated laws and expenses here.

Example, you own a company in town A. Town B is 1/2 mile away. If town A passes a law that you must pay your employees $10.00 per hour and provide them with a catered steak lunch every day, and a retirement plan equal to 11% of their wage. But, town B has a company which does the exact same thing as you but has only the minimum wage law of $7.00 per hour, no lunch rule, no retirement rule. Who is gonna survive?

If your town wants to save your company, and the jobs you provide, they must pass a simple law that all imports of the exact same products you make have to meet the same rules or pay an excise tax equal to those mandated expenses. Otherwise you are gone, the employees are unemployed, and the town has no tax base.

 

[Ratickle]

That's what I mean by equally recipricating.

 

[sledge]

yes, it's a nice theory. The problem is, the reason the cheaper firm existed is because there's enough people that didn't want to pay the higher prices. So when the end effect is a higher price across the board, people won't buy as much of the product and eventually both companies fail.

 

[MattBMiller]

The politicians and the tree huggers are our countries worst enemy now. During the last couple of decades their agendas and policies have forced manufacturing out of the United States. The auto industry (including all their suppliers) are really the last of the large industries left in our country, I can't fathom what will take it's place that will give people a chance to make a living that will pay them enough to afford a modest house. The government seems to think it is important for just about every kid to go to college, I keep wondering where all the jobs will be when they graduate.

Well said.:ack2:

 

[Ratickle]

yes, it's a nice theory. The problem is, the reason the cheaper firm existed is because there's enough people that didn't want to pay the higher prices. So when the end effect is a higher price across the board, people won't buy as much of the product and eventually both companies fail.

Ah, capitalism.
If the product is wanted, ie Large SUV's and Pickups, but the market is controlled, ie CAFE Standards, the market will fall. That's what is happening now.

We bought low mileage vehicles, SUV's/Pickups because that is what we wanted.

Those who wanted high mileage cars bought imports. Why? They were cheaper and better ie, more value.

Why were they cheaper and better? Because they were made by employees who made less money, had less benefits, and had less retirees to support.

Why did the Big 3 make small cars that they lost money on every one when people did not want to buy them? Because Congress, not capitalisnm, mandated they had to meet fleet CAFE standards to sell vehicles in this country. So, now they will be gone or starting over. I am pushing for starting over.

Could you imagine where the Big 3 would be right now if they got to make only what they wanted to instead of mandated rules?

 

[Ratickle]

yes, it's a nice theory. The problem is, the reason the cheaper firm existed is because there's enough people that didn't want to pay the higher prices. So when the end effect is a higher price across the board, people won't buy as much of the product and eventually both companies fail.

You miss one point. They were both manufacturing and selling in the same market to begin with. Some political entity decided to change 1/2 the rules, not all. That's what happened here.

A political entity decided to create NAFTA and then give China most favored nation trading status. Rules change, no control.

 

[sledge]

You're all over the place...I can't keep up.

So NAFTA is allowing the Chinese SUVs to ruin our economy?

 

[Sunsation96]

It is simple look out for our own no more imports simple and very effective. We need to keep america strong, it would be a great circle 1. I make it 2. you buy it 3. I profit 4. I employ you 4.you have a job 5. you spend money that is how it needs to work and the only way it will work

 

[sledge]

It is simple look out for our own no more imports simple and very effective. We need to keep america strong, it would be a great circle 1. I make it 2. you buy it 3. I profit 4. I employ you 4.you have a job 5. you spend money that is how it needs to work and the only way it will work

One big wrench that stops those gears from turning: natural resources. This country simply does not produce enough resources to sustain the consumption that we crave. We HAVE to go outside our borders. Let's take copper for example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peak_copper#Production
I imagine there are materials out there that could replace copper, but at what cost? And at what availability? Just one example where we do not have a competitive advantage and have to go outside the great circle.

 

[Ratickle]

You're all over the place...I can't keep up.

So NAFTA is allowing the Chinese SUVs to ruin our economy?

Now that's funny......:rofl:

 

[Ratickle]

One big wrench that stops those gears from turning: natural resources. This country simply does not produce enough resources to sustain the consumption that we crave. We HAVE to go outside our borders. Let's take copper for example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peak_copper#Production
I imagine there are materials out there that could replace copper, but at what cost? And at what availability? Just one example where we do not have a competitive advantage and have to go outside the great circle.

Ahh, but that is okay. If we are the main consumers and manufactures of products produced with copper, then the circle works. But, you need to manufacture for the countries who supply the natural resources we need. Or supply them with the natural resources we have that they don't. Like fighter jets.... (or food)...